U To Shut Down?

[Rico]

Hmmm,

Well yeah, the possibility of one of the remaining three unions pulling a "Charlie Bryan" does still remain a strong possibility. I think that a misjudgment on timing is the most probable miscalculation that one of the remaining three unions can make, esp the IAM

I mean geeze, IMO the remaining three unions are already regretting that they did not reach an pre-bk agreement when the ask was not as high. No reason to assume that they will not make the same mistake twice, but you would hope they learned something so far.

Yeah, I have faith in the unions to do what unions do, and take care of their interests first, and those of the membership second.

But then I am optimistic, that is my nature. IMO as long as a chance remains, then a chance for a future remains. Be it in the present form, or a resurrected version, I still think this all can work, and that it is worth fighting for.

Just becasue a classic car has some rust, or needs engine work might make it a hunk to some, but a gem in the rough to others. Airways is no different, and that is why we havfe had the support of the creditors, and will as soon as the remaining labor issues are resolved.

 

[700UW]

Go learn your history, Frank Lorenzo brought down Eastern, not Charlie Bryan.

Frank Lorenzo was banned from the industry because of what he did at Eastern.

 

[WestCoastGuy]

You are absolutely right 700...I remember it well. And when this company is over and done and the history books are written on it, it will also show the total mismanagement, lack of eptitude, irresponsibility and ignorance on the part of this current crop of exec's.

 

[Winglet]

It will probably also show that the company officers walked away with millions of dollars in severance, bonuses, and other scams. Be assured, they're not leaving without their piece of the pie (and yours, too). In the chaos of a Chapter 7, there's going to be a lot of cash out the back door.

 

[Reservation Agent]

up

 

[PITbull]

Bless you. And we won't cross any picket lines, AFA or CWA.

[post="201343"][/post]​

And we will not cross any picket line of CWA or IAM.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Well yeah, the possibility of one of the remaining three unions pulling a "Charlie Bryan" does still remain a strong possibility.

[post="201903"][/post]​

Strong possibility? I would be floored, stunned, shocked and flabbergasted if it DOESN'T happen very soon!

 

[Rico]

Well, in the book "Hard Landing" by THOMAS JR PETZINGER, the author placed the Blame for Eastern's demise just as squarley on the lap on the IAM's then "Leader" Charlie Bryan. A pretty good read if you get the chance

According to you 700UW it was all Lorenzo, and just Lorenzo.

Hmm, I always thought it took two to dance... <_<

Lorenzo was banned from the Airlines, but the IAM has been voted out in favor of AMFA in some real embarassing and painful examples (at other legacy carriers) eh 700UW?

So in my view, History has shown the IAM to be just as responsible for Eastern's demise. It just took the membership to take care of the IAM rather than Congress. And history does have a habit or repeating itself eh...?


Guy that Makes US Aviation's Bad Boy Club Look Stupid

 

[700UW]

What does the IAM being voted out of representing mechanics have to do with Lorenzo being banned from the airline industry?

The IAM is still the largest transportation union in the Airline Industry.

Guess they must be doing something right since a Utility person makes more then you flying right seat on your brazilian barbie jet, just shows ALPA's lack of skills and the willingness of your fellow pilots to sell you out.

And Congress did not ban Lorenzo, the Departments of Transportation and Labor did.

And go talk to people that lived EAL, my uncle was an inspector for 29 years at EAL.

Grounded: Frank Lorenzo and the Destruction of Eastern Airlines
by Aaron Bernstein
From Publishers Weekly
In this tense, event-by-event account of the crash of Eastern Airlines in the late 1980s, as suspenseful as an air-disaster movie, Business Week reporter Bernstein presents Lorenzo as an obsessed anti-unionist. The Texas-based aviation empire he founded was crowned by the takeover of ailing Eastern Airlines, and his treatment of employees led to bitter, prolonged strikes and lawsuits that threatened to cripple national transportation. Union efforts on the employees' behalf to secure a purchaser for the near-bankrupt airline were thwarted by Lorenzo, who, in accordance with a 1990 court order, was removed from management in favor of a trustee, an order that the author considers a watershed in the labor policy of the Republican era.

From Library Journal
This story of the acquisition of Eastern Airlines by the Texas Air Corporation is a fascinating expose of management ineptitude, likely to become a classic case study. Bernstein gathered his material while reporting on labor matters for Business Week , and he focuses on the personalities in the deal. As he tells it, many important decisions that resulted in Texas Air gaining control of 15 percent of the air traffic in the United States were either misjudgments or were done in the heat of emotion. While Bernstein is critical of both labor and management, it is clear that he believes management caused a great deal of unnecessary misfortune for itself. This is a good companion to The Battle for Eastern Airlines , a video from PBS's excellent Frontline series.

From the Publisher
The inside account of how Frank Lorenzo took over a sputtering Eastern Airlines and flew it into the ground. Author Aaron Bernstein, with access to major players including Lorenzo and his inner circle, former Eastern Airlines President Frank Borman, Peter Ueberroth, and union boss Charlie Bryan, explains how Lorenzo brought a corporate raider's mentality to running a business, which ultimately caused its failure.

 

[Rico]

Oh, I guess the IAM must be doing a real bang-up job to be voted out repeatedly by an new union.

Way to go

But hey, they were just small isolated carriers that no one cares avout right...?



Anyways, Eastern is gone, and no longer IAM represented. So if IAM pulls another "Charlie Bryan", then US Airways too will be gone, and no longer IAM represented.

Get the general theme here...?


Oh, but if this all goes bad, I guess you can point the finger elsewhere again, that is so useful when it comes to putting food on the table and paying the heat bill. 🙄

Putting yourself out of a job once is dumb, but to not leran your lesson and to do it twice is just plain moronic.

Yeah, you will no longer make more than me, too bad. I guess in some peoples minds (like yours) that the guy cleaning the plane should make more than the one flying it..., but that is what the remainder of us call delusional.

Welcome to reality

 

[700UW]

AMFA is not a new union it started back in 1962.

It made its resurgence in 1996.

Maybe you should actually learn about subjects before you post about them.

And Frank Lorenzo destroyed EAL, not Charlie Bryan, guess you seem to forget the IAM, ALPA and TWU all stuck EAL, hmm please explain how Charlie controlled ALPA and the TWU?

And the bankruptcy judge removed him from control of EAL and the DOT and DOJ banned him from the industry, can you say the same of Mr Bryan?

You can bendover and give US what they want, but someone has to stop the corporate greed.

Are you moonlighting as Ms Cleo now?

You do not know what people will make and your union and its members all ready made the choice to pay you LESS then a Utility person and as long as people like you are willing to work for that pay, you will continue the spiral downward of the industry. Pretty sad that the pilot of the smaller F28s made double your salary.

Your group should be ashamed of itself.

 

[Rico]

What real issue, IAM and Lorenzo jointly drove Eastern into the ground. Everyone knows that, just because you deny ANY fault on the IAM's part does not mean they were innocent babes in the woods.

Please.

The Post Topic???? Heck ya I could see US Airways shutting down and restarting. Why not...?

My point is, that IAM acting stupis (ie - not negotiating earlier, no proposals now = more likely chance it will occur)

What other "real issue" are you referring to...?

 

[700UW]

Glad to see you keep dodging the real issue at hand and keep avoiding the facts.

And don't worry about the reality check as soon as one union walks your job will be gone as well.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Oh, I guess the IAM must be doing a real bang-up job to be voted out repeatedly by an new union.

Way to go

But hey, they were just small isolated carriers that no one cares avout right...?
Anyways, Eastern is gone, and no longer IAM represented. So if IAM pulls another "Charlie Bryan", then US Airways too will be gone, and no longer IAM represented.

Get the general theme here...?
Oh, but if this all goes bad, I guess you can point the finger elsewhere again, that is so useful when it comes to putting food on the table and paying the heat bill. 🙄

Putting yourself out of a job once is dumb, but to not leran your lesson and to do it twice is just plain moronic.

Yeah, you will no longer make more than me, too bad. I guess in some peoples minds (like yours) that the guy cleaning the plane should make more than the one flying it..., but that is what the remainder of us call delusional.

Welcome to reality

[post="202977"][/post]​

Rico,

One of the major downfalls of IAM at UA is they ‘DID NOT’ give the membership the ‘STRIKE VOTE†that they demanded. They did not serve the wishes of the membership and the ‘membership’ chose to have them removed.

For advocates of organized labor, we respected the choices and sacrifices that the EAL IAM and ALPA membership chose and many of ‘US’ are still benefiting from their sacrifices.

What some of you perceive as ‘dishonorable’, others (such as I) understand the circumstances and hold their actions in high esteem, if not honorific.

Mixing in the ‘IAM –vs- AMFA’ rhetoric appears that you are attempting to be argumentative and disingenuous. Pitting the USAir M&R for a change of leadership would serve no other point than in leading into the hands of dividing the membership further which is certainly not in the best interests of the USAir M&R and/or the intentions of AMFA.

For your edification, membership of AMFA Local 9 has endorsed the AFA CHAOS Strikes:

Local 9 Membership meeting resolution

The following item was voted and approved at the dayshift and swingshift meetings on 17 Nov 2004. The vote was unanimous. Text of Resolution is as follows:

WHEREAS, The Association of Flight attendants United Airlines Master Executive Council unanimously adopted a Resolution for Strike preparedness on November 16, 2004 calling for AFA CHAOS strikes at any company that abrogates an AFA contract, and industry wide secondary strike properly authorized by the AFA and calling on all airline employees to join in solidarity and,

WHEREAS, we as mechanics and related are now facing the same attacks by the very same companies as the AFA and that our collective strength is in our numbers and our ability to withhold our labor across all crafts,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, that this meeting of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) Local 9 San Francisco endorses these actions of the Association of Flight Attendants, and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that this meeting of AMFA Local 9 directs our Local, Airline, and National leadership to do everything they can to make similar strike preparations, including endorsement of the AFA resolutions and adoption of our own National strike resolutions.

Don’t hope for something you may not want.

JMHO&PO

Good luck to you all over here!!!

Take Care,
B) UAL_TECH

 

[PITbull]

Ditto, my friend!