U SAirways holds out cup to taxpayers while execs get rich.

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
----------------
On 3/12/2003 4:23:21 PM MarkMyWords wrote:

You may have felt that you have answered the questions above, but again you have failed to show me the proof. If you are going to post information on here, you better be prepared to support it.

As for your cost savings ideas, please feel free to hit the highlights. What is the harm in posting cost savings measures in a public forum? Again, I find it humorous that you CLAIM to have information, ideas and suggestions, but can't share them. What if I were a dues paying member of your union? Don't I have the right to know what you are advocating on my behalf? God help you and your union if you handle all of your daily affairs with the same level of unsubstantiated responses. It is time to put up or hush up.

As for me...I am a representative of management. I am not anti-labor nor am I anti-company. I believe in weighing out the FACTS and making an educated decision on what is right or wrong. I think I have a pretty good Pitbulls**t detector and all I ask is that if you are going to post information, then you better be able to back up your claims. Again, please educate me and show me, in writing or via a link, the information that supports you claims. If you can't do that, then please qualify your posts, as Chip does, buy stating that it is your opinion and not necessarily fact.



----------------
[/blockquote]

Dear Marky,

It is NOT my opinion. Let me refresh your Management mind:

This document (that is in writing) is from USAirways Annual report dated: April 12, 2002. I am sure you can get your hands on it at a Library or right next door to your office.

As follows: Mr Siegel joined US Airways in March 2002. Under his employment arrangements with the Company and US Airways. Mr. Siegel is entitled to an annual base salary of not less than $750,000. Base salary is to be reveiwed at least annually, and if increased, may not thereafter be decreased. Upon employment, Mr Siegel received a one time payment of $750,000. In addition, Mr. Siegel is eligible for an annual bonus payment to the terms of the Company's Incentive Compensation Plan. Under the plan, Mr. Siegel may receive a bonus of 100% of annual base salary for TARGET RESULTS, which may be increased for results in EXCESS of the target up to a maximum bonus of 200% of base salary. Mr. Siegel's employment arrangement provides that his is entitled to a minimum incentive payment for the 2002 fiscal year of no less than the target amount. Mr Siegel is also eligible for a bonus of 220% of his average annual base salary from the Company's Long Term Incentive Plan (LTIP) if certain TARGET RESULTS ARE ACHEIVED DURING THE PERFORMANCE PERIOD, which may be INCREASED to a MAXIMUM BONUS OF 440% for results EXCEEDING THE TARGET."


The rest speaks to his entitlement of stock option awards and Restricked stock.

If you want me to go through that exercise, AS YOU'RE ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT ME IN SOME FASHION has failed, I will provide that. And don't act dumb, this is public information.

As far as a "dues paying member", why you can just go to your local union office for exact information that you seek. That's exactly what I do. You don't have to recieve it from a mssage board.

However, since you claim to be management, could you somehow get the compensation contract of Mr. Jerold Glass, Senior exec. VP of Labor? I am not able to get my hands on that...yet.

ANYTHING ELSE?????

 

[PITbull]

???

 

[LavMan]

After reading the article written by the Congressman, it proves that politicians have no clue.

There are NO tax dollars given to US Airways, US Airways finds private funding sources and the goverment merely underwrites the loan if US Airways goes out of business. Also they are getting the slots in DCA and LGA as collateral and 10% of the stock. Just proves that politicians are clueless.

And rumor has it the IAM will be filing a motion in court to recover the $35 million dollars paid out the the Wolfgang who put us in this financial mess.

 

[MarkMyWords]

I appreciate you posting the information, but that was from April 2002....pre-bankruptcy. Are you certain that all of those bonuses are still there? A lot has changed for every employee of the company since filing bankruptcy. Here, once again, are some of the highlights:

Bonuses and other perks, including incentive compensation payouts, have been eliminated through at least 2004.

Unlike other corporate restructurings, where executives are rewarded for successful completion of the bankruptcy process, there will be no "stay" bonuses, retention bonuses, or guaranteed first year bonuses for officers of the company. At United Airlines, in comparison, management employees and officers will share $22 million in retention and emergence bonuses. At WorldCom, a pool of $25 million to be distributed to 325 executives has been approved by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

The defined benefit retirement plan for senior officers is being eliminated and replaced with a defined contribution target benefit that mirrors the company's proposal to ALPA for a replacement pension plan.

A meaningful portion of management compensation will be tied to the performance of the company's stock. Furthermore, potential stock and options grants available for management has been reduced from 18 percent -- as agreed to under the original equity plan sponsor with Texas Pacific Group -- to less than 8 percent of the total available stock of the company, upon emergence. In comparison, all other employees will hold approximately 32 percent of the new stock to be issued, including 19.3 percent of the equity to be granted to pilots.

Again, senior management has taken their fair share of cuts, just like every other employee. Let me ask you this.....What do you feel is a fair compensation and benefits package for senior officers? Should they make the same as you> Why don't you out line what you feel is fair. Personally, I feel that if Dave does guide us through this process and gets the airline back on it's feet, then he is worth every penny, bonuses and all. Do I feel that the 35 million that Wolf and company stole from the company is just, absolutely not. If the company begins to turn a profit, there is something in it for everyone. Granted, we will not all share equally, but I don't expect to get the same bonus as Dave or even the same as a Pilot and neither should you. What is your obsession with the salaries of senior managers? Obviously you feel you have all the answers and can solve all of the airlines problems, so why aren't you the Queen Bee of USAirways?

I do appreciate you providing the information that you did. I do believe that it is somewhat outdated since everything has changed since the bankruptcy filing and the negotiated concessionary contracts. As for Mr. Glasses contract, by all means feel free to call him and ask him. It is not my place to comment on any persons compensation package. Obviously, being in the position that you are in, I am sure you have had many more occasions to speak with him then I have.

I am looking forward to you next set of rants and raves about how great you are and how horrible the management team is. I would be interested in hearing how the Great PB would have solved the companies problems differently. I would be interested in hearing what you feel is the appropriate compensation for an executive and who you think would accept it. If you want talent and competent executives, you have to pay for them. Look what we got when we were paying bargain basement wages to the bumble heads that got us here. If Dave and team get us out of this mess, then they are worth what we offered to pay them. Hey, that's just my opinion...just as we have heard yours.

 

[LavMan]

Mark you are wrong:

August 28, 2002 - The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) filed a motion in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on August 26, 2002 seeking to vacate an order granted on August 12, 2002 giving US Airways authorization to pay $6 million in bonuses to certain executives and managers at the carrier.

“We are the first group to challenge these outrageous bonuses,†said IAM General Vice President Robert Roach, Jr., “and we welcome others to join us in our fight.â€

The IAM’s motion to vacate asserts, “The Bonuses represent an attempt to inappropriately pay non-union employees of the Debtors at the expense of other general unsecured creditors and, more significantly, the union employees who have been asked to agree to concessions aggregating approximately $900 million per year for a period of six and a half years.â€

The August 12 order also fails to identify which employees will receive a bonus, the amount of bonus to be received by each employee. And the reason why the job performed by each employee is necessary for US Airways’ reorganization effort. The IAM’s motion will be heard on September 5, 2002.

The full text of the IAM’s motion can be read here.

 

[PITbull]

----------------
On 3/14/2003 1:56:38 AM LavMan wrote:

Mark you are wrong:

August 28, 2002 - The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) filed a motion in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Eastern District of Virginia on August 26, 2002 seeking to vacate an order granted on August 12, 2002 giving US Airways authorization to pay $6 million in bonuses to certain executives and managers at the carrier.

“We are the first group to challenge these outrageous bonuses,†said IAM General Vice President Robert Roach, Jr., “and we welcome others to join us in our fight.â€

The IAM’s motion to vacate asserts, “The Bonuses represent an attempt to inappropriately pay non-union employees of the Debtors at the expense of other general unsecured creditors and, more significantly, the union employees who have been asked to agree to concessions aggregating approximately $900 million per year for a period of six and a half years.â€

The August 12 order also fails to identify which employees will receive a bonus, the amount of bonus to be received by each employee. And the reason why the job performed by each employee is necessary for US Airways’ reorganization effort. The IAM’s motion will be heard on September 5, 2002.

The full text of the IAM’s motion can be read here.

----------------
​

Hey Marky,

Reread again what LavMan posted above. We as labor have been asked to give unprecedented concessions for THE NEXT 6 YEARS. We went into our contracts WHEN THEY WERE NOT EVEN AMENDABLE YET! Don't talk to me about bonuses for execs, it turns my stomach!

Seigel CONTRACT TERMS HAVE NOT CHANGED. If you are challenging me on this, prove it. Post his NEW contract TERMS and conditions. Only thing changed was his base salary reduction and bonus forfieture through 2004. His pension is defined Contributions and life insurance changed to TERM. And don't give me that crap about BK, HIS TERMS ARE STILL THE SAME ALONG WITH ALL THE OFFICERS!

YOU prove otherwise!

What I think senior mangement execs should receive is thier salaries. Period. AND NO BONUSES UNTIL ALL WAGES FROM LABOR ARE SNAPPED BACK TO PRECONCESSION BOOK OF JUNE 30, 2002! Everyone desesrves a fair salary to reflect their responsibilities and skill. However, the bonuses that have been given in this particular industry HAS BEEN INSANE! And, IMO bonuses should be granted ONLY when ALL employees are made WHOLE! When we turn a profit in this company, will be the DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT LABOR HAS CONTRIBUTED, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ENTIRE RESTRUCTURING PLAN! To get what they received from the labor groups doesn't take a genius; just takes a "gun to labor's heads" which Siegel and gang did. So far, that's all they have done.

I will continue to be OBSESSED WITH THE PROMOTIONS,# of VPS, PERKS, AND BONUSES OF MANAGEMENT UNTIL ALL OF LABOR IS MADE WHOLE! And I will continue to be outspoken about it "until the cows come home", and use all venues that I am able.

Chew on that for awhile!

 

[N786P]

Hey PITbull,maybe MarkMyWords needs to take note of the movie "Cool Hand Luke"...."Some Men You Just Can't Reach"!!!!

 

[PITbull]

Markmywords,

Still waiting for your response to the above...

 

[MarkMyWords]

Lav Man

What exactly am I wrong about? The 6 million dollar bonus package is not money paid to Dave or any of the Senior VP's of the company. That money was to be used to stop the mass exodus of talented people after the bankruptcy filing. Imagine what would have happened if we hadn't offered some people incentives to stay. Imagine watching all your experienced managers/director/etc walk out the door. I am not saying that there weren't people that should have been allowed to leave, but you don't let all of your talent exit at the same time. Those that we didn't want to stick around, wouldn't have been offered a bonus to stay. Am I happy that 6 million dollars was paid out to management employees? No. Do I understand why we did it? Yes. This is not an uncommon practice in most large corporations and in the big scheme of things, 6 million dollars is really not a lot. We burned through 6 million dollars in 2 days in January.

Now do I agree with the 35 million payments to W & G? Absolutely not. That money needs to be returned to US pronto.

PITBull -

You fail to recognize that the management team has also taken concessions right along side all of the employees of US. Their medical, dental, retirement, pay, etc have all been changed, just like you and I. Yes there are still bonuses in Dave and Senior Managements contracts and they are performance based....just like every other employees profit sharing. When the company returns to profitability, WE ALL WIN and we all share the in the profits. Do you feel that your share of any profit sharing or bonus should be the same as Daves? He did not get us into this mess, but in my eyes he is doing what needs to be done to get us out of it a healthier, stronger, and more competetive airline. If they are able to save the airline, keep 30,000 people employed, change the mind set of how we do business, set us up for future growth and continued employement......THEN GIVE THE MAN THE BONUS!

As for changes to Dave or any Senior Managers contracts.....I don't make it my business to know everything about the contracts that do not effect me. I know how the concession effected me and that is all that I really care about. So, no I do not have anything more then what I have already posted in reference to changes in anyones contract, nor do I wish to waste my time looking. But, as you said, Daves contract has changed in terms of his base salary, bonus forfieture through 2004, pension changes and insurance changes. THE SAME AS YOU AND I! Again, if the company makes money, then we all make money. You and I and every employee working for this company have profit sharing, that is our bonus if the company returns to profitability. We will all be stock holders when the new stock is issued, some more then others. Do you expect the same bonuses, the same stock as the executives? How about even the same stock as the Pilots?

You say that you feel that Senior Management should only receive their salaries until all labor wages are snapped back to preconcession levels. Do you honestly think that you will ever see contracts like you had preconcession? Let me ask you this, where do you think the revenue is going to come from? In case you haven't heard, revenue is dropping like a lead ballon, with little hope of it ever coming back to the levels of June 2002. Even if you are only talking about the wage aspect of the contracts, you will be hard pressed to ever get back to those levels. If I am not mistaken, your AFA contracts provide for small incremental raises over the life of the concessionary contracts. With inflation you will never return to that level of pay. The industry as a whole is changing. Mature carriers like ours are going to have to find ways to reinvent themselves. Revenue levels will not support that cost structure anymore. Industry jobs will never have the pay and benefits that they once had. Performance based bonuses and profit sharing are a way that we all will reap the benefits of a profitable company. It may not be distributed in what you feel is a fair way, but so be it. You chose your lot in life and had the same opportunities to progress in this company if you chose to do so. You have only yourself to blame if the path you chose doesn't have the perks and bennies you want. It is no different then a F/A or a ramp agent that is mad about what a Pilot makes.

You say that the executive bonuses in this industry are insane, have you looked at other industries? Have you seen what executives of other large corporations receive? It is not specific to this indusrty alone. Again, do I agree with it.....not really. But that is how the game is played. If you want talented people, you have to pay for it. Money talks.

You said: When we turn a profit in this company, will be the DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT LABOR HAS CONTRIBUTED, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ENTIRE RESTRUCTURING PLAN! To get what they received from the labor groups doesn't take a genius; just takes a "gun to labor's heads" which Siegel and gang did. So far, that's all they have done.

I agree in part. Labor was the largest contributor to the successful turn around of the company. Labor was also the highest expense in the company. But you also have not acknowledged the 144,000 company creditors that also made huge sacrifices because of our bankruptcy filing. What about all of the lease renegotiations and facility consolidations? Every aspect of the company is about doing more with less. I am not down playing the employee contributions which were HUGE and in most cases life altering. But please recognize the other 144,000 creidtors that had the same gun held to thier heads. Much more has been done then you give credit for.

I do know that you will continue to be outspoken about what you feel is right. Boy do I know you will be outspoken. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] I am sorry that it takes me a while to respond, but I do have a life outside of this message board and working. I am not going to waste a 60-70 degree day to argue with you, because no matter what I say, I will be wrong anyway. Again, this is how I feel and my opinion.

Mark

 

[PITbull]

PITBull -

You fail to recognize that the management team has also taken concessions right along side all of the employees of US. Their medical, dental, retirement, pay, etc have all been changed, just like you and I. Yes there are still bonuses in Dave and Senior Managements contracts and they are performance based....just like every other employees profit sharing. When the company returns to profitability, WE ALL WIN and we all share the in the profits. Do you feel that your share of any profit sharing or bonus should be the same as Daves? He did not get us into this mess, but in my eyes he is doing what needs to be done to get us out of it a healthier, stronger, and more competetive airline. If they are able to save the airline, keep 30,000 people employed, change the mind set of how we do business, set us up for future growth and continued employement......THEN GIVE THE MAN THE BONUS!

As for changes to Dave or any Senior Managers contracts.....I don't make it my business to know everything about the contracts that do not effect me. I know how the concession effected me and that is all that I really care about. So, no I do not have anything more then what I have already posted in reference to changes in anyones contract, nor do I wish to waste my time looking. But, as you said, Daves contract has changed in terms of his base salary, bonus forfieture through 2004, pension changes and insurance changes. THE SAME AS YOU AND I! Again, if the company makes money, then we all make money. You and I and every employee working for this company have profit sharing, that is our bonus if the company returns to profitability. We will all be stock holders when the new stock is issued, some more then others. Do you expect the same bonuses, the same stock as the executives? How about even the same stock as the Pilots?

You say that you feel that Senior Management should only receive their salaries until all labor wages are snapped back to preconcession levels. Do you honestly think that you will ever see contracts like you had preconcession? Let me ask you this, where do you think the revenue is going to come from? In case you haven't heard, revenue is dropping like a lead ballon, with little hope of it ever coming back to the levels of June 2002. Even if you are only talking about the wage aspect of the contracts, you will be hard pressed to ever get back to those levels. If I am not mistaken, your AFA contracts provide for small incremental raises over the life of the concessionary contracts. With inflation you will never return to that level of pay. The industry as a whole is changing. Mature carriers like ours are going to have to find ways to reinvent themselves. Revenue levels will not support that cost structure anymore. Industry jobs will never have the pay and benefits that they once had. Performance based bonuses and profit sharing are a way that we all will reap the benefits of a profitable company. It may not be distributed in what you feel is a fair way, but so be it. You chose your lot in life and had the same opportunities to progress in this company if you chose to do so. You have only yourself to blame if the path you chose doesn't have the perks and bennies you want. It is no different then a F/A or a ramp agent that is mad about what a Pilot makes.

You say that the executive bonuses in this industry are insane, have you looked at other industries? Have you seen what executives of other large corporations receive? It is not specific to this indusrty alone. Again, do I agree with it.....not really. But that is how the game is played. If you want talented people, you have to pay for it. Money talks.

You said: When we turn a profit in this company, will be the DIRECT RESULT OF WHAT LABOR HAS CONTRIBUTED, BECAUSE THAT IS THE ENTIRE RESTRUCTURING PLAN! To get what they received from the labor groups doesn't take a genius; just takes a "gun to labor's heads" which Siegel and gang did. So far, that's all they have done.

I agree in part. Labor was the largest contributor to the successful turn around of the company. Labor was also the highest expense in the company. But you also have not acknowledged the 144,000 company creditors that also made huge sacrifices because of our bankruptcy filing. What about all of the lease renegotiations and facility consolidations? Every aspect of the company is about doing more with less. I am not down playing the employee contributions which were HUGE and in most cases life altering. But please recognize the other 144,000 creidtors that had the same gun held to thier heads. Much more has been done then you give credit for.

I do know that you will continue to be outspoken about what you feel is right. Boy do I know you will be outspoken. [img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/9.gif'] I am sorry that it takes me a while to respond, but I do have a life outside of this message board and working. I am not going to waste a 60-70 degree day to argue with you, because no matter what I say, I will be wrong anyway. Again, this is how I feel and my opinion.

Mark
----------------








Mark,



I have not failed to see that management has taken concessions. They had to, and it was because of much pressure from Labor that they cut what they did...much pressure, and you and I both know this very, very well.

Concessions from Labor are way different than the concessions from mangement. $600,000 pay check per year for example, is still quite livable. And, I am not trying to imply that a CEO should make $50,000 per year. Don't go there again. A wage cut for a high priced Exec is benign in that I don't view it as a sacrifice; just a concession. A paycheck cut of 20% of $200,000 and $250,000 is way different than a paycheck cut of 10.4% paycut of $35,000. You must agree. The person who makes $35 thousand pays the same food bills and gas and utilites as a person who make $250,000 or even $600,000. Do not equate the two groups of concessions as the same; the impact to standard of living, and cost of living is majorly different.

Do I believe folks should be paid exactly the same? That's an asinine concept. To justify the $6 Million to retain good management folks as opposed to retaining good, loyal "rank and file folks" does not even deserve my reply. You are way too presumptuous in assuming their talents would be so marketable in this kind of economy. I am NOT that gullible to believe such nonsense. Those senior executives and managers did NOT deserve their bonus whether it was for performance for 2001, which WAS OUR WORST PERFORMANCE YEAR. They got paid their salaries as we got paid our wages. No bonus should have been paid out, especially in BK. Let those folks leave and try to find work in this economy. They wouldn't be able to, and if they would say they came from USAirways, they wouldn't find a job for many years as it was very well publisized what condition U was in. It never ceases to amaze me that if a "rank and file" employee does not perform and do their jobs, they get terminated...disciplined right out the door. Contrary, when mangement does not perform and falls short of their targets, they get rewarded by receiving bonuses. Even if it was for their personal performance review, how does one justify a bonus for anyone for a corporation's profoundly bad year?

Labor, on the other hand, had no say in business decisions. We came to work every day and did the best performance known to any labor group in any industry, AND BY THE WAY, I NEED TO REMIND YOU THAT LABOR GAVE CONCESSIONS OUTSIDE OF BK FILING. UNLIKE THE CREDITORS. Our management team told us that IT WAS NECESSARY TO FILE BK BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GET THE VENDORS AND LESSORS TO MAKE ANY CONCESSIONS. So, please, don't go there with us with the poor creditors. BK has now become an epidemic in our industry, and the "in thing" in Corporate business today. Airlines who had money are burning their cash as we speak so that can run into BK for their "free pass".

With your comment that LABOR IS THE HIGHEST EXPENSE FOR OUR AIRLINE, in case has slipped your mind, WE ARE A SERVICE INDUSTRY. Everything we do is service, therefore, it makes sense that having employees would be a cost to the company. But tables have turned; now it COST labor to come to work and maintain these jobs. We get a wage, but outside of that the benefits are beinng bourn on Labor. More and more every single year.

With regard to profit sharing, Mangement should not get bonuses until Labor wages "snap back" compeletely. In our particular circumstances as AFA, WE DO NOT GET INCREASES GOING FORWARD; they are snap backs going forward that begin to get returned to the employee. We presently sit at 1995 wages, the 5% decrease for war event will take our particular group to 1989. And don't start with the retorhic of "go somewhere else if you can make more". Nothing is more "back hair raising" then to tell folks who have been with one employer for 10, 15, 20, 25 years to go somewhere else if you are looking for a livable wage. Why does mangement feel so comfortable saying that to "rank and file" folks? Is that what they teach you at Harvard and Yale as a "come back" statement to make for lack of better reasoning?

You state we won't see those wages again. Well, that's what unions are about, along with a NICE "strike fund".
As Execs look for higher salaries and bonuses, so shall labor.

I have not seen "talent" with this new management yet. If the talent is there, other than the strategy used to bring employee wages and benefits down to barely livable
existence, who now are teetering with personal BK into the future for the employees, we shall see what this mangement is made of. Haven't heard "labor friendly" in a long time from this mangement, and you surely won't hear it from one "rank and file" employee. Mangement is still promoting folks to handle and micro manage a decreased "work force", and making sure that whatever infraction the employee commits, the discipline given is beyond punitive. If you are a manager that is high ranking, like I believe you are, you need to do something with that philosophy.


The "rank and file" employees have SAVED this airline, IMO, and deserve much more respect than they are getting from your lower mangement team. Someone has given them the orders and they are relentless.

My suggestion.....clean it up or clear them out!

src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif']



Sorry for the rant...again.