TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[Get informef]

Can anyone explain what CIO means by loss of local autonomy . I know what autonomy means but how is he referring to its use or loss if a union decertifies.thanks and back to the sidelines I go . Let the debate resume!

 

[Wehttam]

In reference to Post #14 -


au·ton·o·my [aw-ton-uh-mee]

–noun, plural -mies.
1. independence or freedom, as of the will or one's actions: the autonomy of the individual.
2. the condition of being autonomous; self-government, or the right of self-government; independence: The rebels demanded autonomy from Spain.
3. a self-governing community.



TWU Constitution, Article XIV - Local Unions


SECTION 3. No Local Union shall be dissolved, except with the approval of the International Executive Council.

SECTION 5. ...The bylaws shall conform to the provisions and the principles of this Constitution and to the established policies of the International Union, and shall be effective only when approved by the International Administrative Committee.


SECTION 7. With the prior approval of the International Administrative Committee, the office and duties of Recording Secretary may be merged into the single office of Financial Secretary-Treasurer.

SECTION 11. No Local Union shall ever be incorporated.

SECTION 12. The Local Executive Board shall have the power, subject to the prior approval of the International Administrative Committee, to purchase, either in the name of the Local Union, or in the name of a corporation formed for that purpose whose stock is held in the name of the officers of the Local as trustees for the Local Union, such real property as may be convenient or necessary for the proper functioning of the Local Union.

SECTION 13. The International Executive Council shall determine the policy on affiliations of Local Unions, and shall have the power to require any Local Union to comply with such policy. No Local Union shall enter into any affiliation outside such policy, except with the prior approval of the International Executive Council.

SECTION 14. No Local Union shall create a fund or trust, separate and distinct from the funds of the Local Union, without the prior written approval of the International Administrative Committee.


And this is just one section. So why is it that you are arguing about AMP's lack of Autonomy?

 

[the cave]

Why doesn't CIO explain/defend the TWU's constitution?

CIO, I want you to explain why we must have international officers APPOINTED and not elected by the membership. Can you please answer this simple question? Your silence indicates that you do not believe in democracy where all officers are elected and held accountable.

 

[Checking it Out]

I had a discussion with AMP leader yesterday and His hole mission in life is to destroy the TWU!!!! It doesn't matter if it's AMFA, IBT or This new association AMP. He has signed them ALL!!! Anyone who follows this Individual is nothing more than Morron!!!! They lack any ability to Think for themselves. He is more like a typical cult Leader!!!! Yes Master whatever you Say!!!!!

Have a Great TWU Day!!!!!!

 

[odie01]

I had a discussion with AMP leader yesterday and His hole mission in life is to destroy the TWU!!!! It doesn't matter if it's AMFA, IBT or This new association AMP. He has signed them ALL!!! Anyone who follows this Individual is nothing more than Morron!!!! They lack any ability to Think for themselves. He is more like a typical cult Leader!!!! Yes Master whatever you Say!!!!!

Have a Great TWU Day!!!!!!

That was a very intelligent post, and you get a 10 for spin factor!

 

[1AA]

I had a discussion with AMP leader yesterday and His hole mission in life is to destroy the TWU!!!! It doesn't matter if it's AMFA, IBT or This new association AMP. He has signed them ALL!!! Anyone who follows this Individual is nothing more than Morron!!!! They lack any ability to Think for themselves. He is more like a typical cult Leader!!!! Yes Master whatever you Say!!!!!

Have a Great TWU Day!!!!!!

And the Earth is flat. OK I believe you now.

 

[Birdman]

I had a discussion with AMP leader yesterday and His hole mission in life is to destroy the TWU!!!! It doesn't matter if it's AMFA, IBT or This new association AMP. He has signed them ALL!!! Anyone who follows this Individual is nothing more than Morron!!!! They lack any ability to Think for themselves. He is more like a typical cult Leader!!!! Yes Master whatever you Say!!!!!

Have a Great TWU Day!!!!!!

Question 1. Did he say "destroy"?
Question 2. "He has signed them ALL!!!" What does that mean?
Question 3. Doesn't Morron have 1 r?
Question 4. What does this have to do with the AMP vs TWU debate?

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip
Question 4. What does this have to do with the AMP vs TWU debate?

Answer to Question #4 Nothing at all, but it does deflect the conversation, hoping to buy time to answer and, therefore, enable the deflection and add a small measure of credibility to the argument. That trick is taught in a debate class.

Standard argument/debate procedure dictates one must repel "boarders" then attack the opposing position by any means possible without giving away the weakness in one's own position. By these standards, the TWU side hasn't much to talk about as, so far, we've not gotten a very good debate on actual issues but I am anticipating a nice narrative re: Samuel Gompers eventually. That will, however, show exactly where that person keeps his goat tied up.

Standard debate procedure is for a moderator to put forth a question with the opposing sides addressing that particular issue, with the moderator immediately shutting off any off topic wandering. Thus far, the format/structure hasn't been followed very well but it would be rather difficult to do so in this venue as a typical round takes 24 hours due to the participants' schedules.

 

[aapitbull]

I had a discussion with AMP leader yesterday and His hole mission in life is to destroy the TWU!!!! It doesn't matter if it's AMFA, IBT or This new association AMP. He has signed them ALL!!! Anyone who follows this Individual is nothing more than Morron!!!! They lack any ability to Think for themselves. He is more like a typical cult Leader!!!! Yes Master whatever you Say!!!!!

Have a Great TWU Day!!!!!!

Do you have any idea how many members you just called a morons? There are thousands of members that have signed AMP,AMFA and IAM cards, I have never signed a IBT card but wou;d have if I thought they would run a election.

 

[Imjustsayin]

Do you have any idea how many members you just called a morons? There are thousands of members that have signed AMP,AMFA and IAM cards, I have never signed a IBT card but wou;d have if I thought they would run a election.

Whats a "hole mission"?

 

[Jenni]

Why doesn't CIO explain/defend the TWU's constitution?

CIO, I want you to explain why we must have international officers APPOINTED and not elected by the membership. Can you please answer this simple question? Your silence indicates that you do not believe in democracy where all officers are elected and held accountable.

I voted for the International Officers. Where did you read that they were APPOINTED at?

 

[Frank Szabo]

I voted for the International Officers. Where did you read that they were APPOINTED at?

The majority of the membership doesn't go to the drunk-fest, Jenni - you know that.

Yes - those people are elected - but not by the majority of the membership. I certainly didn't vote for what landed there nor would I have given the opportunity - nor would have many others.

 

[aapitbull]

I voted for the International Officers. Where did you read that they were APPOINTED at?

You may have voted to keep them at the drunken staged convention but little jim was appointed when he got the job. by the way who was his opponent or was he unopposed?

 

[Jenni]

The majority of the membership doesn't go to the drunk-fest, Jenni - you know that.

Yes - those people are elected - but not by the majority of the membership. I certainly didn't vote for what landed there nor would I have given the opportunity - nor would have many others.

Frank,
I never had the opportunity to attend the "drunk-fest" festivities. I stayed pretty busy and didn't have much down time there... I think that came with my job at the time though. Maybe next time; now that my workload has decreased a bit.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the way they are elected. I've argued that point about the way the President of the United States is elected as well. It's the exact same way in the TWU. I'm a Little fan though. I believe he is a very good leader that allows the locals and committees to make their own decisions. What is your tiff with Jim?

You may have voted to keep them at the drunken staged convention but little jim was appointed when he got the job. by the way who was his opponent or was he unopposed?

aapitbull,
He ran unopposed. What is your resolution for the time between a President leaves office and the time it would take to hold an election?

 

[aapitbull]

Frank,
I never had the opportunity to attend the "drunk-fest" festivities. I stayed pretty busy and didn't have much down time there... I think that came with my job at the time though. Maybe next time; now that my workload has decreased a bit.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the way they are elected. I've argued that point about the way the President of the United States is elected as well. It's the exact same way in the TWU. I'm a Little fan though. I believe he is a very good leader that allows the locals and committees to make their own decisions. What is your tiff with Jim?



aapitbull,
He ran unopposed. What is your resolution for the time between a President leaves office and the time it would take to hold an election?

You make the Vice president the president and appoint a lower postion or you have a election. the problem is the TWU does not have a history of this, generally someone steps down and appoints his replacement. now please don't waste our time with a comparison to the electorial college, Jim Little as the setting president has the power to appoint { there is that word again} the heads of the committee's that decide on how the business of the convention will progress, if he does not want a resoultion to come to the floor it is not coming.

I think it is ironic that you came on here saying you voted for Jim and now you admit he was unopposed tell me how or why do you have a vote if he is unopposed. there are several countries around the world that elect leaders as you did Jim but there not considered democratic!

By the way did also vote in Gless, Videtich, Conley or any ATD position or did they run unopposed?

Thanks for admitting that it is a drunk-fest sorry you could not attend.