TWU vs. AMP Debate Comments

[aapitbull]

Has anyone really read the T/A that CAL mechanics have? If it's so good, then why does site http://www.cal-ualmechanics.com/ say the poll is 80% against it.

Isn't that amazing a contract that makes our T/A look like the Total POS that it was and 80% are against it, what does that say about the TWU I say it just goes to show they did a complete sellout again, thats why they must go.

I have read it and I don't know whether it will pass at CO but it head and shoulders above our T/A. this probablly explains why the TWU/AA where in such a rush to stick us with another concession.

 

[Mr Red]

The fox noise types ars pretty obvious. TWU is on life support!!!

 

[aapitbull]

Passengers don’t need bags or a clean aircraft to fly. They don’t need to get rebooked if the flight has a mechanical. Your myopic view of unionism is blind. .

Che Guevara gave his life for his people. But, you are willing to give up a union brother’s/sister’s livelihood for our own comfort. Communists were at the forefront in the fight for civil rights and better working conditions in the United States. Read a real history book. Amp/amfa deserves you.

First of all, the gate agents at AA are not union as far as fleet service or cleaners go it not up to us to organize ever group on the property. plus according to you they have the best union money can buy so what is the problem if the mechanics leave. I would point out that the TWU organized the Stores clerks first then they used them to Raid a mechanics union that was on the property and finally the fleet group so why can't we organize just one or two of the groups the TWU did.

As far as the communist go they were attempting to convert the USA from a democratic to a communist state by organizing the masses so please don't try to sing the praises of the communist.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

kukuy,

"The negotiating committee that the membership elected bought back the TA, as they should have.The question is do we stand our ground and support the negotiating committee or cry to amp/amfa that the TWU doesn’t care about ME anymore.
Che Guevara gave his life for his people. But, you are willing to give up a union brother’s/sister’s livelihood for our own comfort."


Why should videtich, uhm, I mean negotiating committee have brought back such a pos t/a? Do not deny the twu did not want this to pass. The twu INTERNATIONAL inserted a colored flyer urging members to vote yes. This t/a was concessionary in every way yet the twu peddled it. Those that voted yes to bring it back should be ashamed now the whole broken system goes back into action. Oh, wait! That's right! Jim Little is admitting the process is broken so there will now be one UNELECTED international officer and one negotiating committee member doing the negotiating. The rest of the committee will be standing by. Sure is a shame that Louis and Gordon aren't there any longer. But I'm sure woodward is ready to step up to the plate.

How are we giving up a union brother's/sister's livelihood for our own comfort? Care to be more specific?

 

[KUKUY]

AMFA has been on the property at SWA a decade now and all you can say is that this is a extension of a Teamsters contract what a joke, as far as us losing work typical TWU fear. I read the defintion you posted and you were wrong your just not man/woman enough to admit it! by the way your pet union is in trouble unless they start acting like a union right now.

Pitbull

For ten years the amfa has been riding the coattails of the IBT. Yes, you are correct. Losing work is any credible union’s concern. Now that you have questioned my femininity/masculinity, I must retreat into the abyss of shame and be quiet now. The sky isn’t blue where you come from. The roll over association amfa, has no power. Maybe if amfa kicks it up an amp or two the toaster will work. Sit amfa. Sit. That is a pet association. Amfa knows well the rollover trick.

 

[TWU informer]

For ten years the amfa has been riding the coattails of the IBT. Yes, you are correct. Losing work is any credible union’s concern. Now that you have questioned my femininity/masculinity, I must retreat into the abyss of shame and be quiet now. The sky isn’t blue where you come from. The roll over association amfa, has no power. Maybe if amfa kicks it up an amp or two the toaster will work. Sit amfa. Sit. That is a pet association. Amfa knows well the rollover trick.

Now that post has credibility, maturity, and spin written all over it.
You and CIO are truely brothers with different Mothers.

"Losing work is any credible unions concern" except when it is 16 CFM56 Engines outsourced 100% right in front of their face. Along with many other engine components that their own stock clerks glady box up and ship out daily.

There is no kown rollover and take concessions union above the TWU. They even admit to being a company union openly in public.

What exaclty is your plan to correct what is happening to us as a work group?
The Millions in Bank are of no help.
The AFL-CIO is of no help.
The Appointed Leaders are of no help.
I am interested in your plan, if you have one.

Or maybe you defend the TWU because you feel comfortable, un-threatened, and happy with what you have now?

 

[Frank Szabo]

For ten years the amfa has been riding the coattails of the IBT. Yes, you are correct. Losing work is any credible union’s concern. Now that you have questioned my femininity/masculinity, I must retreat into the abyss of shame and be quiet now. The sky isn’t blue where you come from. The roll over association amfa, has no power. Maybe if amfa kicks it up an amp or two the toaster will work. Sit amfa. Sit. That is a pet association. Amfa knows well the rollover trick.

One thing you really shouldn't be doing is calling any other so-called "union" or "association" a "pet association" and speaking about how well others know the "rollover" trick while making attempts to defend the TWU.

Nor should you be speaking about what group has or hasn't any power, considering your defense of the TWU. Little and the rest of his twits are in bed with the company - there's very few that won't admit to that, even TWU union officers.

You, CIO, and the rest have nothing to defend as the TWU's own track record speaks rather loudly as to its own actions over the years. Personally, I would be ashamed admitting to defending such a group of thieves and liars. As old Ed Wilson used to say years ago during his presidency of Loacl 514, "Brother - you're believing your own bullshit".

You point to AMP's lack of a track record, yet, at one time, the TWU didn't have one either.

Many defend the TWU because of personal reasons, ie, friendships, social attachments and generally the "what would I do if they disappeared" type of thought. You can make friends without the TWU. You can also get screwed by the company for free without paying dues to a worthless "union" that works harder for AA/AMR than it does for you.

The TWU needs to either go away or straighten itself up rather quickly before a representational election throws its collective arse off the property. It will happen eventually, maybe this time, perhaps another time, but rest assured many have had a belly full of what you are defending - and why?

How about YOU and your buddies at the hall getting with the program of "CHANGE FROM WITHIN" as others and, no doubt, yourself have touted for quite some time, or does that only apply to the peons on the floor?

Since you and others don't like the thought of AMP, AMFA or anything/anyone else taking over the representation of AA's Title One and Related, stop and consider why a drive to replace your darling union as representation is takingplace, get off your dead ass and attempt, as others have with little (no pun intended) success, to create an environment that will keep out any credible/viable threat to your favorite union's supremacy. People don't try to effect change simply for the hell of it - they do so because there's a friggin' major problem.

Don't like the problem? Then fix what you've got already (if Little Jimmy will allow it) and change it for the benefit of the membership, or shut the hell up and let others with the 'nads to do something to fix the problem. I'm sure they'll let you know when they're done with the hard work and need a whiner or two for their entertainment.

Don't like the obvious solution? Take three running jumps and go straight to hell - do not pass go, do not collect $200.00.

Your turn - go ahead with the insults and whining.

 

[KUKUY]

After reading your post, I think your handle of "KuKuy" is an understatement! Che Guevera is nothing short of a mass murderer. To think of how many Americans have fought and died to stem the expansion of communism around the world, including some of my relatives - you ought to be ashamed of yourself.


Your idea of unionism and mine are different. You want to hold onto something that benefits you, by using another workgroup that has a skill that is marketable. I say you're selfish, if not lazy. Then you want to try the old guilt trip routine - not gonna happen pal - I'm married! Take your best shot.

What AMP will do is eliminate from the formula the "INTERNATIONAL" from the equation. That alone would open the process up. Our dues money would no longer have to be diverted to activities that have nothing to do with making our lives and careers better.

As far as history books go here's a link for you: http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods30.html

That is the real truth - not the crap your typical left leaning teachers or professors are going to pass off as fact. B)

Remember My Lai, Viet Nam. I served during the Viet Nam police action. I served my nation well for 24 years. I am proud of my service. The military was evidently appreciative of my service from the accolades I received. I am not proud of some of the decisions that the politicos forced down the military’s throat. I am proud of the men/women with whom I served. I salute those who are serving now and I am glad that the veterans are now receiving the recognition that any service man/woman has justly earned while wearing the uniform.
Difference of opinion is what this forum is about. All the skills at American are marketable. That is why AA pays wages for people to work there. I am not lazy or selfish if I want to raise the benefits of all working at AA. I say it is a goal that is achievable. As far as your marital status is concerned, maybe three entities are concerned: you, your spouse and the IRS.
Diverting money to activities that have nothing to do with making our lives and careers better, is too vague to address. Read a little on Willy Lynch. The principals of his control philosophy are ever so present today and are being applied to the members of the TWU today. The scariest issue is that people are allowing themselves to circum to that ethos. Open your eyes to see. The company is laughing while we have this internal struggle. The company could not destroy our union more completely than we of the union can. Howard Zinn is an author who is not afraid of the truth. Read one of his books to open your eyes.

 

[TWU informer]

...Snip

Diverting money to activities that have nothing to do with making our lives and careers better, is too vague to address. Read a little on Willy Lynch. The principals of his control philosophy are ever so present today and are being applied to the members of the TWU today. The scariest issue is that people are allowing themselves to circum to that ethos. Open your eyes to see. The company is laughing while we have this internal struggle. The company could not destroy our union more completely than we of the union can. Howard Zinn is an author who is not afraid of the truth. Read one of his books to open your eyes.

Using Willy Lynch as a reference as if we are slaves is rediculous and offensive.

If you are true soildier (vietnam vet) of democracy then sign your card and call for an election.

We are not pitted against each other on my mind, there are simply some that want a vote on representation of our choice. Are you opposed to a membership vote?

If the TWU and AA had not coherced the NMB to refuse the election when AMFA organizers filed the cards in 2003, and instead held an election, we might have resolved this matter long ago.

Why do you and TWU supporters fear the membership voting? This is a real simple process, you sign your card, the NMB holds a vote, and the majority rules. Using fear and intimidation to deny workers a vote of their choice of representation is about us Un-American as it gets as far as I am concerned. Remaining on the property by denial of that vote, or use of corruption is what destroys your union, not those that can see through the smoke screen and are seeking change. You make it sound like excercising our rights under United States Federal Law is the problem. I beg to differ with you, the problem is those using every under handed tactic available to deny worker choice is the problem.

So you were over fighting Charilie in your younger years and today you defend and have allegiance to a Union who's Constitution was founded and original formation funded by Communist. How Ironic. And now you equate us all to slaves to make a point. Wow. You want to read a book that really has something to do with these matters... try "In Transit" by Joshua Freeman.

I could give a crap less if the company is laughing about the workers wanting to change unions. That would be better than having them to continue to laugh at us everytime we send fools up against them in negotiations and arbitration. Or better yet, while they laugh at their control over a once a month arbitration schedule while Local 514 has a backlog of over 1100 grievances.

I personally find your reference to professional and skilled airline workers as if we are slaves from the 1700's shows further why you are a TWU supporter and that you actually have contempt for us as a group deserving better reprenstation.

I bet you wouldnt say that crap if you were not hiding behind an alias. Do you also where a white hood on the weekends while you post you this type of information?

Is KUKUY really a cover for KKK?

William (Willie) Lynch, a British slave owner in the West Indies, and came to United States to advise American slave owners how to keep their slaves restrained, according to the essay in Brother Man: The Odyssey of Black Men in America- an Anthology. Lynching or Lynch Law is actually attributed to him. Lynching initially referred to the hanging of the black man. The William Lynch Speech or letter is from an unknown origin which attracted widespread attention when it was scattered on the internet by 1990s. It was said to be addressed to an audience on the bank of the James River in Virginia in 1712 regarding the control of slaves in the colony. William Lynch was the speaker was summoned to Virginia in 1712, due to a few slave revolts in the area prior to his visit, and his dubious reputation of being an authoritative and strict slave owner. Believers in the substantiality of the William Lynch Speech called it mental slavery.

 

[Tex-Mech]

Howard Zinn is an author who is not afraid of the truth. Read one of his books to open your eyes.

I have read and "comprehended" many of his books. You can't be a follower of Zinn's writings and be an apologist of the TWU. He has to be rolling in his grave with your comment.

 

[aapitbull]

For ten years the amfa has been riding the coattails of the IBT. Yes, you are correct. Losing work is any credible union’s concern. Now that you have questioned my femininity/masculinity, I must retreat into the abyss of shame and be quiet now. The sky isn’t blue where you come from. The roll over association amfa, has no power. Maybe if amfa kicks it up an amp or two the toaster will work. Sit amfa. Sit. That is a pet association. Amfa knows well the rollover trick.

I could careless what gender you are and yes you should be ashamed of bring up pro communist views and slavery, hell why don't you drag the Nazi's in to finish the trifecta, you may need to consult someone on your views you seem a little scatter brained to me. it is interesting you keep stating that AMFA has no power yet they represent the highest paid in the passenger part of the industry.

At the end of the day the SWA mechanics could vote AMFA out and go back to the Teamsters I wonder why they have not if what you say is true. further more why would the facilities guys ask for a election to join AMFA?


Keep talking AMP will replace the TWU before you know it.

 

[KUKUY]

Using Willy Lynch as a reference as if we are slaves is rediculous and offensive.

If you are true soildier (vietnam vet) of democracy then sign your card and call for an election.

We are not pitted against each other on my mind, there are simply some that want a vote on representation of our choice. Are you opposed to a membership vote?

If the TWU and AA had not coherced the NMB to refuse the election when AMFA organizers filed the cards in 2003, and instead held an election, we might have resolved this matter long ago.

Why do you and TWU supporters fear the membership voting? This is a real simple process, you sign your card, the NMB holds a vote, and the majority rules. Using fear and intimidation to deny workers a vote of their choice of representation is about us Un-American as it gets as far as I am concerned. Remaining on the property by denial of that vote, or use of corruption is what destroys your union, not those that can see through the smoke screen and are seeking change. You make it sound like excercising our rights under United States Federal Law is the problem. I beg to differ with you, the problem is those using every under handed tactic available to deny worker choice is the problem.

So you were over fighting Charilie in your younger years and today you defend and have allegiance to a Union who's Constitution was founded and original formation funded by Communist. How Ironic. And now you equate us all to slaves to make a point. Wow. You want to read a book that really has something to do with these matters... try "In Transit" by Joshua Freeman.

I could give a crap less if the company is laughing about the workers wanting to change unions. That would be better than having them to continue to laugh at us everytime we send fools up against them in negotiations and arbitration. Or better yet, while they laugh at their control over a once a month arbitration schedule while Local 514 has a backlog of over 1100 grievances.

I personally find your reference to professional and skilled airline workers as if we are slaves from the 1700's shows further why you are a TWU supporter and that you actually have contempt for us as a group deserving better reprenstation.

I bet you wouldnt say that crap if you were not hiding behind an alias. Do you also where a white hood on the weekends while you post you this type of information?

Is KUKUY really a cover for KKK?

The principal of class and classification, the concept of one being younger than the other, the concept of one being smarter than the other, the concept of one being prettier than the other, the concept of one being lighter than the other and the concept that one is stronger than the other was used to break up the emerging unity of the enslaved. The unity of the slaves was getting to be too much for the owners. To keep the landowner's standard of living and control the slaves, the slave owners called on Lynch. Can’t see those same principals being used here and now? For me to sit back and allow you to taunt how great it would be if the TWU were to be voted out is ridiculous. As you campaign for a vote to remove the TWU, I have the same right to campaign to keep the TWU. Get used to the fact that yours is not the only voice.
In every group of individuals there are differences of opinions on how to reach their common goal. A vote is not objectionable to me. I invite a vote. I will campaign for my beliefs as you do now. You cannot suppress my opinion. Unity is our strength. No one work group represented by the TWU is more important than any other at AA. That is my assertion. No organization pleases all its members. In a democracy individuals have to give up some liberties, because the Majority rules. But, in a moral question, what does the majority have to do with it?
I am not ashamed of my DD214 or my patriotism. Who I am is of no consequence. My beliefs and how I convey them is what should concern you.

 

[TWU informer]

But, in a moral question, what does the majority have to do with it?
I am not ashamed of my DD214 or my patriotism.

Who I am is of no consequence. My beliefs and how I convey them is what should concern you.

Snip more slaves and willi
Ok Fair enough, but how about you try conveying your beliefs head on and right up front instead of using parables about Willi Lynch and Communist?

What exaclty is your plan to correct what is happening to us as a work group?

I am interested in your plan, if you have one.

Or maybe you defend the TWU because you feel comfortable, un-threatened, and happy with what you have now?

 

[aapitbull]

The principal of class and classification, the concept of one being younger than the other, the concept of one being smarter than the other, the concept of one being prettier than the other, the concept of one being lighter than the other and the concept that one is stronger than the other was used to break up the emerging unity of the enslaved. The unity of the slaves was getting to be too much for the owners. To keep the landowner's standard of living and control the slaves, the slave owners called on Lynch. Can’t see those same principals being used here and now? For me to sit back and allow you to taunt how great it would be if the TWU were to be voted out is ridiculous. As you campaign for a vote to remove the TWU, I have the same right to campaign to keep the TWU. Get used to the fact that yours is not the only voice.
In every group of individuals there are differences of opinions on how to reach their common goal. A vote is not objectionable to me. I invite a vote. I will campaign for my beliefs as you do now. You cannot suppress my opinion. Unity is our strength. No one work group represented by the TWU is more important than any other at AA. That is my assertion. No organization pleases all its members. In a democracy individuals have to give up some liberties, because the Majority rules. But, in a moral question, what does the majority have to do with it?
I am not ashamed of my DD214 or my patriotism. Who I am is of no consequence. My beliefs and how I convey them is what should concern you.

Fine with me, than join me in calling on all members regardless of which side their on to sign a card and lets vote because you better get used to the fact that this is not ever going to go away until we vote.

NO VOTE NO PEACE!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

Notice the TWU Supporters complain like heck about those seeking change.

Ask them their plan to stop the injustice we are suffering
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And you get
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Silence