Wretched Wrench
Veteran
- Apr 21, 2003
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PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH said:
Gee Whiz. If you're gonna out a guy, at least spell his name right.
Twu Soliciting Scabs At Kc Base
- Thread starter AMFAMAN
- Start date
Gee Whiz. If you're gonna out a guy, at least spell his name right.
DECISION 2007
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- Mar 19, 2004
- 101
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Checking it Out said:
Actually even loyal TWU members were appauled that STS were allowed on AA property, myself included.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #34
DECISION 2007 said:
Knowing many AMT's both pro twu and AMFA at MCI, horrified and disgusted were the comments I have heard. Topping that off with documented proof that Jim Little was in AA mangement for 6 years, I have had a few phones calls that I got an ear full. Most of them were, how could you guys allow this union to remain on the property for so long. My answer was simple, that's why we started the drive almost 7 years ago.
aafsc,May 12 2005, 04:03 AM]
Like you, I'm not a big TWU-AFL-CIO fan.
Ok, so what are you doing about it? Ever hear of the AGW?
I am in total agreement with you with regards to A and P compensation with premiums for those who live in high cost areas.
The same would go for FSCs and other workers too.
I feel that the union should remedy this situation. While you can live like a king on $30/hr in TUL, AFW, and MCI; In places like NYC and California $30/hr is below average. As you said some of the heavy overhaul work is done here in the USA at places like TIMCO. I know a laid off NW AMT who went to work at TIMCO after his layoff and he did not stay there very long. He said it was horrible and the pay there is less than the airlines are paying.
So far we have had around 10 people quit this year at JFK, most left the industry.
As I have posted before, I think AMFA will be a big disappointment at UA and NW.
Well in order for AMFA to truly be successful they need to get AA. Then they will pretty much have an overwhelming majority of aircraft mechanics speaking with one voice, a proven concept. That doesnt mean easy street but it does offer us hope, which is more than we have now.
Although they got the $35/hr at NW, they have laid off a lot of AMTs.
So has AA. We have lost at least 4000 mechanics, and thats not even counting all the jobs that were lost due to R&D and SRPs.
That is what Lorenzo did when he came to EAL. When he got his meat hooks into EAL, EAL had about 40,000 employees and 300 planes. At the time of the strike, he had hacked it down to about 20,000 employees and 150 planes. At strike time just about everybody in the unions walked. Within about a month he had parts of EAL flying again by hiring scabs.
Well EAL did fail.
My point: When you reduce the number of people, they are easier to replace.
Well in our situation its the opposite. The fact is we have less people, but we have nearly as many flights. So the people produce more. It would be much harder to replace seasoned, productive employees with scabs and get the same performance.
Bringing in replacements is not as easy as it was years ago thanks to 9-11.
So at NW and UA, with fewer than half of the AMTs left, they will be easier to replace.
I dissagree. Those that are left are line mechanics, they are harder to replace in large part because of location, where the airlines compete with other industries for skilled mechanics. For instance a few weeks back two veteran mechanics quit at JFK and went to work for Con Ed, the electric company. Another quit last week to go work for the Police dept fixing radios.
If you want to dump the TWU and get all the AMTs under one organization, why don't you bring back ALMA and push for it at the other airlines?
Why? That would only fracture the profession even more. What in particular dont you like about AMFA? The fact is they have an extremely Democratic Constitution. The members can recall any elected officer. In the TWU there is no recall for International officers.Wouldnt you love to have the option to recall Little and put him back to work under the conditions he put in place?
As far as Junior fleetservice goes AA did away with this classification because it was a dismal failure. The pay was so low that the turnover rate was very high.
Thats true, JR FSC were given a raise because the minimum wage was more than what the TWU negotiated.
AA had to raise the wages to "normal" fleetservice levels to keep people.
Dont you think its pathetic when a company is forced to raise wages because they cant get people when there is a union on the property? If the union cant secure decent wages then why have them?
As for part time, a minority want part time just for the benefits.
That minority being part timers of course. Part timers destroy OT and also divide the workforce. Since they are part time (voluntary) they do not share the same objectives. Remember part timers pay full dues and have a full vote, that why the TWU loves having part timers, they get double the dues that thay would get if they only had full timers.
Just remember the people who were hired in on the B-scale were not on the property to vote for it. It was voted in by the "A" scalers who later complained about it. In effect the "B" scalers took the paycuts for the "A" scalers. Maybe instead of voting it in the 1980s, they should have struck AA instead of capitulating to Crandall.
Ed Koziatek told me straight out, "The TWU will never strike at AA".
In my opinion, AA will come back and demand paycuts that will equal what UA people will make.
AA already has bigger concessions in place, however thats always been the case. The cornerstone of AA's business plan and TWU partnership is lower costs, not equal costs, so yes, AA will come back for more-and the TWU will make sure they get it.
As we speak, Tilton is cutting their throats with pensions gone today and wages reduced tommorrow. I think that they will end up at USAir levels. In the case of ramp $17/hr with no pension. I have written this job off and am ready to go someplace else when the time comes. I have already given up my career at EAL for "the good of the industry wages". Obviously, people at UA and US are not willing to do the same, which is their choice. So when AA comes around again I won't be advocating "burn the house down". Hopefully, they will offer a good severance and I will retire very very early.
Dont get your hopes up. Why offer anything if they can lower your wage without buying you out? If you stay your wage will be lower than what they would need to offer in order to get anyone to take the job.
Like you, I'm not a big TWU-AFL-CIO fan.
Ok, so what are you doing about it? Ever hear of the AGW?
I am in total agreement with you with regards to A and P compensation with premiums for those who live in high cost areas.
The same would go for FSCs and other workers too.
I feel that the union should remedy this situation. While you can live like a king on $30/hr in TUL, AFW, and MCI; In places like NYC and California $30/hr is below average. As you said some of the heavy overhaul work is done here in the USA at places like TIMCO. I know a laid off NW AMT who went to work at TIMCO after his layoff and he did not stay there very long. He said it was horrible and the pay there is less than the airlines are paying.
So far we have had around 10 people quit this year at JFK, most left the industry.
As I have posted before, I think AMFA will be a big disappointment at UA and NW.
Well in order for AMFA to truly be successful they need to get AA. Then they will pretty much have an overwhelming majority of aircraft mechanics speaking with one voice, a proven concept. That doesnt mean easy street but it does offer us hope, which is more than we have now.
Although they got the $35/hr at NW, they have laid off a lot of AMTs.
So has AA. We have lost at least 4000 mechanics, and thats not even counting all the jobs that were lost due to R&D and SRPs.
That is what Lorenzo did when he came to EAL. When he got his meat hooks into EAL, EAL had about 40,000 employees and 300 planes. At the time of the strike, he had hacked it down to about 20,000 employees and 150 planes. At strike time just about everybody in the unions walked. Within about a month he had parts of EAL flying again by hiring scabs.
Well EAL did fail.
My point: When you reduce the number of people, they are easier to replace.
Well in our situation its the opposite. The fact is we have less people, but we have nearly as many flights. So the people produce more. It would be much harder to replace seasoned, productive employees with scabs and get the same performance.
Bringing in replacements is not as easy as it was years ago thanks to 9-11.
So at NW and UA, with fewer than half of the AMTs left, they will be easier to replace.
I dissagree. Those that are left are line mechanics, they are harder to replace in large part because of location, where the airlines compete with other industries for skilled mechanics. For instance a few weeks back two veteran mechanics quit at JFK and went to work for Con Ed, the electric company. Another quit last week to go work for the Police dept fixing radios.
If you want to dump the TWU and get all the AMTs under one organization, why don't you bring back ALMA and push for it at the other airlines?
Why? That would only fracture the profession even more. What in particular dont you like about AMFA? The fact is they have an extremely Democratic Constitution. The members can recall any elected officer. In the TWU there is no recall for International officers.Wouldnt you love to have the option to recall Little and put him back to work under the conditions he put in place?
As far as Junior fleetservice goes AA did away with this classification because it was a dismal failure. The pay was so low that the turnover rate was very high.
Thats true, JR FSC were given a raise because the minimum wage was more than what the TWU negotiated.
AA had to raise the wages to "normal" fleetservice levels to keep people.
Dont you think its pathetic when a company is forced to raise wages because they cant get people when there is a union on the property? If the union cant secure decent wages then why have them?
As for part time, a minority want part time just for the benefits.
That minority being part timers of course. Part timers destroy OT and also divide the workforce. Since they are part time (voluntary) they do not share the same objectives. Remember part timers pay full dues and have a full vote, that why the TWU loves having part timers, they get double the dues that thay would get if they only had full timers.
Just remember the people who were hired in on the B-scale were not on the property to vote for it. It was voted in by the "A" scalers who later complained about it. In effect the "B" scalers took the paycuts for the "A" scalers. Maybe instead of voting it in the 1980s, they should have struck AA instead of capitulating to Crandall.
Ed Koziatek told me straight out, "The TWU will never strike at AA".
In my opinion, AA will come back and demand paycuts that will equal what UA people will make.
AA already has bigger concessions in place, however thats always been the case. The cornerstone of AA's business plan and TWU partnership is lower costs, not equal costs, so yes, AA will come back for more-and the TWU will make sure they get it.
As we speak, Tilton is cutting their throats with pensions gone today and wages reduced tommorrow. I think that they will end up at USAir levels. In the case of ramp $17/hr with no pension. I have written this job off and am ready to go someplace else when the time comes. I have already given up my career at EAL for "the good of the industry wages". Obviously, people at UA and US are not willing to do the same, which is their choice. So when AA comes around again I won't be advocating "burn the house down". Hopefully, they will offer a good severance and I will retire very very early.
Dont get your hopes up. Why offer anything if they can lower your wage without buying you out? If you stay your wage will be lower than what they would need to offer in order to get anyone to take the job.
Hackman said:
They were just afforded an opportunity to continue employment somewhere. I am sure they are smart enough to know if it means crossing a picket line, turn it down. These are grown men that can make up their own mind and do what is best for them and their family. The union did not advocate STS coming to the base. I have to commend MCI for at least trying to help the furloughed members find employment in these tough times.
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #40
My World said:
Yes the embarassment is getting to them so they drag their bed pAArtner in on it. To late, the damage is done, your credibility is shot. Bottom line, Local 530 Officers are scab recruiters who insulted their membership. The opportunity to scab should never be mentioned nor allowed on union property period. If the company dragged this STS guy in, you as the union should drag his ass out. There is no valid excuse for this crap.
BTW...What Part of Union Don't You Understand?
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Yeah,
That's it!
Let the TWU and AA screw you out of seniortiy, lie to you about attrition and job security.
And then still defend them when they are together hiring scabs.
What next My World?
You gonna cross a picket line at UAL for employment?
Big questions:
How many times must you be screwed and lied to before you finally get it?
That's it!
Let the TWU and AA screw you out of seniortiy, lie to you about attrition and job security.
And then still defend them when they are together hiring scabs.
What next My World?
You gonna cross a picket line at UAL for employment?
Big questions:
How many times must you be screwed and lied to before you finally get it?
Wretched Wrench
Veteran
- Apr 21, 2003
- 1,626
- 12
AMFAMAN said:
Are you sure it is NWA? Could be AAL.
Hackman
Veteran
- Sep 30, 2003
- 3,997
- 892
- Banned
- #44
Sounds like NWA management pricks are planning a lockout or the like because AMFA won't bend over like a twu cheap whore for concessions.AMFAMAN said:
It figures the sellout twu would assist manAAgement in union busting after they lied to MCI and claimed they "saved" the base.
:down: :angry: :down: :angry:
Bob Owens said:
1.Yes, I have heard of the AGW. Only when I saw one of their stickers in the belly of a super 80. And of course from you. I have visited their website and read other things about them on the web. It seems that they use the same people (the McCormick group in Laconia, NH) that AMFA uses. They have basically the same address in NH. AGW is basically AMFA without Delle-Femine. Looking at the TWU and AGW, I think AA Ramp would be better served by an independent union like APA or APFA.
2. I agree. Not only AMTs should get premiums for high cost areas but ramp and everyone else as well. I would not object to my fellow AA ramper in NYC, CA, or any other high cost area making a few dollars more an hour than myself. I only mentioned AMTs because that is all that seems to post here.
3. We also have people leaving, retiring, or retiring early. Additionally, quite a few people on layoff turned down the recall to come back.
4. All airlines have laid off because they have grounded aircraft.
5. Thank God EAL did not make it Lorenzo at the helm.
6. There is talk on other websites that UA and NW are now lining up scabs in case there is a strike.
7. What I don't like about AMFA is that , first, they seems to be disorganized at the airlines they represent. Second, everyone knows that you get laid off in this business. 5 years or less, definately. 5-10 years, maybe. But with 15 years, you should have job security at the airline you started with ( I don't include people bringing their seniority from a dead company in this).
8. Yes. I think it is absolutely pathetic that the starting wages for AA ramp ($8/hr) are below market rates . Fedex is non-union and I know someone who just started there on their ramp and they start out at $12/hr. The overall payscale at the upper end is at or slightly below market rates. When you have a union and pay dues, you should make more than the market rate. Otherwise, why pay dues? The TWU should AT LEAST lower the dues.
9. AA may have bigger concessions than UA in terms of maintanence. You cite push backs, air starts, OSMs and SRPs. True, the AA AMTs did lose these items. But it was a gain for other AA employees, notably ramp. Obviously ramp does airstarts and pushes. A large number of ramp people took those SRP and OSM positions ( I know a quite a few) and some of those went on and got their A and P tickets. But I think if you compare a what a long time AA AMT lost (Push backs, air starts, OSMs and SRPs to AA ramp people) to what a long time UA AMT lost (ESOP, Pensions, retiree health care, multiple paycuts( with more to come) and loss of all heavy maintnanence with the closure of 2 mx bases (possibly the 3rd at SFO)with the associated layoffs, it looks to me that in total the UA AMTs lost a whole lot more.
10. I'm not holding my breath on anything from AA. In my opinion, AA knows the demographics of their workforce. Many have left, many of the laid off have turned down recall. Between the people hired on in the late 60s and early 70s, the Braniff people hired in the late 80s, the EAL and Pan Am people hired in the early 1990s, and the almost all senior TWA people still here, these all add up to people who are at or near retirement age. Almost all are ready to go, they are holding out for even a little something. I believe AA will offer them that little something at the expense of the people in the middle and the majority (would be retirees) will vote it in.
