Twu Sellout Force Majuere

[Decision 2004]

Is this the "GRIEVANCE" that was settled with some letter on outsource work? Say it wasn't the Force Majeure 29D the TWU sold out on?

Can one of you TWU worshippers explain what happened here? This states there was a decision today. What is the decision?

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

I am Mike Emmons of Longwood, FL, a computer software engineer.

I am also, one of approximately 20 Americans that were ordered by corporate management to train our foreign replacement workers. Our replacement workers are Tata Consulting India employees, holders of congressionally sanctioned H-1b and L-1 work visas.

Siemens brought the Americans into a room and told them that they would be laid off, but first they said: We want you to train your replacements. They held out a carrot for the Americans, stay on and train your replacements then we’ll give you this severance when you leave.

Once Tata employees were on site, they immediately began interviewing us on how to do our jobs.

For the past 19 years I have educated and re-educated myself so I could compete in the ever changing industry of IT. I thought I had done well? Who knew my own government would create replacement programs to put me out of work. I had upgraded my skills from the 80’s COBOL to 4GL, Database design, to the mid 90’s of web development and finally, in the late 90’s, I expanded my skill set to include Enterprise application integration; messaging based technology that enables seamless integration of disparate applications. We were ordered to train our replacements how this new technology works.

As a self-employed contractor; 6 years at Siemens, I was not offered a severance. They just assumed the contractors would go along with the plan. Many ask, why didn’t you just quit? The job market is incredibly bleak. Though, we keep hearing about an economic recovery, working Americans don’t see it. I stayed on because my concern will always be the medical care of our handicapped daughter. I stayed on until I landed a job. I left on my own accord Nov 2002, 20 days before my exit date.

Though my income is much less, I consider myself the lucky American; not so for many of my ex-coworkers. Some spent their 401ks to survive while foreigners live and work in our own backyards. The bottom line is these are highly trained, well-educated Americans that are pushed out of jobs in our own country; all in the quest for cheap labor.

A “Tata†told us they make $3,000 per month. Of that $2,000 is paid as expenses to work in the USA and $1,000 paid in Indian rupees. They get $24,000/year tax free to work in the USA while tax paying Americans go to the unemployment line.

It is my opinion that Tata Consulting has done this so many times they had become complacent, just like a burglar does. They put their entire project documentation on a Siemens shared drive, 500MB/800 documents. They had never run into a “Mike Emmons.†Thinking I was going to help my fellow co-workers I took this information, burned it on a CD and mailed it to my Representative, Senators, DOL Secretary Elaine Chao, BCIS/INS and our DOJ attorney, Anthony Archeval. After the DOJ required 120 days elapsed Anthony wrote me back stating they did not want to pursue the case. He said we had not given them enough evidence. He said “these cases are hard to winâ€. He tried to get us to claim age discrimination. It is not about age, it is discrimination against Americans.

Among those documents are the infamous “Knowledge Transition†documents. That would be documents Tata employees created that describing what Americans trained them. They documented what we were ordered to train them.

This is not about me. It never was. This is about a Congress that has denied opportunities for millions of Americans. Congress continues to spout out that Americans need to get retrained. We’re training our competition to take our jobs. And our Congress allows this because Corporations want cheap labor and Congress wants corporate campaign donations.

I’ve read in the news where Harris Miller has stated Siemens is an isolated case. That is so very far from the truth. Siemens is in the news because I chose to not give up, because I chose to be blackballed from the industry, but I, Mike Emmons, am one proud American that has stood up for millions of Americans being shortchanged by our government’s cheap labor policies.

For the past 18 months I have actively pursued bringing awareness to this gross injustice. The replacement of American workers is epidemic across America. People from all over the country have contacted me, stating virtually the same thing.

I will read these until you tell me to stop. The following are stories and situations that have come to me, describing the use of congressional visas to displace well educated American citizens.

Siemens Shared Services Orlando used the L-1 visa to import Siemens India employees. They ordered their Accounts Payable staff to train the foreign workers then laid off the Americans. Shared Services, AP department is now predominately Indian workers.

JP Morgan Tampa hired Tata Consulting to replace their American employees. As I understand, Tata was thrown out for incompetence; replaced by Congizant, another Indian replacement firm.

NCR Corporation Dayton, Ohio is currently in the process of replacing their American workers. The winner, body shop HCL Technology India.

AT&T Wireless, Bothell, WA and Palm Beach, FL hired body shop Tata Consulting to rid their offices of American workers.

Siemens Energy & Automotive Atlanta, GA hired Infosys India to replace their American workers.

Contacts in Verizon Temple Terrance, FL told me the IT department is now 90% visa holders. The Americans have been pushed out one by one.

In Sept 2003, Dan Rather of CBS reported First Data Corp Coral Springs, FL ordered their employees to train Congizant employees, then the Americans were thrown out on the streets.

When Bank of America Concord, CA employee Kevin Flanagan completed his replacement worker training he was laid off. That day he went to the bank parking lot and committed suicide.

On May 11, 1995 CBS 48 Hours report “Slamming the Door, Denying the Dream†described how AIG Insurance replaced 250 American workers with visa holders. Since May 11, 1995! The replacement of American workers has been going on for well over 8 years.

Per Hartford, Conn. NBC channel 30, Cigna Insurance is replacing hundreds of American workers with Satyam India employees. They reported there are over 20K unemployed Conn. IT workers. DOL reports Conn. has over 70K non-immigrant temporary workers. The CIGNA internal memo stated “in order to drive the replacement of local consultants to Satyam consultants we have put in place a closed loop process to provide Satyam first right of refusal for all consultant requests.†Regarding the 70K workers, that would be H-1b visa holders. No one knows details regarding L-1s because the Freedom of Information Act seems to not apply to L-1s. The BCIS/INS refuses to disclose this information.)

Tata Consulting and WiPro are the winners in North Carolina’s Ciena Corp replacement program.

USAA Insurance San Antonio, TX replaced their American workers. One email states: “A couple years back when our first wave of layoffs started, there were probably fewer than 100 TCS employees. Now we have over 500 and the number grows by the week, if not by the day. We also employ some Indian employees from HCL - about 80 or so. That's about 600 IT jobs that have vanished or will never be created for US citizens.â€

I have been given internal memos from Eaton Corp; they describe how Americans are asked to participate in knowledge transfer to Tata Consulting India employees; knowledge transfer occurring in Cleveland, Ohio.

I have more memos from Cutler-Hammer, Pittsburgh describing the same thing; the memo from Ray Huber, VP Information Technology states “Over the next few days we will be contacting affected individuals within our organization regarding our transition support.â€

On March 10, 2003, because I contacted them, Business Week reported that half of Tata Consulting 5,000 workers are L-1 visa holders. “What's more, L-1s allow employees to remain in the U.S. for up to seven years and can include multiple workers; H-1Bs are issued to individuals, who are limited to six-year stays. There were 384,000 people working in the U.S. on H-1Bs in 2001, the last year available, and at 329,000, nearly as many on L-1s. In more recent news reports Tata will not disclose the quantity of L-1 workers they use.

AT&T Orlando, FL replaced American consultants weeks after the arrival of their replacement workers from India.

Feb 16-19 2003, WKMG CBS Orlando aired “Where did the jobs go?†This 4 day report described the ill effects of H-1b and L-1 visas. The report received more replies than any other report they have ever done, bar none. Fall 2003, it was nominated for an Emmy. If you don’t believe me, contact Terri Spitz 407-521-1305 and ask her.

On Sept 24, 1998 Honorable Representative Dana Rohrabacher of California stated on the House floor:

"There are hundreds of thousands of workers from developing countries, indeed, that are willing to work for less. But the fact that they (the corporations) are importing them will take pressure off people to train our own people or to increase the wages of our people so those people will get their own training. The effect of this bill is to bring down the market wage for our high-tech workers.

It is called supply and demand. That is what we believe in. We Republicans especially are supposed to believe in that. It is not just supposed to work for the benefit of big companies; it is supposed to work for the benefit of all of our people. It will also reduce the incentives for companies to reeducate and retrain employees or unemployed Americans. It will provide an incentive for companies to lay off senior employees before they qualify for retirement or if they need health benefits, which people who get older need. Instead, it will bring on people who are from developing countries who are willing to work for a lot less and are a lot younger,...

To whom are we loyal? Whom do we care about? We are supposed to care about the American people."

I refer to Honorable Rohrabacher as Nostramadus. He hit the nail on the head except one thing and that is the effect of the bill. It would be better stated “The INTENT of this bill is to bring down the market wage for our high-tech workers; the EFFECT has been the replacement of American high-tech workers.

I have received many other emails from victims of L-1 and H-1b visa abuse; victims of body shops like Tata, Infosys, Satyam, WiPro, and HCL. Some of those include Target and Best Buy Minneapolis, Coca-Cola Atlanta, Harris Corp Melbourne, FL, Peoplesoft, Pleasanton, CA, Chevron-Texaco, CA, Lockheed-Martin Colorado Springs, Intel, Hewlett-Packard, and American Express.

The United States government has created the very tools that are being used to transfer jobs out of our country. With these programs Congress states we will be able to educate and retrain people. These are the very programs that are forcing Americans out of technical fields. Education is their red herring, all a politician has to do to distract attention away from the facts is push the Education Button.

I believe we all know what they are doing, the U.S. Congress fails to act because money talks. Corporate campaign donations trump the livelihoods of their constituents.

The U.S. government created the “golden egg†for knowledge transfer. In my opinion, it is not the corporations that are completely at fault. They are only doing what our government has allowed them to do. The fault lies solely in the hands of the U.S. government, specifically the United States Congress.

Mike Emmons for Congress, FL District 7

407-786-2595 Home

407-756-0918 Cell

www.EmmonsforCongress.com/

www.OutsourceCognress.org/

www.OutsourceCongress.org/video/

www.OutsourceCongress.org/mica/Mica_L1.html

www.Outsource Congress.org/mica/

www.itpaa.org/

www.toraw.org/

www.HireAmericanCitizens.org/

www.zazona.com/

www.RescueAmericanJobs.org/

www.naea.us/

www.techrevolt.org/

www.american-champions.org/

www.americanjobscoalition.org/

www.americanworker.org/

www.cwalocal4250.org/outsourcing/

heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.others.html

www.h1b.info/

www.awcorg.us/

www2.familyinjustice.com:8080/familyinjustice/h1b/

www.zazona.com/ShameH1B/

www.geocities.com/H1BAction/

www.hireamerica.us/

www.ieeeusa.org/forum/issues/H1bvisa/index.html

www.insourceamerica.org/

www.itunemployed.com/xaraya/index.php

www.madinusa.org/

www.nomoreh1b.com/

www.programmersguildusa.com/

www.the-cia.net/users/country/sellmain.htm

www.techsunite.org/

www.us1st.org/

www.h-1bs.com/

www.stopoffshoreoutsourcing.com/

www.yourjobisgoingtoindia.com/

www.vdare.com/

www.theamericancause.org/

www.fairjobs.org/

www.saveusjobs.biz/

stoptheinvasion.com/h1b/

 

[Decision 2004]

American attendants make over union leadership

By Trebor Banstetter

Star-Telegram Staff Writer

FORT WORTH _ American Airlines flight attendants have voted to throw out three of their union's national officers, and the top job remains too close to call.

According to initial results, which were tabulated late Wednesday and released Thursday, John Ward, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, defeated challenger Tommie Hotto-Blake by 7 votes, out of nearly 15,000 cast.

Under its constitution, union officials were required to do a manual re-count of all the votes, because none passed by a margin of greater than 10 percent.

But it appears likely that there will be new leaders in three of the four national officer positions. Brett Durkin defeated union vice president Ted Bedwell by a margin of 1,037 votes; Greg Hildreth defeated secretary Linda Lanning by 865 votes and Cathy Herman Lukensmeyer defeated Treasurer Juan Johnson by 817 votes.

Hotto-Blake, Durkin, Hildreth and Lukensmeyer ran as a slate, criticizing Ward and his fellow offices on a variety of issues ranging from last year's concessions deal to bread-and-butter labor issues like financial accountability.

If Ward loses, he will be the second of American's three top union leaders who negotiated concessions to leave the job. John Darrah, president of the pilots' union, said earlier this year that he will not run for re-election.

Jim Little, who oversees American's ground workers for the Transport Workers Union, is an appointed, rather than elected, official.

 

[limit]

Well folks I must tell you; it has been confirmed.
We called all our friends and relatives down in FL and they told us that all the TaTa people they talked to were adamant about it:
Johnny Lunchbox and Mike Emmons of Longwood, FL, are the same person.
The Tatas also added that if they could vote, the would all vote for Johnny-Mike, because he is a person of high integrity.
Unfortunately, they cannot get their papers in order fast enough.
Not to worry Johnny-Mike.
We put in a good word with our people down there, and they will do a good job
for you Johnny-Mike, as they are well connected with the retiree crowd.
If only we could vote in FL you would probably be all set.
In the mean time, if there is an election we will just vote for AMFA.
I hope this helps.

 

[Bob Owens]

Is this the "GRIEVANCE" that was settled with some letter on outsource work? Say it wasn't the Force Majeure 29D the TWU sold out on?

Can one of you TWU worshippers explain what happened here? This states there was a decision today. What is the decision?

Remember how many times the TWU said this case was going to be heard? Next month, no next month, no in three months, no in six months. I think they were hoping that we would just forget about it.

At the 2001 Convention I asked Jim Little about the status of the Force Majeure grievance and when we were going to go forward with it. He gave me a strange look. I asked, "Dont you think we will win it?" He said "Sure we will win it but we will bankrupt the company!"

"Bankrupt the company I replied! How could it bankrupt the company to simply make them live up to the contract! Thats Bull."

Jim excused himself and said he had something to do.


We can see who comes first with the TWU-the company, thanks to the $3 million they voluntarily provide in financial assistance to the TWU. $3 million that does not show up on the LM-2 because it goes straight into union officials pockets.

 

[Decision 2004]

Bob,

Jim Little probably made those same comments to AA Mangement. And that is what gave them the idea to purposely drain cash at an alarming rate to secure concessions using the BK ploy.

I still have legitimate questions regarding the truth about AA "near Bk" experience.

I wonder how many of us really believe the "Lawyers are on Steps" union/company propaganda campaign.

Remember, 170 RJ's on order, 42 to be delivered this year, and a $310 Million bid for USAir shuttle.

Does that sound like a BK carrier actions to you? A year has not even passed yet, and this is what we see. Imagine what we do not see?

 

[twuer]

Hey amfa rumor mongers, (Dave and Bob) the 29D over the Force Majeure will be heard shortly. The TWU has enlisted outside counsel, (which the date of 3-12-04 represents on the report) to present the case and should be heard within a few weeks. Everybody is struggling with bad language now that Kasher awarded you amfa boys with such a great decision. Oh, by the way....YOU LOST!!!!! And not only did you lose.....you GAVE it away with the very first witness! How in the world can you expect to enforce the self proclaimed "worlds greatest" job protection when your first witness agrees with the company? Don't you think maybe Seham should've thought about that?

Ok Ok get this....... the company argues that "we had a right to envoke Force Majeure"........and amfa's arguement is......."ya but... by our calculations you laid off too many?" What kind freakin' defense is that? The FM clause in the contract has no lay-off limits! Further more the amfa agreed that even with the lay-offs that NWA was still under the 38% outsourcing cap! What kind of amature hour arbitration are you running here? On second thought, don't answer that......everyone can see it. NO wonder you lost....your clueless! What happened to skill, knowledge and integrity? I guess that doesn't apply in arbitration much less anything else you amfa boys do!

 

[Raptor]

AA has lost jobs as well, we all know that there is no such thing as job protection it just does not exist and never will, Aviation company's will man as they see fit.

The only thing that Unions have any control over is wage and benefits so we should probably concentrate on that.

 

[twuer]

Raptor,
Everyone struggles with job protection, I'll give you that. TWU has absolutely done a better job though. However, it doesn't help anyone in the industry when amfa is out getting the type of decisions and language that they obtained in either the FM1 or the MEM cleaner decisions. What's worse is that here in Tulsa on September 12th, Kevin Wildermouth committed one of the biggest "tell them what they want to hear" offenses I have ever seen. He stood up and anounced that "in the end, justice will be served" and said that "we believe our members will be coming back to work at NWA". He had the nerve to say these things even when he knew that the pilots and flight attendants had already lost FM grievances over the same occurances and knew that amfa's chances were slim. He said this for one reason only, because the amfa supporters in attendance wanted to hear it. A "feel-good" story, if you will.

And frankly the fact that amfa agreed with the company's right to envoke the "Force Majeure" flies in the face of common sense (arbitrarily speaking).

I'll tell you what TWU did not do and that is convince their people that the thing to do is to be so rigid that the company finds a way to lay you off. Sure, there is a limit, and the membership decides what that limit is. But to put peoples jobs at risk by taking a position that the association propogated and then indicate to the members that "a good paying job will be waiting for you when you get re-called" when you know full well that those jobs will never return, is flat dishonest and irresponsible. It's another time amfa told people what they wanted to hear and then failed to protect them.

Have you read any of the amfa arbitration cases lately? They are just one more reason why TWU is the better choice!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

Jim Little probably made those same comments to AA Mangement. And that is what gave them the idea to purposely drain cash at an alarming rate to secure concessions using the BK ploy.

I still have legitimate questions regarding the truth about AA "near Bk" experience.

I wonder how many of us really believe the "Lawyers are on Steps" union/company propaganda campaign.

Remember, 170 RJ's on order, 42 to be delivered this year, and a $310 Million bid for USAir shuttle.

Does that sound like a BK carrier actions to you? A year has not even passed yet, and this is what we see. Imagine what we do not see?

How exactly do you quantify the loss of "Goodwill" to $988 million? Its funny how you can lose Goodwill, wright it off, but when you get it you dont have to claim it!

 

[twuer]

Bob,

Jim Little probably made those same comments to AA Mangement. And that is what gave them the idea to purposely drain cash at an alarming rate to secure concessions using the BK ploy.

I still have legitimate questions regarding the truth about AA "near Bk" experience.

I wonder how many of us really believe the "Lawyers are on Steps" union/company propaganda campaign.

Remember, 170 RJ's on order, 42 to be delivered this year, and a $310 Million bid for USAir shuttle.

Does that sound like a BK carrier actions to you? A year has not even passed yet, and this is what we see. Imagine what we do not see?

How exactly do you quantify the loss of "Goodwill" to $988 million? Its funny how you can lose Goodwill, wright it off, but when you get it you dont have to claim it!

Hey Mr. "I think I will Jump All Over Those Who Don't Know Correct English" (that's you Bob)

Just thought I would take this oppurtunity to correct you for a change, so you could see what it feels like. . .

From Bob (Mr. Know-It-All!!)

Its funny how you can lose Goodwill, wright it off, but when you get it you dont have to claim it!

I think you meant WRITE!!!!!!

 

[Decision 2004]

I'll tell you what TWU did not do and that is convince their people that the thing to do is to be so rigid that the company finds a way to lay you off. Sure, there is a limit, and the membership decides what that limit is. But to put peoples jobs at risk by taking a position that the association propogated and then indicate to the members that "a good paying job will be waiting for you when you get re-called" when you know full well that those jobs will never return, is flat dishonest and irresponsible. It's another time amfa told people what they wanted to hear and then failed to protect them.

Have you read any of the amfa arbitration cases lately? They are just one more reason why TWU is the better choice!

Yeah,

You completely disregard the 57 Mechanics at Mesaba returning to work will FULL BACKPAY. And you certainly forget to mention both the Jim Little's "without further ratification" letter, and the Federal Judge agreement with TWU lawyers that our contract changes do NOT have to have membership ratification per the TWU Constitution, when you claim the "membership decides what the limit is".

That is exactly what happened in another way though, over 60% of the membership has decided that "the limit" to the TWU sellouts has been exceeded, and therefore AMFA filed for a representational dispute with the National Mediation Board.

We will now watch, as the TWU does everything in their power to prevent the membership from voting for AMFA against the TWU. Will Art Luby rest and allow the membership to decide the limit? Or will he make an attempt to dilute the craft and prevent the vote? My bet goes the TWU will do everything possible to prevent the "membership will decide" ballot of the NMB.

Your words will echo empty as if they were spoken into the Grand Canyon, and it will indeed be the membership speaking about "what the limit" to union tyranny means to them.

HAVE AN AMFA DAY!

 

[jake]

I'll tell you what TWU did not do and that is convince their people that the thing to do is to be so rigid that the company finds a way to lay you off. Sure, there is a limit, and the membership decides what that limit is. But to put peoples jobs at risk by taking a position that the association propogated and then indicate to the members that "a good paying job will be waiting for you when you get re-called" when you know full well that those jobs will never return, is flat dishonest and irresponsible. It's another time amfa told people what they wanted to hear and then failed to protect them.

Have you read any of the amfa arbitration cases lately? They are just one more reason why TWU is the better choice!

Yeah,

You completely disregard the 57 Mechanics at Mesaba returning to work will FULL BACKPAY. And you certainly forget to mention both the Jim Little's "without further ratification" letter, and the Federal Judge agreement with TWU lawyers that our contract changes do NOT have to have membership ratification per the TWU Constitution, when you claim the "membership decides what the limit is".

That is exactly what happened in another way though, over 60% of the membership has decided that "the limit" to the TWU sellouts has been exceeded, and therefore AMFA filed for a representational dispute with the National Mediation Board.

We will now watch, as the TWU does everything in their power to prevent the membership from voting for AMFA against the TWU. Will Art Luby rest and allow the membership to decide the limit? Or will he make an attempt to dilute the craft and prevent the vote? My bet goes the TWU will do everything possible to prevent the "membership will decide" ballot of the NMB.

Your words will echo empty as if they were spoken into the Grand Canyon, and it will indeed be the membership speaking about "what the limit" to union tyranny means to them.

HAVE AN AMFA DAY!

Dave, this board kicked you off for good reason! It's great scmafa can tout at least one victory about winning jobs because their record absolutely sucks in that area. My gosh, amfa should do something, they have cost thousands their jobs! Can you not count?? I'm glad for the 57, but what's that compared to the number lost? You've argued over and over about Jim signing the concessionary agreement "without further ratification". And what you ignore every time is the word "further", which means the membership DID in fact decide! And I'd be upset too, if I, like you, were making an ass of myself every day on these boards by thinking that you know more than anyone else, including the courts. The TWU and Jim took that position for one reason only, it's because of people like you who testify against working people who help elect government officials that make it almost impossible for the voice of labor to be heard and then cry and whine about it when you can't get the courts to see things your way. Let me spell it out for you Dave, the courts would not have ruled in our favor (they are not labor friendly at this point) if we had taken the position to pursue a re-vote and it would have cost several thousand people their jobs! The court DID agree with that! In fact it was stated that Jim and the TWU CAME TO THE ONLY REASONABLE CONCLUSION. Beyond that, you and the amfa think-tank failed to make any argument that the judge agreed with. It doesn't surprise me that you can't see the problem. You idiological morons who live in a fantasy world should wake up. We (labor) function in the environent that guys like you propogate! We (unlike you) just refuse not to pull our head out of our asses! You had your opportunity to make your very best argument on every issue that you continue to raise about the contract and absolutely fail to give creedence to the fact that you support a hostile enviroment and help elect the government officials that make it hard on us all. Everyone knows you as a lying, self serving, can't get elected outcast who desires more than you'll ever achieve. That's why when you say "over 60%", I take solice in the fact that it's you that said it (which means to me that....you don't have over 60%). If you guys do have enough then may the best man win. In a few days we'll know if you've lied once again, and if you have, it's not going to be Luby's fault, or AA's fault or the TWU's fault....if amfa fails, it will be your fault, it will be your organizers fault, it will be amfa's fault. For pete's sake, stand up for once and take responsibility, crap, you haven't taken any for the other losses that amfa has incurred, it's always someone elses fault. And speaking of tyranny, isn't it ironic that Wildermouth's "justice will be served in the end" cost hundreds of mechanics their jobs? Or does he not speak for amfa either? Did those members choose their fate or did amfa choose it for them? Isn't it ironic that the "justice"of which Wildermouth spoke was so damn easy to talk about and not so easy to produce? Isn't the "tyranny" of which you mention so much more than a word to be used by a pathetic computer geek whose sole purpose in life is to destroy an organization in which he was never respected by his peers? Doesn't it describe the wrongful, the deceiptful, the lying, the torture, and the struggle to right the wrongs that have been dished out by a cruel group or individual? Well my freind, you and amfa have been dishing it out for years, so look in the mirror. Dave, you will never be in the "majority", no matter where you are or what you do! Whether amfa gets in or not you will never be a leader. You don't have what it takes, the guts the courage the tenacity or the character and even amfa's own supporters denial of you should tell you something. Dave is out only for Dave. So let's sit back and watch the unfolding, shall we? It should be interesting!

 

[Bob Owens]

Hey Mr. "I think I will Jump All Over Those Who Don't Know Correct English" (that's you Bob)

Just thought I would take this oppurtunity to correct you for a change, so you could see what it feels like. . .

From Bob (Mr. Know-It-All!!)

Its funny how you can lose Goodwill, wright it off, but when you get it you dont have to claim it!

I think you meant WRITE!!!!!!

Hey what can I say? With the thousands of words I rite I'm bound to screw up a little.

Will you "except' my apology?

By the way, thanks for the compliment, but really, I dont know it all, just more than you!

 

[Decision 2004]

Dave, this board kicked you off for good reason! It's great scmafa can tout at least one victory about winning jobs because their record absolutely sucks in that area. My gosh, amfa should do something, they have cost thousands their jobs! Can you not count?? I'm glad for the 57, but what's that compared to the number lost?

Jake,
If I am kicked off this board, then why are still talking to me? You should be prepared for the Force Majeure II Decision still waiting in the wings. More members than FM1, and by far the easier case to argue before an arbitrator. Yes I can count, and the difference between our paychecks and a Northwest Mechanic is staggering. His Holiday Time, Vacation Time, and Medical is better than mine. He still has tuition reimbursement for schooling. He has more time everyday with his family than I do. I can count, can you? When did the TWU agenda become sarifice wages and benefits for jobs Jake, because that is not listed in the "objectives" of the organization in the Constitution? When you log in to jetnet and view e-pays, are you looking ofr how many jobs you saved this payday, or how much you have to pay bills and buy food? Tell the truth Jake. There is no column for jobs saved on your paycheck is there?

You've argued over and over about Jim signing the concessionary agreement "without further ratification". And what you ignore every time is the word "further", which means the membership DID in fact decide! And I'd be upset too, if I, like you, were making an ass of myself every day on these boards by thinking that you know more than anyone else, including the courts. The TWU and Jim took that position for one reason only, it's because of people like you who testify against working people who help elect government officials that make it almost impossible for the voice of labor to be heard and then cry and whine about it when you can't get the courts to see things your way. Let me spell it out for you Dave, the courts would not have ruled in our favor (they are not labor friendly at this point) if we had taken the position to pursue a re-vote and it would have cost several thousand people their jobs! The court DID agree with that! In fact it was stated that Jim and the TWU CAME TO THE ONLY REASONABLE CONCLUSION. Beyond that, you and the amfa think-tank failed to make any argument that the judge agreed with. It doesn't surprise me that you can't see the problem. You idiological morons who live in a fantasy world should wake up.

Oh, I see it is my fault that the Jim Little first claimed in a letter to Local 567 Vice-President that the TWU Constitution “already†required membership ratification of changes or amendments to the Labor Agreement.
See Document posted below.

And then, Laurence Gold (TWU Attorney) argued the complete opposite position when faced with a TWU Local 563 Lawsuit and claimed the TWU had a reasonable and consistent interpretation that membership ratification is NOT required in those circumstances.
See Documents posted below

Which is it jake? Does the TWU Constitution require membership ratification of changes and/or amendments to the Labor Agreement or not? This debate is not about AA and Bankruptcy and the what if’s surrounding different outcomes. I have been supporting a change to AMFA for over 5 years now. Long before the 9/11 Attacks, long before there was even a decision to make about TWU Industry Leading Concessions.

We (labor) function in the environent that guys like you propogate! We (unlike you) just refuse not to pull our head out of our asses! You had your opportunity to make your very best argument on every issue that you continue to raise about the contract and absolutely fail to give creedence to the fact that you support a hostile enviroment and help elect the government officials that make it hard on us all. Everyone knows you as a lying, self serving, can't get elected outcast who desires more than you'll ever achieve. That's why when you say "over 60%", I take solice in the fact that it's you that said it (which means to me that....you don't have over 60%). If you guys do have enough then may the best man win. In a few days we'll know if you've lied once again, and if you have, it's not going to be Luby's fault, or AA's fault or the TWU's fault....if amfa fails, it will be your fault, it will be your organizers fault, it will be amfa's fault. For pete's sake, stand up for once and take responsibility, crap, you haven't taken any for the other losses that amfa has incurred, it's always someone elses fault.

I hate to tell you this Jake, but reliance on politicians and propagation of such agenda is what has weakened labor. You and others spread fear like it is powdered cocoa for milk. The truth is Labor has never advanced by dependence on politicians, the advancements of labor occurred because men stood their ground a fought for their beliefs, Your agenda makes it easy for the weak and timid, you simply contribute to COPE, hope for a favorable politician, who usually still back stabs you, and therefore, YOU never take a stand. You are the one’s always blaming someone else. I hope I answered your point, because reading this statement left me confused on exactly what it was you were attempting to say. Maybe you could restate this without the name calling and fear mongering so I can understand your concern? Under the Railway Labor Act, the Mechanic and Related Craft or Class is a moving target under NMB control. We obtained more than 60% of what we believe is the eligible voters. Yes, we will soon know how accurate we are in our thinking. Funny thing is, we are not the group running scared now are we?

And speaking of tyranny, isn't it ironic that Wildermouth's "justice will be served in the end" cost hundreds of mechanics their jobs? Or does he not speak for amfa either? Did those members choose their fate or did amfa choose it for them? Isn't it ironic that the "justice"of which Wildermouth spoke was so damn easy to talk about and not so easy to produce? Isn't the "tyranny" of which you mention so much more than a word to be used by a pathetic computer geek whose sole purpose in life is to destroy an organization in which he was never respected by his peers? Doesn't it describe the wrongful, the deceiptful, the lying, the torture, and the struggle to right the wrongs that have been dished out by a cruel group or individual? Well my freind, you and amfa have been dishing it out for years, so look in the mirror. Dave, you will never be in the "majority", no matter where you are or what you do! Whether amfa gets in or not you will never be a leader. You don't have what it takes, the guts the courage the tenacity or the character and even amfa's own supporters denial of you should tell you something. Dave is out only for Dave. So let's sit back and watch the unfolding, shall we? It should be interesting!

As you should know there are TWO Force Majeure cases not just one. And you are a fool for taking such a stand on job loss with the largest work group decision still undetermined. And as a matter of fact, the membership at NWA has indeed decided their own fate. And if they are displeased, then they can once again sign and submit cards to the NMB for other representation. If things are as bad as you like to claim, and the TWU is superior then please show evidence there is TWU card drive at NWA and that you have even a single supporter there? I think we will soon find out how much support I have from the AMFA group at AA. Once certified, I fully intend on running on for Office, winning that election also, and proving you are the liar. Thanks for the motivation. Proving a TWU industrial unionist a liar has become my favorite hobby.

Personally I sense that you are afraid, that you are the coward, and that you fear having to stand up and fight for what you deserve. Your liberal beliefs leave you standing and waiting for the free handout, believing you are owed something either in exchange for political contributions or just because you think handouts are the government/employer function. Why do all liberals refuse to fight and work for what they deserve anyway? I have no idea why you think cowardice and accommodation is best for our profession or for organized labor as whole. Because history teaches us that working men only get what the fight for and are willing to sacrifice to gain. Show me anyhwere in history where the fear mongering coward got his fair share?

Thanks for your time Jake, I will leave you with this:

The Future:
We cannot prevail tomorrow without courageous leaders today.
We will soon choose how we will meet the challenges of the future –
With strength and conviction or with cowardice and accommodation.
I will choose strength and conviction and I hope you will also.

DOCUMENTS FOR REFERENCE: