TWU negotiations.........what?

[FWAAA]

Nonsense. Fuel and labor are the two biggest costs to the company. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper, so that leaves labor as the primary determining factor of the company's expense levels. How flexible you are in these negotiations will absolutely determine whether or not AA files bk (and hence if your contract gets gutted).

I usually agree with your posts but not with this one. IMO, labor could agree to work for half price (cut wages in half on June 30) and AMR would still post large losses this year and next, and bankruptcy would happen anyway (unless fuel drops by half to 2/3). If fuel stays high or goes higher, bankruptcy is just around the corner no matter what happens in labor negotiations. Labor could agree to another $1.62 billion of annual concessions and it wouldn't prevent bankruptcy. Labor costs no longer matter.

Unfortunately, ya don't visit bankruptcy without whacking labor contracts, so the work rules and wages will be gutted.

What will keep management from agreeing to large wage increases is the fact that large raises would just deplete the cash balance all the faster, and the remote (but real) possibility of a derivative suit if management agreed to large labor increases when it was experiencing negative operating cash flow.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Nonsense. Fuel and labor are the two biggest costs to the company. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper, so that leaves labor as the primary determining factor of the company's expense levels. How flexible you are in these negotiations will absolutely determine whether or not AA files bk (and hence if your contract gets gutted).

When I refer to labor cost, I've referring to my workgroup, maintenance. BTW...what happened to your praise of 4 days ago:

No argument here. You guys have done some amazing stuff on that front in the last five years, and should be rewarded for it.

 

[1 VF-1 2NV]

DIdn't the AA/TWU start meeting yesterday?

 

[wingit88]

Nonsense. Fuel and labor are the two biggest costs to the company. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper, so that leaves labor as the primary determining factor of the company's expense levels. How flexible you are in these negotiations will absolutely determine whether or not AA files bk (and hence if your contract gets gutted).

I understand what you are saying. This is not the time to dig in our heels and demand full snap backs, although in our hearts we so want to.

 

[Hopeful]

Nonsense. Fuel and labor are the two biggest costs to the company. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper, so that leaves labor as the primary determining factor of the company's expense levels. How flexible you are in these negotiations will absolutely determine whether or not AA files bk (and hence if your contract gets gutted).

But of course, executive pay is never calculated in the company's "LABOR" expense pie chart.

Let me ask u this, FFCA: Why are the executives not flexible in their contract with the company?

 

[Bob Owens]

Nonsense. Fuel and labor are the two biggest costs to the company. Fuel isn't getting any cheaper, so that leaves labor as the primary determining factor of the company's expense levels. How flexible you are in these negotiations will absolutely determine whether or not AA files bk (and hence if your contract gets gutted).

You pay more to drive to the airport, expect to pay more to get on the plane too. Its unreasonable to expect to transported all over the country at 500mph for cheaper than it is to drive yourself. Flying offers time savings, thats all they should be offering.

 

[Mrs. McFly]

But of course, executive pay is never calculated in the company's "LABOR" expense pie chart.

Let me ask u this, FFCA: Why are the executives not flexible in their contract with the company?

Execuitves are flexible in their contracts as their compensation is partially linked to high risk stock options. Personally, I would much rather have the cash to do with as I please, than have to rely on the market to dictate my total gross.

 

[The Goose]

But of course, executive pay is never calculated in the company's "LABOR" expense pie chart.

I'm going to disagree on this point - the column in the ledger marked "WAGES" is where all compensation expenditures are totalled and listed, be it executive or peon. When it comes raise time, they won't tell you that - the company negotiators would have you believe the cost of keeping us low-lifes around is much greater than it really is for obvious reasons.

Let me ask u this, FFCA: Why are the executives not flexible in their contract with the company?

Because they don't have to be; simple as that. They're so "special".

 

[Bob Owens]

Execuitves are flexible in their contracts as their compensation is partially linked to high risk stock options. Personally, I would much rather have the cash to do with as I please, than have to rely on the market to dictate my total gross.

Yea right, its so hard to make ends meet when your pay can vary from as little as $500,000 a year to $10million. The uncertainty must be crippling. It must be rough to be rich when you dont know how rich you will be.

 

[The Goose]

DIdn't the AA/TWU start meeting yesterday?

Supposedly - Burchette said something about putting his hands in Romano's pockets.

 

[bigdawg52]

Yea right, its so hard to make ends meet when your pay can vary from as little as $500,000 a year to $10million. The uncertainty must be crippling. It must be rough to be rich when you dont know how rich you will be.

When are you guys going to realize, that the company execs, are going to get theirs whether you or I are here or gone. FOr once concern yourselves with the problem at hand. Our contract.

Everyone here could have been in mgmt. if they have wanted it, me included. But it seems that everyone has to put the blame on mgmt. Granted I for one, did not like the bonus's they took this time around. But what does it accomplish, nothing, just bickering between workgroups.

I still say we should have at least had a chance to vote on the contract that was proposed, that is our right as union members, some may not agree, and I can live with ther opinions.

But going foreward, this scenario that we are in is not looking pretty. As a matter of fact down right ugly.

 

[Mrs. McFly]

Yea right, its so hard to make ends meet when your pay can vary from as little as $500,000 a year to $10million. The uncertainty must be crippling. It must be rough to be rich when you dont know how rich you will be.

I am not saying that executive pay is fabulous - in fact, I do believe it is out of whack across the board, not just at AA. But, it is what it is and isn't going anywhere, so I think the argument about it grows tiresome.

 

[The Goose]

When are you guys going to realize, that the company execs, are going to get theirs whether you or I are here or gone. FOr once concern yourselves with the problem at hand. Our contract.

Everyone here could have been in mgmt. if they have wanted it, me included. But it seems that everyone has to put the blame on mgmt. Granted I for one, did not like the bonus's they took this time around. But what does it accomplish, nothing, just bickering between workgroups.

I still say we should have at least had a chance to vote on the contract that was proposed, that is our right as union members, some may not agree, and I can live with ther opinions.

But going foreward, this scenario that we are in is not looking pretty. As a matter of fact down right ugly.

Dawg, you've evidently not been keeping up with current events.

After the 2003 cluster (little Jimmy accepting the contract on our "behalf"), he went to court to affirm that he, as the HMFIC of the TWU could do that, but the court ruled he could only do that after a first vote was taken and the result was negative. He could then accept the contract for us and you do not want any contract out there for that 'little' turd to accept unless it's livable to begin with.

Talk a bit with Bob Owens or Chuck Shalk about this 'little' quirk. Check also on little's previous positions held with AA. He's not to be trusted - assume he's been bought.

 

[FWAAA]

When I refer to labor cost, I've referring to my workgroup, maintenance. BTW...what happened to your praise of 4 days ago:

I agree with you, but it's not just maintenance. Bankruptcy (or avoiding bankruptcy) no longer hinges on labor costs. Not of any one workgroup and not overall labor costs. As I've posted before, AMR will eventually file unless fuel prices drop substantially, regardless of wage raises or concessions. Wage concessions made a difference in 2003 when the annual shortfall was a measly $1.8 billion. This year's (and next year's) shortfall is likely gonna be double that. My prediction is that management doesn't even approach workgroups for givebacks before filing. Ch 11 will happen one Sunday night and concession discussions will begin after that.

You guys gave back substantially in 2003 and prevented (or delayed) a Ch 11 filing. Nothing any employee can do now to influence that outcome. Only way to avoid it now would be really cheap fuel or sale of Eagle and/or AAdvantage for billions more than they are probably really worth.

 

[FWAAA]

It was hard to get them to pay $10 for a t-shirt that cost us $8--9 to make and ship during the AMFA drives. We initially asked $20 and were told they could buy a shirt cheaper at WalMart. The last 7 year drive was done on a shoestring t-shirt budget in which no AMFA National money was used until we were assured of a filing in 2004. If we had the donations you speak of, the twu would of been removed years ago and this site would have a few less perpetually disgruntled posters.

My standing offer is now $110 - covering the cost of my t-shirt.

I've been involved in the organization and creation of hundreds of companies, including a few that are now public, plus many non-profits, cooperatives, etc. of all stripes. But never been involved in the creation of a labor union - I'm definitely not up to that task.

Hope you guys can get it done someday. I don't buy t-shirts at Wal-Mart and could use a nice one.