TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

Bob you must have NEVER been to Miami. There is NO Space in the Hanger that is why the 757 B Check had to be done on nights. So what are you talking about when you say " available Facilities". You must be joking.
 
You need to stop talking about stuff in Miami, because you are being told stuff that is NOT true. Come to Miami and talk to all the old guys that know you from NY. They will tell you what is really going on in Miami. You will be back on this Board saying Damn I guess I was wrong. Don't come hear and walk with the people that are part of the click that I am talking about. See Me. I will show you the REAL Miami. Its about time we Meet anyway. 

 

[Overspeed]

The Truth,
Local 591 or a single MX local on paper should be better for everyone. It should bring unity and solidarity because the Board is working together to resolve the station issues from a system perspective. Instead, we have one local still acting like they represent only one station's members. We are all the members yet parts of the local are leveraged against the other. Bob is denial that the lack of unity is being used against them. If this board can't handle a seemingly simple issue like a BC moving due to a work place issue then we may be looking at some serious problems in negotiations.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
Wake up. The MIA hangar is packed now. They are getting the 757 BC now. They are gobbling up the work that DFW is not doing because of GP's vendetta with Sangricco. We all know that in DFW. In GP's letter about the FAA he stated that the 777 BC was moved to MIA because DFW raised legitimate safety concerns. Is GP lying or you about why the 777 went to MIA?
 

 

 
 
MIA the perfect location? Have you been in MIA during the summer? The ramp gets closed daily around 12 to 2. Just because people put transfers in to somewhere lese doesn't mean anything. JFK, ORD, and LAX are all hiring and guess what? People put in for the jobs and people will get hired.
 

 
Sure MIA has their Summer Thunderstorms, but so does DFW, with twisters thrown in for good measure. 
 
 
Yes people will eventually get hired, and people will continue to leave. Unlike some other locations AA has to compete with not olny other carriers but other industries as well. 
 

DFW has over 70 overnighters, still has close to 500 flights even after the rebanking, and has more hangar space to hide aircraft from hail than anywhere else in the system. DFW on paper is the best place to do all the BCs due to our hangar space, access to TUL and TAESL, and lower cost of living than JFK, SFO, LAX, LGA, and ORD. If AA was smart they would fix the problems in DFW whatever they are and move as many BCs to DFW and lose the expensive hangar space in the cities I just mentioned
 

 
 
Why are you worried about the B checks leaving? Nobody has been riffed and management has not stated any plans to reduce headcount. Obviously you have enough work with 70 overnighters and 500 flights a day.  The hangars in the NE they are stuck with, LGA till 2030, JFK till 2019 and I believe its around the same for BOS. Yes JFK and BOS are expensive, they could have shed them in BK but chose not to, but if it was just cost alone then AA wouldn't be doing maintenance in Europe where they pay their mechanics $50/hr.
 
I agree that DFW is a central location, but as far as one of the pluss' being access to Tulsa its accessed the same way as from anywhere else, by flying or trucking. How much is a round trip ferry flight to Tulsa with landing fees, fuel, crew costs etc? $20k? That would cover the labor for several B checks even if we were to get GEO pay. So while its close there is very little advantage as far as access. What would make sense is to move OH to DFW, that would make more sense than moving all the B-checks because as I mentioned many cabins are configured for specific markets and since those configured planes are limited in numbers losing a day to do a B-check doesn't make sense. but then again you and I are mechanics and those decisions are not made by us, they are made by management. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob you must have NEVER been to Miami. There is NO Space in the Hanger that is why the 757 B Check had to be done on nights. So what are you talking about when you say " available Facilities". You must be joking.
 
You need to stop talking about stuff in Miami, because you are being told stuff that is NOT true. Come to Miami and talk to all the old guys that know you from NY. They will tell you what is really going on in Miami. You will be back on this Board saying Damn I guess I was wrong. Don't come hear and walk with the people that are part of the click that I am talking about. See Me. I will show you the REAL Miami. Its about time we Meet anyway. 

In 35 years in the industry all the B-cks I worked were done on nights. Doing B-cks on nights is usually the norm, only recently have they started doing them on days in NY. 
 
i come down every three months for the quarterly meetings. 

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

Overspeed. 
You are right there is NO unity with the Local 591 Board. I just saw somewhere  on this forum. The Jimmy Knapp and George Rohas Ticket. It is So funny that when Little 1st said he wanted to put all the Locals together. All these Guys that are on 591 Board said it was a not a good Deal.They knew that Little had his own team pick to run. Well they beat that team and now its the best thing and the changed there mind. I wonder how they would feel if they had lost and little team had won. 
 
If Local 591 cares so much about its members.. Let the people in each station vote for what they think is best for them. I guess the same thing that happened to Jim Little it now happening to them. Money and Power 

 

[Shafted]

 
 
Sure MIA has their Summer Thunderstorms, but so does DFW, with twisters thrown in for good measure. 
 
 
Yes people will eventually get hired, and people will continue to leave. Unlike some other locations AA has to compete with not olny other carriers but other industries as well. 
 
 
 
Why are you worried about the B checks leaving? Nobody has been riffed and management has not stated any plans to reduce headcount. Obviously you have enough work with 70 overnighters and 500 flights a day.  The hangars in the NE they are stuck with, LGA till 2030, JFK till 2019 and I believe its around the same for BOS. Yes JFK and BOS are expensive, they could have shed them in BK but chose not to, but if it was just cost alone then AA wouldn't be doing maintenance in Europe where they pay their mechanics $50/hr.
 
I agree that DFW is a central location, but as far as one of the pluss' being access to Tulsa its accessed the same way as from anywhere else, by flying or trucking. How much is a round trip ferry flight to Tulsa with landing fees, fuel, crew costs etc? $20k? That would cover the labor for several B checks even if we were to get GEO pay. So while its close there is very little advantage as far as access. What would make sense is to move OH to DFW, that would make more sense than moving all the B-checks because as I mentioned many cabins are configured for specific markets and since those configured planes are limited in numbers losing a day to do a B-check doesn't make sense. but then again you and I are mechanics and those decisions are not made by us, they are made by management. 

How many of us have ever seen a twister at DFW?

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

How many of us has ever seen a twister at DFW?

How many does it take to cost millions of dollars worth of damage and kill people?
 
1.
 
Maybe you should reference the map.
 

 
A resident of "Tornado Alley".

 

[Bob Owens]

Overspeed. 
You are right there is NO unity with the Local 591 Board. I just saw somewhere  on this forum. The Jimmy Knapp and George Rohas Ticket. It is So funny that when Little 1st said he wanted to put all the Locals together. All these Guys that are on 591 Board said it was a not a good Deal.They knew that Little had his own team pick to run. Well they beat that team and now its the best thing and the changed there mind. I wonder how they would feel if they had lost and little team had won. 
 
If Local 591 cares so much about its members.. Let the people in each station vote for what they think is best for them. I guess the same thing that happened to Jim Little it now happening to them. Money and Power 

I'd advocated for consolidation, but I wanted it to be a plan put before and approved by the membership. Also wanted for the Title II question to be settled as part of the plan. Little's objectives were punitive in intent and deliberately left the structure flawed by having Title II split between Fleet locals and Maint Locals. They also tried to make it fail by terminating the old locals on the day of the election leaving us basically with nothing in place, not even an EIN needed to open bank accounts, set up payroll etc etc. Even with normal elections there is a period between the election and when the people take office. we were charged with the process of shutting down five locals at once while starting up a much larger Local and to top it off Little decided to conduct forensic audits on the old Locals. Money and power? My pay comes out to 9 hrs OT per week, not bad but I could make that and have a lot more free time without this job. So while its good, its not money that puts us out of touch. Power, the only power we have is the support of the membership and just in case you missed it we put in recall which allows you to recall us any time you want. Until that happens I will continue to do what I can to make this work. Sure there are struggles but one thing we are all on the same page is that we need to get a lot of things back and we need to restore our compensation. Delta plus seven is an insult, my biggest concern is that we end up making the same mistake as the flight attendants, grab for the money and extend the concessions another five years and find ourselves locked into bottom of the industry till 2020 with the company saying "you voted for it". 

 

[Overspeed]

Bob,
Tornadoes rarely hit DFW. Of course who knows with climate change. DFW's biggest issue has always been hail and thunderstorms. DFW has the best line facilities in the system for doing most of the work and no there is not enough work here after the rebank.

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

Bob you are good at saying a lot but you didn't  address anything. You stated you come down here every 3 months. No one comes to those meeting, so the only people you see are the members of that Click I told you about. 
 
I invited you to come and talk to the people that have not sold there souls for the special deals that you only get if you drink the KOOL AID. 
 
Money and Power. How much money are you in control of Now compared to when you was part of NY Local. 
Power. How much stuff have you and the Board changed with out letting the members volt. Please provide the FACTS. 
 
Give us a list of anything positive that Local 591 have done that makes the members life better. 
 
Maybe you don't even see what you have become. But Local 591 is No Different than the Jim Little Team. You do what ever you want then you blame it on something else like by laws or the old Jim Little team. 
 
I challenge you to post the no# of the people who show up at a meeting compared to the amount of people at each station. I know you won't because it will show that  The Local 591 Board has lost touch with its members.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob you are good at saying a lot but you didn't  address anything. You stated you come down here every 3 months. No one comes to those meeting, so the only people you see are the members of that Click I told you about. 
 
I invited you to come and talk to the people that have not sold there souls for the special deals that you only get if you drink the KOOL AID. 
 
Money and Power. How much money are you in control of Now compared to when you was part of NY Local. 
Power. How much stuff have you and the Board changed with out letting the members volt. Please provide the FACTS. 
 
Give us a list of anything positive that Local 591 have done that makes the members life better. 
 
Maybe you don't even see what you have become. But Local 591 is No Different than the Jim Little Team. You do what ever you want then you blame it on something else like by laws or the old Jim Little team. 
 
I challenge you to post the no# of the people who show up at a meeting compared to the amount of people at each station. I know you won't because it will show that  The Local 591 Board has lost touch with its members.

I would say roughly around 100 people come to the MIA meeting, the meetings are done in the terminal so none of the old excuses about parking, bad neighborhood etc apply. You choose not to go but really we cant make it any easier. thats a fact.
 
We have over $2 million so yes the Local has resources that were not available before so we have the resources to pursue legal actions etc that were kind of out of reach before. Its not "our" money, its the memberships money. Thats a fact.
 
The Board has made many changes because we had to make this thing work, the members also have the right to make changes. Thats an opinion and a fact.
 
Which changes in particular do you object to? Recall, online voting, posting the Financial report and minutes online or is it the pay? 
 
Well one thing we have done is made it so you can participate without having to go to a meeting. Thats a fact.
 
You don't have to show up at meetings to participate, you vote on motions online. Thats a fact.
 
That may drive down meeting attendance . Thats an opinion.
 
So I think we have made changes that bring more accountability , transparency and make it easier to participate. Thats an opinion.
 
The contract is the contract and we are limited to what we can do there, MIA didn't have as strong of a NO vote as NY. Thats a fact.
 
We post the Financial Reports online. Thats a fact.
 
We post the minutes online. Thats a fact. 
 
You have tools available thanks to the changes we made in the Bylaws so if you think we are no different than the Jim Little team and its just a small clique in MIA that doesn't feel that way then remove us, it may not be easy but its never been easier. Thats a fact. 
 
I'm not going to waste my time compiling the meeting numbers, I wont dispute that they are low. MIA in fact is one of the better attended meetings, especially since doing the meetings right on the airport. I wish other airports had similar setups. To say we lost touch would be inaccurate, the voter turnout for the initial elections were low, so the damage was already done, by eliminating the barriers to participation. We have had around 190,000 hits on the website, not a lot but thanks to the online voting we have had 90% participation in many stations on motion votes. 

 

[Overspeed]

Bob,
The terminal? Why are you having union meetings on company property? Doesn't that mean management can hear whatever you are saying?
 
The money spent on legal actions has produced what for the membership? That the Int'l was right they can determine the number of locals, that you can't keep an Int'l rep from bring present at negotiations? Soon we will probably find out that the local can't stop the Association as well. And what about the big FAA violations? I would have though by now if there was severe or even significant issues we would have seen some parked aircraft.
 
So that is a short list of bad financial decisions made by the 591 board, what about the financial decisions that did work? Well passed bylaw changes without membership approval to raise your salaries. Oh and authorize UBC for the you and the rest of the Fantastic Four to be paid out of our membership dues your full wages to hide in the union office without membership approval.
 
The membership is very apathetic and its getting worse not better because the changes made weren't what the members wanted, it was what you thought we wanted. It makes you feel good and the rest of us think even less hopefully with all the bickering, fighting, and jockeying for power.
 
All that money wasted on BS lawsuits should have gone in to hiring our own economists, not you Wall Street Bob, to put together a real good JCBA proposal. Review the language and tell us how to make it better.
 
It has already been pointed out that you really don't understand the management games that are being played in each of the stations. Stations are being played against each other. If the DFW allegations were correct why did MIA pick up the work without a hiccup and turn the aircraft faster? Didn't GP coordinate with Rojas and Knapp? It is quite obvious there are deep differences with how the local should be run on the board. The 591 board is deeply divided. GP was out here telling us Mishak should be removed for his comments for God's sake. Shouldn't GP and the rest of the board dealt with a lack of unity internally before taking potshots on the floor at other members? Or is it this board's policy to blame everyone else for their lack of leadership skills.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I suppose you coming on a public forum and airing all the union issues, problems, and division is helpful?

And you complain about having a union meeting in a terminal?

Look in the mirror and you will see a hypocrite.

 

[Overspeed]

GQ,
Definitely not a hypocrite. I posted here many times in the past that no one from the union should be posting on a public forum about internal issues. How many officers have posted about the negotiations weren't going the way they wanted so what did they do, they posted here to broadcast all the disarray on the committee (Bob and Chuck).
 
I look in the mirror and I see someone who is frustrated with the lack of leadership from within the TWU. Bob is the leadership. I'm not an officer or a rep so I wouldn't know most of what I do if it weren't posted here on this forum. So yes, I complain about having union meetings at the terminal or on company premises for that matter. The officers should only be engaging members on the field to find out what it is they need to show up at a meeting.
 
If the local can't get it's members to even come in a little early or stay a little late then Bob's hope that we all lock arms and shut the place down if we don't get the uber-deal he says we can get then guess what, we aren't getting it. And the company knows we are in disarray and individuals. When one set of reps (DFW and ORD) is fighting the company and the other is working closely with them (MIA) they don't have to read this blog, Wroble knows he has us right where he wants us.
 
I believe that Knapp and Rojas are our best bet to getting some kind of unity in 591. I've heard from MIA that Knapp knows how to get his officers on the same page and that's what we need. GP is out for himself and GS still wants AMFA. Knapp and Rojas can make the union we have work for the members.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Knapp and Rojas can make the union we have work for the members.

I don't believe that.
 
How many chances should they be given? 
 
Better yet, how many chances have they been given already?
 
In my opinion the only way to "fix" the TWU is to send them packing.
 
TWU takes money for a service it does not provide. Funding the TWU has become a bad investment.
 
 
 
I will be the first to say personally..... I don't like Bob. He is far too socialist for my taste. That being said I do believe he is honest and I do believe he performs well as a UNION officer.
 
I have said this before and I stand behind it now, I would gladly vote for Bob as a UNION official to represent me.
 
I can't speak for everyone on this forum, only myself but, this is starting to look like a "witch hunt" to me.  You seem to just be probing for somewhere to drive a wedge. To put it another way you are throwing a wide net of accusations to see if any stick and if any do that will be your point of attack. That really is a vile way to publicly challenge someones integrity. 
 
One has to question your motivations.