TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[Overspeed]

Vortilon,
True Bob has said he doesn't like the current local structure. But he does not want more locals, he wants one M&R local across the system under one union. Only IBT UPS local 2727 is like that.

 

[700UW]

That was chapter 11 part 2 for the 401k match, loss of utility, overhaul and pushbacks, not in the first chapter 11.

 

[Vortilon]

Vortilon,
True Bob has said he doesn't like the current local structure. But he does not want more locals, he wants one M&R local across the system under one union. Only IBT UPS local 2727 is like that.

 
Who cares if there is more locals around the system?  That system didn't work very well for line AMTs anyway.  I would like to see one big aircraft maintenance local - centraly located in the system.   Having all AMTs in the same local is actually a pretty good idea.  God knows, it couldn't be any worse than the current Jim Little engineered structure that we currently enjoying...  The future isn't very promising either.

 

[Buck]

 
Who cares if there is more locals around the system?  That system didn't work very well for line AMTs anyway.  I would like to see one big aircraft maintenance local - centraly located in the system.   Having all AMTs in the same local is actually a pretty good idea.  God knows, it couldn't be any worse than the current Jim Little engineered structure that we currently enjoying...  The future isn't very promising either.

I believe the movement from multiple locals to two was brought about by the removal of the Baker Letter and therefore the Locals going broke? At least this was the impression TWU Local 514 gave.

 

[Rogallo]

So, who is to blame for the POS agreement we currently work under?
 
Oh, and you forgot NYer 

 

[Buck]

So, who is to blame for the POS agreement we currently work under?
 
Oh, and you forgot NYer 

The TWU membership of course

 

[Overspeed]

Buck,
The removal of the Baker letter was a major driver of forming a single local for line. They separate local's would have gone broke except that shortly after GP's election he negotiated a secret side letter with Ken Durst to reinstate a portion of the Baker letter for select 591 officers and individual 591 officers scammed to form special deals. These deals and the letter allowed the local to pay for their officers to get paid by AA for their regular wages and then get another salary from the local on top. Paul recently withdrew that deal as we all know and GP's team panicked. They then voted themselves to now get paid full wages and salary out of our dues. That could hurt in the long run but we will have to see the financial reports to see how this pans out. The formation of the Association could reassign members to IAM lodges and they may not have the dues to support their current deal. Other officers and reps in DFW continue to show up off and on and get paid by AA.

 

[Vortilon]

 
The turnover in the International and ATD has been in the dozens, yet the same Local leaders are around and blaming everyone under the sun. They tell you guys what needs to be done to get to the promised land yet they can't deliver it because they have a huge list of whom to blame...take Bob's list for instance, it includes the following..."Jim Little, Sonny Hall, Don Videtich, Bobby Gless, Gary Drummond, John Donnelly, Sharon Levine, Mark Richards, Dave Rosen, Bob Crandall, Don Carty, Gerard Arpey, Tom Horton, Doug Parker, Judge Sean Lean, Mediator Terry Brown, Mediator John Kane, the National Mediation Board, Fleet Service Clerks, Fleet Local Presidents, Stores, a Union Busting guy from AIRCON (from the NBM), Bob Zimmerman, Todd Woodward, Steve Gilboy, Steve Luis, Sam Cirri, the IAM (is anti-union), ect., ect.

 
Kinda padded your list there NYer.  Nice technique though.  The company people are just doing their jobs.  That is to get the employees to do more for less - so far, not working too good.  The fleet service clerks are just doing what they have always done, and that is take care of themseves.  The local presidents don't have that much power by themselves.  The attorneys are paid for by the company or the TWU International - nuff said.   NMB hasn't really played a role in TWU negotiations - never got that far.  So yeah, Bob is right, and so am I - in who is to blame!  Go try and sell your snake oil somewhere else.

 

[NYer]

So, who is to blame for the POS agreement we currently work under?
 
Oh, and you forgot NYer 

 
If you like it, don't like or are indifferent on the CBA negotiated as part of the bankruptcy, then the focus should be on those that actually negotiated it. The Local Presidents.
 
If they want to lay blame on the International, then why keep sending the same guys that can't outsmart the very same people they keep telling us are dumb as rocks.

 

[NYer]

 
Kinda padded your list there NYer.  Nice technique though.  The company people are just doing their jobs.  That is to get the employees to do more for less - so far, not working too good.  The fleet service clerks are just doing what they have always done, and that is take care of themseves.  The local presidents don't have that much power by themselves.  The attorneys are paid for by the company or the TWU International - nuff said.   NMB hasn't really played a role in TWU negotiations - never got that far.  So yeah, Bob is right, and so am I - in who is to blame!  Go try and sell your snake oil somewhere else.

 
Everyone is to blame. Of course. 
 
The good thing is that if we get rid of the TWU all those to blame will miraculously turn into someone else and we can reap the rewards no one else can get. The good times are coming our way...wooo hooo....
 
...But wait.....while we sit here and complain, who is actually getting those cards signed so we can finally get another union in here to represent us? Oh well, that will just happen, so let's get comfortable and keep trying to find who to blame for our misery in these chat rooms.
 
Carry on lads.

 

[Vortilon]

 
Everyone is to blame. Of course. 
 
The good thing is that if we get rid of the TWU all those to blame will miraculously turn into someone else and we can reap the rewards no one else can get. The good times are coming our way...wooo hooo....
 
...But wait.....while we sit here and complain, who is actually getting those cards signed so we can finally get another union in here to represent us? Oh well, that will just happen, so let's get comfortable and keep trying to find who to blame for our misery in these chat rooms.
 
Carry on lads.

 
I never said everyone, just the D-Bags in the TWU International.  To a lesser extent, the less informed YES voters - that trusted the TWU.  We all know who is to blame - there is no argument. 

 

[Overspeed]

V,
Most of the Little Team is gone at Int'l. That's what many of our current local 591 officers blamed for our current predicament. So did we get rid of the "d bags" and replace them with new "d bags"? What most of us want to know is that since the new group of local and Int'l officials are in and the past has been thoroughly debated as to how wrong the old group was, when do we hear some optimism about how the new group is going to make it better for us? We need the new leadership to lead. Start engaging us on the floor, stop the negative rhetoric about how screwed up the past was, lay out their frame work going forward. Or is this the best 591 has, stay on the message of how bad everyone else was so we are distracted from the fact that they really have no plan. Is their brand of leadership just bad mouth everyone else and not doing anything meaningful to make it better for us now?

 

[Vortilon]

V,
Most of the Little Team is gone at Int'l. That's what many of our current local 591 officers blamed for our current predicament. So did we get rid of the "d bags" and replace them with new "d bags"? What most of us want to know is that since the new group of local and Int'l officials are in and the past has been thoroughly debated as to how wrong the old group was, when do we hear some optimism about how the new group is going to make it better for us? We need the new leadership to lead. Start engaging us on the floor, stop the negative rhetoric about how screwed up the past was, lay out their frame work going forward. Or is this the best 591 has, stay on the message of how bad everyone else was so we are distracted from the fact that they really have no plan. Is their brand of leadership just bad mouth everyone else and not doing anything meaningful to make it better for us now?

 
How can we forget about the past when the same people you want us to forget about, hung a boat anchor around the future AMT negotiators necks?  Truth is, Local 591 can't change much at all, and most of us AMTs realize that.  I have yet to meet an AMT at AA that supports the "association".  No AMT trusts the TWU International.  Point is, as long as we are stuck in the suck - we are going to make sure everybody feels it one way or another.   What do you expect Gary Peterson to do?  Should he be pumping sunshine up our behinds, telling us how things will get better, but maybe we should lower our expectations?  Maybe the TWU will release the rest of the equity money to us some day.  Maybe the company will give us the retiree medical match some day.  Sorry the company decided to give all the other AA employees a 4% raise outside of negotiations - except TWU represented.  Then justify it using a weak excuse.  That was almost as lame as the companys excuse to take away PV Days - "because no other airline offers pv days to their employees".  Well, we all know that was complete BS, they call them DAT days at other airlines. 
 
Point is, AMTs at AA have nothing to be encouraged about.  After watching the town hall meetings on Jetnet, I am more convinced than ever - that the AMTs at AA are screwed.  That leaves AAs AMTs having to rely on (God forbid) the association.  Considering that, how could Gary keep a staight face and try to sell that.  I can picture Gary speaking to the membership now (looking sorta like Pinocchio in the Geico ad) "with the full backing of the association, we will fight to get you everything you lost, Delta plus 7 or more, and profit sharing to boot." 
 
Do you really think that when most of us get those stupid updates telling us how our negotiators attended a six day seminar on how to negotiate are encouraging?  It's a joke, and you know it, and so does Gary & Bob.  They also are aware that the International owns the contract, and ultimately has the final say so.  Remind me how that has gone for AAs AMTs in the past.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Good post Vortilon!

 

[swamt]

 
How can we forget about the past when the same people you want us to forget about, hung a boat anchor around the future AMT negotiators necks?  Truth is, Local 591 can't change much at all, and most of us AMTs realize that.  I have yet to meet an AMT at AA that supports the "association".  No AMT trusts the TWU International.  Point is, as long as we are stuck in the suck - we are going to make sure everybody feels it one way or another.   What do you expect Gary Peterson to do?  Should he be pumping sunshine up our behinds, telling us how things will get better, but maybe we should lower our expectations?  Maybe the TWU will release the rest of the equity money to us some day.  Maybe the company will give us the retiree medical match some day.  Sorry the company decided to give all the other AA employees a 4% raise outside of negotiations - except TWU represented.  Then justify it using a weak excuse.  That was almost as lame as the companys excuse to take away PV Days - "because no other airline offers pv days to their employees".  Well, we all know that was complete BS, they call them DAT days at other airlines. 
 
Point is, AMTs at AA have nothing to be encouraged about.  After watching the town hall meetings on Jetnet, I am more convinced than ever - that the AMTs at AA are screwed.  That leaves AAs AMTs having to rely on (God forbid) the association.  Considering that, how could Gary keep a staight face and try to sell that.  I can picture Gary speaking to the membership now (looking sorta like Pinocchio in the Geico ad) "with the full backing of the association, we will fight to get you everything you lost, Delta plus 7 or more, and profit sharing to boot." 
 
Do you really think that when most of us get those stupid updates telling us how our negotiators attended a six day seminar on how to negotiate are encouraging?  It's a joke, and you know it, and so does Gary & Bob.  They also are aware that the International owns the contract, and ultimately has the final say so.  Remind me how that has gone for AAs AMTs in the past.

Well said sir, great post.  I believe the TWU and IAM knows they don't have the support for this alliance association and is why they are trying to push the NMB into certifying it without a vote. Today marks 32 weeks and still nothing from the NMB.  Something is up and I don't think you guys will be happy with the final outcome, taking wayyyyy too long.  You guys can only hope that someone else does get on the ballot IF there is a vote on this association...