TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[700UW]

First bankruptcy we gave up $367 million per year in two rounds of concessions.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,
The prefunding was never "lost". Those under 50 had the way it was funded changed from prefunding to funded by SK time and existing funds would still keep our retiree medical intact. Those 50 and over continued under the plan as it existed at the time. Now we do not have retiree medical at all.
 

Wrong, you are mixing up Prefunding and Retiree medical, we didn't fund to get prefunding, we prefunded for retiree medical. Retiree medical wasn't lost in the 2010 deal but for those under 50 prefunding was. The 2010 deal took those under 50 out of the prefunding plan and in exchange for the funds in the trust Funds offered sick time credits to buy retiree medical. 
 
 

While the past is relevant to making a decision on asking for release, the recent past and present should weigh in to that decision as well. We were told on the floor that the NMB would put negotiations on ice if we demanded release. I guess that would not have mattered since we didn't get any further towards a contract in the end. Of course maybe he would have been better off because then you could have blamed the NMB instead of Don.
 

Who told you that? Show me where after years of negotiations, where the company didn't move one penny, and thge members rejected the company final offer come TA, that the NMB put the Union on ice.
 
As far as the immediate future negotiations we are still saddled with the curse of what Little , Videtich and Gless did between the contract and the Association agreement. I will have less input in these negotiations than the last. Hopefully we will get our vote and hopefully the members will reject the Association.

 

[Bob Owens]

First bankruptcy we gave up $367 million per year in two rounds of concessions.

How much of a paycut did maint take in round one? What other than pay did they give up? 

 

[700UW]

Its been a while Im gonna have to think hard.
 
Judge imposed an emergency paycut of 19%.  Cant remember the details.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
 --Seems like the guy that was in charge of COPE received a nice promotion via the Convention Delegates. I guess that wasn't really a priority.
 

Looks like Sidney is back.
 
 
 

--They lost. It went to the highest court possible. Move on. You were wrong.....again.
 

 
I realize that you have more experience in court than I do  but we are talking civil court here, not criminal and either way the Supreme Court is the highest possible, besides I favor the legislative route (now go run and ask Mark what that means). 
 
 

The airline had about $4.1B in cash which was based on secured loans as opposed to profits in the operation. (a small detail you love to leave out). The debt incurred due to all the pertinent reasons, including mismanagement, was about $29B. That is a much, much larger number than the money they had on hand. 
 

 
 
Was there a cash flow problem? You leave out that they had around $24 billion in revenue and most of the debt was from the record breaking purchase of aircraft just six months earlier and most of that debt is still there to be paid off over many, many years.(2014 they had over $42billion in revenues.) Prior to the purchase of new Aircraft AA had reduced their debt load to below half what it was in 2003. In fact in their Flagship news they boasted that not only had they eliminated most of their debt but that they had exited "recovery mode".  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[Overspeed]

Bob,
And regardless of whether your points are right or wrong, the BK law was on the company's side. If you knew that it was possible to file even though you didn't agree with the reasoning why, then why not get us the best deal possible. Voting no helped us how? You claim that the TWU was against us, the NMB, the courts, etc...
 
Now that we know what doesn't work it sounds like next election cycle it's time to try something different. The MIA leadership seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. I hear nothing but good coming out of there. I hope Knapp and Rojas break away from you and the GP team.

 

[700UW]

Bob:
 
 

May 29, 2008

Previously published on May 2008

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled that an airline was not required by the Railway Labor Act (RLA), which applies to airlines as well as railroads, to maintain the status quo while bargaining for a first contract. In this case, the airline, a defense contractor and the union engaged in protracted negotiations for a first collective bargaining agreement after the union was certified as the bargaining representative for the pilots. During this time, the airline, for economic reasons, made substantial changes in the terms and conditions of the pilots’ employment. There was no existing contract.

In its decision, which rejected the view of the Eleventh Circuit on this issue, the Ninth Circuit pointed out that while several sections of the RLA preclude the parties from unilaterally changing the status quo during collective bargaining, all relate to the settlement of major disputes after the formation of the contract. Since there was no contract in place in this case, the Court ruled that the RLA status quo provisions did not apply.

http://www.martindale.com/labor-employment-law/article_Holland-Knight-LLP_423078.htm
 
 

 

[NYer]

 
I realize that you have more experience in court than I do  but we are talking civil court here, not criminal and either way the Supreme Court is the highest possible, besides I favor the legislative route (now go run and ask Mark what that means). --I already know what that means. It means you can't win in court so you run towards your next choice of trying to fulfill your rhetoric. You might like the legislative route, but that was the route that put us in a position of weakness in the first place. =/
 
 
Was there a cash flow problem? You leave out that they had around $24 billion in revenue and most of the debt was from the record breaking purchase of aircraft just six months earlier and most of that debt is still there to be paid off over many, many years.(2014 they had over $42billion in revenues.) Prior to the purchase of new Aircraft AA had reduced their debt load to below half what it was in 2003. In fact in their Flagship news they boasted that not only had they eliminated most of their debt but that they had exited "recovery mode".  --So you're trying to make the case of the airline being in tip-top shape, they have $24B in revenue and the $29B in debt was because of airplane orders they had yet to receive? You're flying on fumes, Bob. Look for a clear patch before you crash.
 
"The airline said Airbus and Boeing had provided a combined $13 billion in financing through lease transactions, which it said would fully cover the cost of the first 230 deliveries, set to begin in 2013." (they had debt in 2011 for airplanes they were to get in 2013? Really?)
 
It's too bad you feed your followers all this nonsense. It's probably worse they believe it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[The Truth Will Set U Free]

Little is GONE. Don is GONE. Bob when are you going to stop talking about them. Lets hear what you and the board are doing. I have not seen anything different. Just the blame game. This one Local is a JOKE. Dallas, Chicago and New York is sticking together and Miami is enjoying everything that the company is taking away from them. So please explain how the one local is better. I can't wait to hear this one.

 

[Buck]

Little is GONE. Don is GONE. Bob when are you going to stop talking about them. Lets hear what you and the board are doing. I have not seen anything different. Just the blame game. This one Local is a JOKE. Dallas, Chicago and New York is sticking together and Miami is enjoying everything that the company is taking away from them. So please explain how the one local is better. I can't wait to hear this one.

Shouldn't those that created the parameters of this contract continue to be the subject?
 
Does any part of this contract effect the JCBA Negotiations?
 
Many here are employing historical data from the NMB and other airlines and organizations, are we just supposed to discuss the JCBA Negotiations with no references?

 

[Overspeed]

Buck,
We know full well that Bob says he knows everything that is wrong with the current CBA, how AMR management abused the BK laws, and how he thinks the Association is bad for the membership. The point is that his plan is what? Blame Little, Don, Gless, and whoever else he can name until he turns blue. Since Bob won't be at the unless there is some bylaw section that allows the treasurer to be part of the committee, shouldn't we be anxiously awaiting what GP has as the local's objectives. Bob is just the treasurer, not 591s negotiator. GP is our guy.

 

[MetalMover]

Buck,
We know full well that Bob says he knows everything that is wrong with the current CBA, how AMR management abused the BK laws, and how he thinks the Association is bad for the membership. The point is that his plan is what? Blame Little, Don, Gless, and whoever else he can name until he turns blue. Since Bob won't be at the unless there is some bylaw section that allows the treasurer to be part of the committee, shouldn't we be anxiously awaiting what GP has as the local's objectives. Bob is just the treasurer, not 591s negotiator. GP is our guy.

What corporation HASN'T abused the BK laws when it came to breaking labor's backs?
So GP is our guy? The one challenging the association and the one who will probably be stonewalling the JCBA negotiations for years to come like UA/CO with his VOTE NO and RESTORE AND MORE SLOGANS?
Time will tell.

 

[MetalMover]

Little is GONE. Don is GONE. Bob when are you going to stop talking about them. Lets hear what you and the board are doing. I have not seen anything different. Just the blame game. This one Local is a JOKE. Dallas, Chicago and New York is sticking together and Miami is enjoying everything that the company is taking away from them. So please explain how the one local is better. I can't wait to hear this one.

There is nothing to see until JCBA negotiations are underway.

 

[Vortilon]

Little is GONE. Don is GONE. Bob when are you going to stop talking about them. Lets hear what you and the board are doing. I have not seen anything different. Just the blame game. This one Local is a JOKE. Dallas, Chicago and New York is sticking together and Miami is enjoying everything that the company is taking away from them. So please explain how the one local is better. I can't wait to hear this one.

 
Really, another TWU apologist running his (edited by moderator). Maybe we should all overlook the mess that the TWU International has put AAs AMTs in.  We should all forget who the decision makers were during negotiations?  I am sure you and your comrades over at TWU international headquarters would love that.  Nobody in line maintenace at AA was happy with what happened to the line mx locals.  As Bob has pointed out several times on this BB, the new structure is even worse for AAs AMTs.  The makeup of the AA AMTs negotiating committee would actually have more non AMTs negotiating on our behalf.  What could possibly go wrong?
 
Miami is your concern? What about DWH? The company loves their little troopers over there. 
 
Sure, Little, Gless, and Vitedich are gone; however, the rest of us are having to live with mess that those D-bags created.  As a result, we will never forget who they are, and what they did. The same goes for Ed Kosiatek (edited).

 

[Real tired]

How much of a paycut did maint take in round one? What other than pay did they give up? 

Uniform maintenance
8 hour day
Vacation
401K match
Company pension
Sick time
Push back
Overhaul
Double time
Retroactive Paycut
3000 Utility people.........................