TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[NYer]

 
 
Back when they were looking to change Retiree medical from pre-funding to where we pay all the cost weren't you claiming that we weren't losing retiree medical, that they were just changing the way that its paid?   Wouldn't that apply here? Instead of $2/hr times a max of 2080 hrs per year  going into a fund administered by the IAMNPF they would get a 5.5% match on whatever they put in their 401K on all hours worked. Actually the 5.5% match, converted to a contribution (like other work groups at AA were able to negotiate)  would require a higher capital draw from AA than the $2 contribution to the IAMNPF. 
 
The worst that can happen to them, and some at US don't consider the AA match any worse than the IAMNPF, is they get what we get, a frozen pension with a 401K match on all earnings going forward. To me the fix is to negotiate a 10% contribution to the 401k ,not all get forced into a sketchy pension run by a Union we are not members of (unless we transfer to an IAM city or they decide to do a member swap).
 
Like I said, the opportunity to continue in the IAMNPF is the IAMs decision, not mine. If the IAM intends to let thousands of TWU members into the plan through the Association, as stated already in their agreement with the TWU, then why wont the IAM let people who are in the plan remain in the plan even though they are now in the TWU? 
 
Can you understand that? 

 
So you want them to voluntarily walk away from a continued accrual to their IAMNP so that you can avoid being in an Association? Nice. Let someone else voluntarily freeze their pension and start a 401K all over again.
 
By that premise, I you must believe the freezing of our pension and replaced by a match to the 401K.
 
You keep repeating the IAM doesn't want their members who work in a TWU stations to remain in the IAMPF, which is false and you can't show that is what will happen. You try to loosely interpret things to give it a nice twist. which almost always turns out to be wrong.

 

[NYer]

 
I never made such an argument. I advocate for AMFA based on their foundation of democracy & accountability not their membership count.
 
I jumped in when you tried to float your "85% of peak membership" crap while at the same time denying the IAM was worse by the same measure.
 
You may try to argue the AMFA losses are worse. I on the other hand would argue the IAM is far worse.
 
The IAM has been decertified by the membership at how many carriers? UAL-NWA-Alaska-WN ...  How many carriers has AMFA been decertified by the membership at? UAL-Horizon (Horizon has tried once already to bring AMFA back and UAL is in the middle of an AMFA drive)   Is it merely a coincidence that both AMFA decertifications came by way of the teamsters? Is it merely a coincidence that both groups have tried/are trying to get AMFA back?  At AA/US you should be quite familiar with the teamsters lying organizing committee, why is it such a stretch to think that just maybe the UAL mechs were lied to as well?  I can tell you with certainty that the teamsters lies back in 2008 are at the foundation of the drive to bring AMFA back.
 
Further- what does it say about the IAM as an organization when they refused to acknowledge their own failings and respect the mechanics desire for separate representation?  All the airlines I listed didn't throw the IAM together - As many of you have ranted and raved, AMFA has been trying to get into AA for decades, well the same thing went on at UAL. I was in 3 unsuccessful drives at UAL before AMFA won, At any time the IAM could've made real change for the mechanics and kept them but they didn't.
 
That is an unresponsive union, out of touch with its membership, you may be fine with that sort lackluster representation, but I and others clearly are not

 
If decertification is a sign of a bad organization then by that measure you seem to be in the right spot since the TWU has not be decertified at AA. It's happened in to the IBT, IAM and AMFA.
 
As far as lackluster, all you have shown about the AMFA folks is that you can fire them, or as you put it "their foundation of democracy & accountability." However, missing from that equation is the fact that contractually they don't give you any real advantage over the other choices. I guess if your priority is to be able to fire someone, then you have your choice. Most others want a bit more substance than that.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
If decertification is a sign of a bad organization then by that measure you seem to be in the right spot since the TWU has not be decertified at AA. It's happened in to the IBT, IAM and AMFA.
 
As far as lackluster, all you have shown about the AMFA folks is that you can fire them, or as you put it "their foundation of democracy & accountability." However, missing from that equation is the fact that contractually they don't give you any real advantage over the other choices. I guess if your priority is to be able to fire someone, then you have your choice. Most others want a bit more substance than that.

 
Have no illusions there, the TWU most definitely has been decertified - just not from AA ..... yet.
 
As for the rest of your post, wrong again.  Yes, democracy & accountability are the foundation, but its just that, a foundation.
 
Here at UAL there are several contractual issues at the center of the drive to remove the teamsters, and these issues are born of language that AMFA had previously negotiated and the teamsters removed.
 
AMFA negotiated specific language on Airframe and Shop work protection under Scope, the ibt removed this specific language in exchange for a general point protection. While no one has lost their job, many have been forced into other work areas/ off shift  due to their particular work area being outsourced.
 
AMFA negotiated  specific language on the use of 7 day coverage at the SFO base which limited schedules for its implementation and most importantly made 10hr day schedules strictly voluntary - the teamsters removed that language, and now many have lost their weekends and many are being juniored onto 10hr shifts against their will.
 
Those are just a few examples ... you can add to it the general distaste for the ibts secret negotiations, and more recently their announcement of their intent to try and get UAL into their Teamcare medical plan which almost no one here seems to want and you have representation cards being signed.

 

[WeAAsles]

I haven't been to this forum in quite some time but I see it's a far cry from more informative times.  Well, I came here because I wanted to know if anyone had a timeline on when the NMB may rule or what the hangup may be. Just seems it's been unusually delayed. Peace

Nothing yet Tim. Keep your eyes here.

http://www.nmb.gov/

 

[CMH_GSE]

Here is a sneak preview, I think, of what the NMB will/should do with the application of the Ass.

https://storage.googleapis.com/dakota-dev-content/42-NMB-No.-3-Authorization-of-election.pdf


This is a two page , very easy read and very similar to our situation, and this JUST happened.

Oh, and NYer, they filed JOINTLY, which apparently to you makes it all cool, well it wasn't cool here.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Here is a sneak preview, I think, of what the NMB will/should do with the application of the Ass.https://storage.googleapis.com/dakota-dev-content/42-NMB-No.-3-Authorization-of-election.pdf
This is a two page , very easy read and very similar to our situation, and this JUST happened.
Oh, and NYer, they filed JOINTLY, which apparently to you makes it all cool, well it wasn't cool here.

Then second last paragraph really says it all.
There is 350 employees, 205 of them represented by the union the NMB placed on the ballot, 145 represented by the TWU , less than the REQUIRED 50%+1 showing of interest, DENIED.

Thats how it's supposed to work folks, and again, THEY FILED JOINTLY, a regular Cumbia love in, really cool new thing, ... Oh wait, no showing of interest?, sorry, rules are rules.

 

[toroshark]

That decision would be a welcome decision to all persons that I know of at my station.

 

[CMH_GSE]

That decision for the United Flight Dispatchers is pretty much identical to what we have.

Anything other than TWU on the ballot will open up the NMB to a lawsuit that would probably be pretty easy to win.

Just hand this decision to the judge.

 

[toroshark]

Wait for it.........Here comes a barrage of unobjective, personal agenda driven responses from the usual suspects! "Its different because......" "your selfish because. ....." , all easily translated to mean "That's not fair, how am I to profit off my supposed union brothers if this is the outcome?"

 

[bigjets]

Here is a sneak preview, I think, of what the NMB will/should do with the application of the Ass.https://storage.googleapis.com/dakota-dev-content/42-NMB-No.-3-Authorization-of-election.pdf
This is a two page , very easy read and very similar to our situation, and this JUST happened.
Oh, and NYer, they filed JOINTLY, which apparently to you makes it all cool, well it wasn't cool here.

Interesting I wonder if there will be interest in the twu. I can see the IAM getting interest from the USAir guys, as the iam got control of their retirement. Can you imagine the election campaign, two unions trashing each other because neither one can say what a great job they have done for the past 13 years. I'll start the campaign

TWU's current contract, and the contract before this one that lasted a decade.

IAM's current post bankruptcy contract, at an airline showing billion doar profits quarter after quarter.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Another thing about this decision gives clues as to why it's taking so long.

The NMB First determines if there is a single transportation system exists.

That's where the hang up is, they asked both unions for craft and class items, as there are differences.

THEN, they look at potential representation issues.
That part will take however long it takes to do the math on the two airlines mechanic and related groups memberships, a couple minutes, maybe.

 

[WeAAsles]

R-7408 UAL PAFCA/TWU, AFL-CIO 350-Flight Dispatchers 12/17/2014 Bonaca
http://www.nmb.gov/archive/activ-rpts/weekly-activity-report-december-8-december-12-2014/

 

[TWU informer]

Can you say WRITE IN campaign and total chaos?

 

[WeAAsles]

Can you say WRITE IN campaign and total chaos?

Write in campaign? Total chaos? Oh how soon we forget.
 
Here’s the count from the National Mediation Board:
Cast for Votes Share
Machinists 1,903 56.8%
Teamsters 1,418 42.3%
AMFA write-in 8 0.2%
No representation 21 0.6%
Total 3,350 100.0%
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/08/machinists-beat-teamsters-in-us-airways-vote-for-mechanics-and-related-employees.html/

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Write in campaign? Total chaos? Oh how soon we forget.
 
Here’s the count from the National Mediation Board:
Cast for Votes Share
Machinists 1,903 56.8%
Teamsters 1,418 42.3%
AMFA write-in 8 0.2%
No representation 21 0.6%
Total 3,350 100.0%
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2013/08/machinists-beat-teamsters-in-us-airways-vote-for-mechanics-and-related-employees.html/

 
Forget what? AMFA never ran a write in campaign on US
 
 
Well look at it this way ..... AMFA got 8 votes without running a campaign ..... how many did the TWU get?