TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[toroshark]

You and your buddies (weaasel and 700 ) are also attempting to reduce the amount of REAL information being put forth on this site by spewing such B.S. ,deflecting subjects, and acting as if you can't grasp fundamental concepts of discussion. YES, it is your right to say what you want on this website. It is also my right to call you out for being a true anti-UNION scum by using the facade of unionism to further yourself.

 

[WeAAsles]

You and your buddies (weaasel and 700 ) are also attempting to reduce the amount of REAL information being put forth on this site by spewing such B.S. ,deflecting subjects, and acting as if you can't grasp fundamental concepts of discussion. YES, it is your right to say what you want on this website. It is also my right to call you out for being a true anti-UNION scum by using the facade of unionism to further yourself.

What's your real information? I have yet to see anything that hasn't been refuted consistently? Actually it's you guys who hijack every subject that has nothing to do with the topic at all and run it into a tangent.

Do you want to TRY and get back to the actual subject now finally?

 

[Buck]

 
I don't believe the Members have to approve the Association agreement itself. We will, however, need to vote for the Association in order to give them the powers of collective bargaining as required by the NMB.

Thank You

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 

 
The Members of the IAM have much more to lose than the pilots and the flight attendants did.
 
The Members of the IAM have to consider their multi-employer medical and their multi-employer pension which is currently tied to their membership of the IAM. The medical piece is a huge difference in what they pay and what we pay, not to mention the quality of their coverage. The pension, even if you don't like it, is a system they have accrued over many, many years and they probably wouldn't want to just start another type of plan from scratch. Just those two issues would make it difficult to just walk away.
 
For us to say they should have just walked away is not really taking into consideration the situation they find themselves in, and is really a selfish thing to ask.

 
If the IAM is willing to let us remain TWU members and be in the IAMNPF then why aren't they willing to let those who are currently IAMNPF members continue to do so if they end up in the TWU? The IAM is willing to let (force?) TWU members, through their Association they are trying to force on all of us, into the IAMNPF but only if we agree to the Association, otherwise they will throw out people who have been in it for years. It seems the IAM is the one being selfish and unilateral here, I have no problem with allowing for and making the option for their continued participation in the IAMNPF a strike issue.  The IAM is the one thats saying "the Association or you are out", they don't have to,  you are saying that we should all agree to this Association because the IAM is trying to blackmail their own guys and saying we are being selfish for not caving in to the IAMs terms. I do not want the Association or the IAMNPF as I feel it will be disastrous to both my short term and long term professional well being, the IAM wants us to agree this disastrous  plan or they will punish their own members and that makes me selfish? Maybe we both should start fighting the IAM? If the only way they can hold their members is by trying to blackmail their members and use our sympathy for their members situation then maybe the sooner they are gone the better. Obviously they are not in this for the benefit of the workers. 
 
 
"Many, many, years" How many? You are leaving out the fact that even if the IAM did throw them out that their pensions, like ours, would be frozen, they would not lose a penny of earned benefits. 
 
Difficult to walk away? The IAM had no difficultly walking away from the TWA guys. Of course the millions in back IAMNPF contributions owed by TWA and the monies for the leased IAM owned engines may have made things easier. 
 
Yes we are saying the IAM should walk away, this way we can go in as one Union and fight off managements Union busting tactics and get a truly industry leading contract.

 

[NYer]

Selfish is YOU and your self-serving agenda buddies trying to sell out the current TWU membership by attempting to force them into the IAMPF. You can spin it anyway you want but the facts are that the plan is to have this Association and attempt to negotiate the 401k match away and replace it with the IAMPF. Whether the membership wants it or not. If the IAM chairs the association for the first 2 years then there is no way in hell we will ever get to vote on a JCBA that doesn't contain language to place us in the IAMPF. You are banking on manipulating information and taking advantage of a beat down membership to achieve this.What is your payout in the end for selling us all out?

 
Wow. Them's the facts, eh.
 
--The Association agreement is not a dictatorship, and needs both parties to agree to just about everything.
 
--Even if the IAMPF is something that comes out of the JCBA, the TWU Members are much more in numbers and don't have to accept something they don't want.
 
...But you can keep going with your conspiracy theories, if you'd like. They're quite amusing.

 

[NYer]

 
 
 
If the IAM is willing to let us remain TWU members and be in the IAMNPF then why aren't they willing to let those who are currently IAMNPF members continue to do so if they end up in the TWU? The IAM is willing to let (force?) TWU members, through their Association they are trying to force on all of us, into the IAMNPF but only if we agree to the Association, otherwise they will throw out people who have been in it for years. It seems the IAM is the one being selfish and unilateral here, I have no problem with allowing for and making the option for their continued participation in the IAMNPF a strike issue.  The IAM is the one thats saying "the Association or you are out", they don't have to,  you are saying that we should all agree to this Association because the IAM is trying to blackmail their own guys and saying we are being selfish for not caving in to the IAMs terms. I do not want the Association or the IAMNPF as I feel it will be disastrous to both my short term and long term professional well being, the IAM wants us to agree this disastrous  plan or they will punish their own members and that makes me selfish? Maybe we both should start fighting the IAM? If the only way they can hold their members is by trying to blackmail their members and use our sympathy for their members situation then maybe the sooner they are gone the better. Obviously they are not in this for the benefit of the workers. --We can't even decipher this with Google Translate. Good Lord what a ramble.
 
 
"Many, many, years" How many? You are leaving out the fact that even if the IAM did throw them out that their pensions, like ours, would be frozen, they would not lose a penny of earned benefits. --The wouldn't lose their accrued benefits, but they wouldn't be able to continue to accrue as they have an opportunity to do so with the IAM still under contract with AAL.
 
Difficult to walk away? The IAM had no difficultly walking away from the TWA guys. Of course the millions in back IAMNPF contributions owed by TWA and the monies for the leased IAM owned engines may have made things easier. --I guess a bankruptcy and a takeover by AMR is just a nuisance of a detail and had nothing to do with the TWA Members loss of their representation. It's very funny how you just choose the parts of the story you like
 
Yes we are saying the IAM should walk away, this way we can go in as one Union and fight off managements Union busting tactics and get a truly industry leading contract. --I thought you said there was no way to get an industry leading contract with the TWU and their broken system. Now it's the IAM that is holding back an industry leading contract. Tell me, do you get motion sickness from all that flip-flopping?

 

[CMH_GSE]

If the IAM is willing to let us remain TWU members and be in the IAMNPF then why aren't they willing to let those who are currently IAMNPF members continue to do so if they end up in the TWU? The IAM is willing to let (force?) TWU members, through their Association they are trying to force on all of us, into the IAMNPF but only if we agree to the Association, otherwise they will throw out people who have been in it for years. It seems the IAM is the one being selfish and unilateral here, I have no problem with allowing for and making the option for their continued participation in the IAMNPF a strike issue.  The IAM is the one thats saying "the Association or you are out", they don't have to,  you are saying that we should all agree to this Association because the IAM is trying to blackmail their own guys and saying we are being selfish for not caving in to the IAMs terms. I do not want the Association or the IAMNPF as I feel it will be disastrous to both my short term and long term professional well being, the IAM wants us to agree this disastrous  plan or they will punish their own members and that makes me selfish? Maybe we both should start fighting the IAM? If the only way they can hold their members is by trying to blackmail their members and use our sympathy for their members situation then maybe the sooner they are gone the better. Obviously they are not in this for the benefit of the workers. --We can't even decipher this with Google Translate. Good Lord what a ramble.
 
 
"Many, many, years" How many? You are leaving out the fact that even if the IAM did throw them out that their pensions, like ours, would be frozen, they would not lose a penny of earned benefits. --The wouldn't lose their accrued benefits, but they wouldn't be able to continue to accrue as they have an opportunity to do so with the IAM still under contract with AAL.
 
Difficult to walk away? The IAM had no difficultly walking away from the TWA guys. Of course the millions in back IAMNPF contributions owed by TWA and the monies for the leased IAM owned engines may have made things easier. --I guess a bankruptcy and a takeover by AMR is just a nuisance of a detail and had nothing to do with the TWA Members loss of their representation. It's very funny how you just choose the parts of the story you like
 
Yes we are saying the IAM should walk away, this way we can go in as one Union and fight off managements Union busting tactics and get a truly industry leading contract. --I thought you said there was no way to get an industry leading contract with the TWU and their broken system. Now it's the IAM that is holding back an industry leading contract. Tell me, do you get motion sickness from all that flip-flopping?

I didn't have any problem understanding the beat down Bob just gave you and all you could do was punt it.
There is no good way for you to spin what the IAM has in store for our pensions if this Ass goes through.

 

[WeAAsles]

Would someone, anyone please post "In Writing" any letters signed or otherwise that state it is the intention of the IAM and it's negotiators in conjunction with the TWU and it's negotiators (Int'l President, Sean Doyle, Dave Virella and Local Presidents who will be a part of those negotiations) to "PROPOSE" to the company American Airlines and it's negotiators that the frozen Fleet and Maintenance Pensions entrusted to AA are to be transferred, given or sold to the entity trust known as the IAM National Pension Fund.

Can ANYONE please produce the Boogeyman that is supposedly hiding in my closet or under my bed?

 

[Buck]

Would someone, anyone please post "In Writing" any letters signed or otherwise that state it is the intention of the IAM and it's negotiators in conjunction with the TWU and it's negotiators (Int'l President, Sean Doyle, Dave Virella and Local Presidents who will be a part of those negotiations) to "PROPOSE" to the company American Airlines and it's negotiators that the frozen Fleet and Maintenance Pensions entrusted to AA are to be transferred, given or sold to the entity trust known as the IAM National Pension Fund.

Can ANYONE please produce the Boogeyman that is supposedly hiding in my closet or under my bed?

Ask Brian Williams

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
 I don't agree with your numbers, but didn't AMFA take United and NWA from the IAM only to lose them too to non-union Delta and the IBT.
 
So the IAM is bad, but you champion AMFA who won those mechanics and then promptly lost them too.
 
Even if your numbers are correct (and I believe there were 13,000 mechanics at United), you're still arguing your choice is better than the IAM when they took those mechanics and promptly lost them.
 
If anything, maybe we should heed the actions of the United mechanics that quickly changed course with AMFA.
 
Wow. That's very telling.
 
"AMFA now represents more mechanics in the airline industry than any other union. Represented airlines include Northwest Airlines (lost them), Alaska Airlines and in January AMFA won certification at Southwest Airlines. With mechanics at United Airlines (lost them), AMFA represents over 20,000 (now, less than 3,000) active mechanics’ and related workers and is in the middle of volunteer organizing campaigns at American (lost), Delta (lost), US Airways (lost) and American West. (lost)"

 
Like i said before, you're free to disagree all you wish - but the fact is UAL mechanics peaked at just over 16,100 in 1999.  
 
Here is a link to The Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) - look it up
 
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databases.asp?Mode_ID=1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0
 
As for the rest of your little missive, thanks for the laugh   You continue to try and bash a union for losing members and at the same time advocate a union that by the same criteria has done far worse. 
 
The IAM Lost - UAL - NWA - Alaska - CAL - TWA - EAL - WN - etc etc 
 
Wow. That's very telling.

 

[NYer]

I didn't have any problem understanding the beat down Bob just gave you and all you could do was punt it.
There is no good way for you to spin what the IAM has in store for our pensions if this Ass goes through.

 
You are so easily entertained, no wonder someone that has given nothing more than hot air has maintained the attention of a few malcontents.

 

[NYer]

 
Like i said before, you're free to disagree all you wish - but the fact is UAL mechanics peaked at just over 16,100 in 1999.  
 
Here is a link to The Bureau of Transportation Statistics (BTS) - look it up
 
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/databases.asp?Mode_ID=1&Mode_Desc=Aviation&Subject_ID2=0
 
As for the rest of your little missive, thanks for the laugh   You continue to try and bash a union for losing members and at the same time advocate a union that by the same criteria has done far worse. 
 
The IAM Lost - UAL - NWA - Alaska - CAL - TWA - EAL - WN - etc etc 
 
Wow. That's very telling.

 
Au contraire mon ami...I have always acknowledged other unions losing members. The difference is that those losses by the IAM, in this instance, is somehow used to make an argument they are not worthy as opposed to AMFA. The argument that the IAM sucks because they lost members, so let's go AMFA is utterly ridiculous since you have also acknowledged they have lost members also. 
 
We can even argue the losses by AMFA are worse, in this context, because they lost those members after gaining them from the IAM. If we want to take that as a history lesson, then it seems clear AMFA is not the answer since once others get a taste of them more often than not, those mechanics end up elsewhere. 

 

[saywhat]

Go to iam141.org and click on US Airways, there was a joint agreement by the TWU and IAM that says they will try to negotiate the IAM pension for the single agreement.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
 
 
 
"Many, many, years" How many? You are leaving out the fact that even if the IAM did throw them out that their pensions, like ours, would be frozen, they would not lose a penny of earned benefits. --The wouldn't lose their accrued benefits, but they wouldn't be able to continue to accrue as they have an opportunity to do so with the IAM still under contract with AAL.
 
 

 
 
Back when they were looking to change Retiree medical from pre-funding to where we pay all the cost weren't you claiming that we weren't losing retiree medical, that they were just changing the way that its paid?   Wouldn't that apply here? Instead of $2/hr times a max of 2080 hrs per year  going into a fund administered by the IAMNPF they would get a 5.5% match on whatever they put in their 401K on all hours worked. Actually the 5.5% match, converted to a contribution (like other work groups at AA were able to negotiate)  would require a higher capital draw from AA than the $2 contribution to the IAMNPF. 
 
The worst that can happen to them, and some at US don't consider the AA match any worse than the IAMNPF, is they get what we get, a frozen pension with a 401K match on all earnings going forward. To me the fix is to negotiate a 10% contribution to the 401k ,not all get forced into a sketchy pension run by a Union we are not members of (unless we transfer to an IAM city or they decide to do a member swap).
 
Like I said, the opportunity to continue in the IAMNPF is the IAMs decision, not mine. If the IAM intends to let thousands of TWU members into the plan through the Association, as stated already in their agreement with the TWU, then why wont the IAM let people who are in the plan remain in the plan even though they are now in the TWU? 
 
Can you understand that? 

 

[Hackman]

What does it matter to you? Why does a MIA FSC give so much of a fork who represents M&R? Are you a TWU flunkie? TWU flunkie wannabe?
 
You whack a hornets nest with a stick and wonder why there is a swarm of 'em coming after you...

I have been wondering this same thing for years. There was a certain female stock clerk that the TWu International appointed to be the anti-AMFA spokes model for the TWu. I had a chance to meet her one day, and asked why she thought she should have a say in what union we the AMT's choose since she was a stock clerk with no vote in our election?  She was very defensive, and said AMFA wanted to outsource her job and that we were elitists for wanting our own AMT craft union for AMT's.  I just laughed at her ignorance, and told her to kindly worry about her own job class, not mine. She doesn't know what I need or don't in a union. 
 
I don't care who represents the pilots, the F/A's, or dispatchers, that's their business and I'm not over on their threads or web sites telling them how the APA or the APFA is elitist or they are trying to take bread off my table.