TWU-IAM Finally Getting Ready for JCBA Negotiations

[MetalMover]

And we had 14000 AMT's now down to just under 7600. So what's your point?

He ignores the fact the the IAM lost the most jobs in the history of the airline industry. He conveniently refuses to give the job loss figures of both the IAM and the TWU.. He does his homework when comes to criticizing AMFA, but when it come to the TWU, IAM or the association...well the dog ate his homework....

 

[WeAAsles]

Ok, so where is the BENEFIT in losing jobs and members. You would think that with these numbers, your salary would've gone UP $4.00 instead of going down. Isn't that what you and NYer have been whining about? that AA has more mechanics than any other airline? What is the excuse for fleet service? You lost a multitude of people but yet your pay does has not reflected the gains made by outsourcing.

 

Oh my God, does this really need to continue to be spelled out? American Airlines is a business. And that business doesn't live in a vacuum. 

I know for an absolute fact that you are 100% smarter than the question you just asked me.

 

[WeAAsles]

You like to quote jobs lost under AMFA's watch.....Ok how about telling us how many jobs the IAM lost and the TWU?
The IAM once dominated the airline industry....What are their numbers now?

How many "In House" jobs has the ENTIRE US Airline industry lost since Eastern went under? How many low cost carriers took away market share? 

Many of your better paid "Golden era" airline jobs have been outsourced by members voting to give themselves raises over jobs and by the hand of Judges in Bankruptcies.

Do you guys have a serious aversion to facing the fact of those realities?

 

[NYer]

So IF a vote does come to the membership will there still be time to submit cards? Say like 30 days or so givin from the NMB?  You guys should be preparing for the worse, have enough cards collected to submit and get AMFA on the ballot and not as a write-in option.  Most all people do not know how the write-in option works.  Now this question is purely IF there is a vote (as the TWU/IAM has promised) at least in their Q and A's.  Or will this association get rammed down the throats of the membership with no say so what so ever?  If this is the case then I predict chaos from the membership.  I honestly can't see the NMB spending this much time on the groups, prior to any kind of vote.  Why would they spend all these efforts and time and money on something that very well may not get voted in IF there is a vote.  It would seem they would want a vote prior to them spending all this time on it to ensure their time is not wasted, this concerns me a great deal that quite possibly the BS association may have squeezed this association thru the NMB.  But then again it is our gov agencies at work on tax payers dollars.  I honestly hope my theory is completely wrong and you guys to get a vote, as long as there is a time frame to submit any cards from any other interested party...

 
Anyone that wants another option has had since last August to collect and submit cards. Once the NMB announces their determination, there will be another 30 day period to collect cards and submit for their placement on the ballot. Of course, it seems no one is doing that because they're too busy complaining they're getting soaked instead of being pro-active and getting their choice on the ballot.
 
Of course, it is also probable there isn't enough interest for a 50% collection of cards so they need to "create" a reason for the ability to get something going.

 

[NYer]

 
Not with the IAM - The IAM has lost in excess of 85% of their peak AMT membership.

 
And we know this how? Because you said so? Your assertion, so show me the numbers.

 

[NYer]

You and your spinning agenda are so full of it. A vote of the Association,twu,or iam would be a credible voting scenario. A vote of the Association or no representation is a gun to the head. And that is the options that the Q&A stated that we would have. SOOOO start spinning and deflecting to try and further your self-serving agenda.

 
Never said it was Association, TWU and IAM on the ballot, that information is readily available. The two unions decided they wanted to move forward with the Association, so here we go.
 
If you want another choice then you have the ability to go out and get cards signed to place the TWU, the IAM, AMP or AMFA on the ballot. If enough people want it, they can get it.
 
If this isn't your preference then go to work and make a change. You've already wasted 6 months crying about what you don't want. Get out there and work for what you do want. It can be done, if you want it.

 

[WeAAsles]

Here. This was written in 2008 and I think many of the dynamics have now changed with all of the consolidation but it does create a very clear picture of what we ALL went through.

"Airfares, when adjusted for inflation, have fallen 25 percent since 1991, and, according to Clifford Winston and Steven Morrison of the Brookings Institution, are 22 percent lower than they would have been had regulation continued (Morrison and Winston 2000). Since passenger deregulation in 1978, airline prices have fallen 44.9 percent in real terms according to the Air Transport Association. Robert Crandall and Jerry Ellig (1997) estimated that when figures are adjusted for changes in quality and amenities, passengers save $19.4 billion dollars per year from airline deregulation. These savings have been passed on to 80 percent of passengers accounting for 85 percent of passenger miles. The real benefits of airline deregulation are being felt today as never before, with LCCs increasingly gaining market share."

"Although the gains of economic liberalization have been substantial, fundamental problems plague the industry. Some of these problems are transitional, the massive adjustments required by the end of a half century of strict regulation. The regulated airline monopolies received returns on capital that were supposed to be “reasonable” (comparable to what a company might expect to receive in a competitive market), but these returns factored in high costs that often would not exist in a competitive market. For example, the airlines’ unionized workforce, established and strengthened under regulation and held in place by the Railway Labor Act, gained generous salaries and inefficient work rules compared with what would be expected in a competitive market."

"The Air Transport Association reports that the U.S. airline industry experienced net losses of $23.2 billion from 2001 through 2003, though the LCCs largely remained profitable. While the September 11, 2001, terrorist attack and its aftermath are a major factor in the industry’s hardships, they only accelerated an already developing trend within the industry. The industry was experiencing net operating losses for many reasons, including the mild recession, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), and the increase in LCC services and the decline in business fares relied on by legacy carriers. Higher fuel prices, residual labor union problems, fears of terrorism, and the intrusive measures that government now uses to clear travelers through security checkpoints are further drags on the industry."

And we are now seeing some of this come to pass.
 
We are finally seeing the kinds of internal restructuring among airlines that was expected from deregulation. Yet, government still has much to do to ensure that the airline market will thrive in the future. The FAA is a command-and-control government agency ill-suited to providing air traffic control services to a dynamic industry. Land slots and airport space should be allocated using market prices instead of through administrative fiat. International competition will increase, and rules regarding national ownership need to change accordingly.
If the government deregulates the grid and transitions toward a market solution, the benefits of flow deregulation will increase, and costs for air travelers will fall even more.

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/AirlineDeregulation.html

So no worker in any major airline in North America was immune to all these things. Didn't matter and doesn't matter who represented you or who you wanted to represent you. Everyone faced the torture. No one was immune to it except as usual the CEO's. And they will always get paid whether we like it or not. And they don't care how much it pisses us off either.
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Re-Structuring and a Return to Profitability in 2006
The challenges described above led four out of the six US Legacy carriers (US Airways, United, Delta and Northwest) into Chapter 11 bankruptcy between 2001 and 2005. Under bankruptcy protection, these carriers were able to focus on down-sizing, cutting operating costs and improving productivity as part of their re-structuring efforts. And, the other two Legacy carriers, American and Continental, used the threat of bankruptcy filing to do the same. Much of their cost-cutting strategy focused on labor: Legacy airline employment was reduced by 30% in just five years, representing over 100,000 jobs lost while average wage rates were also cut by 7% [4]. At the same time, the Legacy airlines sought productivity gains not only by reducing headcount, but also by introducing new technologies (e.g., internet ticket distribution, web check-in) and by moving capacity from domestic to international routes in an effort to improve aircraft utilization with increased stage lengths. Legacy carriers also attempted to mimic several strategies of the Low Cost Carriers (LCCs), for example, by eliminating meals and pillows to reduce costs and by reducing aircraft turn-around times to improve aircraft productivity.
LCCs in many respects took advantage of the weaknesses of the Legacy carriers during their financial crisis and re-structuring. Most LCCs were able to rapidly expand their networks and captured significant market share. They expanded into new markets with new aircraft, more flights and, of course, lower fares. However, during this same period the LCCs began to face increasing operating costs, driven by aging fleets and personnel with increasingly more seniority. And, the LCCs could not escape the impacts of more than a doubling in fuel costs between 2003 and 2005 – even the successful fuel hedging strategy of Southwest provided only a temporary reprieve from increasing fuel costs.
In fact, the concerted cost-cutting efforts of both Legacy and LCC airlines were not enough to offset the increased fuel prices, resulting in growing total unit costs for both airline groups (Figure 4) from 2001 to 2006. However, while total unit costs continued to increase due primarily to the impact of higher fuel prices, labor unit costs showed a very different trend – they have decreased dramatically for Legacy airlines, while they continue to increase among LCCs. As shown in Figure 5, there has been a clear labor cost convergence between both groups and the historical advantage that LCCs have had in this category was effectively eliminated by 2006. Indeed for the first time in 2006, LCC employees had on average a higher total compensation and benefits than their Legacy counterparts. Amazingly, the carrier with the highest labor expense per employee among Legacy and LCC airline in 2006 was Southwest [5].

http://web.mit.edu/airlines/analysis/analysis_airline_industry.html

 

[NYer]

Ok AMFA lost jobs...What is your response to the IAM and the TWU losing jobs? I guess from your perspective the IAM and TWU lost jobs because of economics and a changing airline environment...but AMFA lost jobs.....why?

 
They probably lost jobs for the same reasons, plus the strike at NWA.

 

[NYer]

You like to quote jobs lost under AMFA's watch.....Ok how about telling us how many jobs the IAM lost and the TWU?
The IAM once dominated the airline industry....What are their numbers now?

 
Everyone has a lot less than they did.

 

[NYer]

He ignores the fact the the IAM lost the most jobs in the history of the airline industry. He conveniently refuses to give the job loss figures of both the IAM and the TWU.. He does his homework when comes to criticizing AMFA, but when it come to the TWU, IAM or the association...well the dog ate his homework....

 
By all means share the numbers.

 

[MetalMover]

 

Oh my God, does this really need to continue to be spelled out? American Airlines is a business. And that business doesn't live in a vacuum. 

I know for an absolute fact that you are 100% smarter than the question you just asked me.

Please spell it out....You and NYer have been ranting about how many more mechanics has than other airlines. You accuse me and others of advocating outsourcing  so me can increase our pay by doing so...So you mention that your group ALSO lost thousands of jobs....My question to you is quite simple....If having lost all those jobs, why are you not making way more than you do now? Isn't that the reason for your and NYers' attack on me? Claiming I, others and AMFA of wanting to outsource jobs and OH so we can reap the benefits? If you are going to claim that we want headcount reductions to fatten our wallets, then I ask you why has that NOT happened with the thousands of job losses we have already experienced?
And please spare me the condescending remarks as if you have an MBA and need to talk down to me as if you know everything...

 

[MetalMover]

 
They probably lost jobs for the same reasons, plus the strike at NWA.

So why do continually state the job losses under AMFA's watch, but do not mention the losses under the IAM and TWU?

 

[MetalMover]

 
By all means share the numbers.

No, no..you post the numbers because you only seem to have AMFA data..I don't need a fact sheet to know that the IAM lost the most jobs...they dominated nearly every airline with the exception of DL, PA and AA..

 

[MetalMover]

How many "In House" jobs has the ENTIRE US Airline industry lost since Eastern went under? How many low cost carriers took away market share? 

Many of your better paid "Golden era" airline jobs have been outsourced by members voting to give themselves raises over jobs and by the hand of Judges in Bankruptcies.

Do you guys have a serious aversion to facing the fact of those realities?

Do you? It seems that you and NYer only post facts about AMFA, but when asked about the IAM and TWU, you skirt the issue. So basically what you are saying is that the job losses by the TWU and IAM were because of the INDUSTRY, yet NYer constantly reminds us of the losses under AMFA as if it was a failure on their part. Let me remind you, I am near 4 decades in this business. I was in this business before deregulation. You and NYer do not need to nor CAN you school me in what has happened to this industry. You can quote any financial paper and post it here as if it were your thesis for a higher degree. 
I know damn well the industry changed. I lived it. I suffered from it. We are still affected by it. What you and NYer fail to comprehend is that the TWU spearheaded these changes long before the threat and reality of bankruptcy came into play. I want the TWU to stop bending the membership over with false promises of job protection. Don't you think we all gave enough back? Where are you willing to draw the line?