TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[Bob Owens]

 
 
If we had UNIONS like Canada and Europe we would have those laws you desire. They shut the country down when needed, laws or no laws, they show their force.

And both have relevant Socialist (Labor) parties, in this country Unionists refute Socialist ideology, they refute the roots of Labor Unions and have never made a serious attempt at forming a Labor party like most advanced democracies have.  We just have two Capitalist Parties, the Democrats and Republicans. In England they had the Liberals and the Tories, same situation as us, The liberal Party of England was like our Democratic party, "we feel your pain but we cant (wont) do anything about it". The Tories were like our Republican Party "We know you are suffering but its Gods will". Both parties serve the interests of the rich. But in England and most of Europe they developed relevant Socialist (Labor) Parties to which most of the Unions are heavily aligned. The Capitalist Parties generally still rule but normally coalitions are formed and labor does much better than they do here where Labor alligned themselves with the Democrats who as often as not forget what labor is looking for and bows to the same masters as the Republicans.  Europeans generally require a majority vote to take office, meaning that the winner has to get the majority of the votes cast, not just the most votes of all the candidates, much more Democratic than we have. 
 
In the early part of the 1900's Robert Tressell came out with a book that had even more impact in England than Uncle Toms Cabin had in the US. The book was "The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists". You wont find it in many US bookstores but you can get it online. 

 

[NYer]

Dynamics may not support a cost neutral contract. But the TWU will be willing to buy into it as always.

 
If the APA accepts the last proposal from Parker, they won't have a cost neutral JCBA.If they go to arbitration, then they would get a cost neutral CBA. The APFA didn't get a cost neutral CBA either, even in arbitration, and then they got $80M on top of that, then another 4%.
 
Each of those groups would be 7% higher in pay than Delta.

 

[MetalMover]

 
If the APA accepts the last proposal from Parker, they won't have a cost neutral JCBA.If they go to arbitration, then they would get a cost neutral CBA. The APFA didn't get a cost neutral CBA either, even in arbitration, and then they got $80M on top of that, then another 4%.
 
Each of those groups would be 7% higher in pay than Delta.

Go back into all your mental records of contracts other than fleet service. The TWU has ALWAYS negotiated contracts that were industry losing. the pilots and FA's have always come about better in negotiations than the TWU. They may have have taken it in the shorts as well but nowhere as much as the TWU allowed its members to.

 

[700UW]

Explain the TWU negotiated CBAs at WN for the ramp and FAs then, highest pay in the industry.

 

[Zom JFK]

Because that's what WN wants to pay their people. Total opposite corporate culture than American. WN values their employees, AA...not so much.

 

[737823]

Explain the TWU negotiated CBAs at WN for the ramp and FAs then, highest pay in the industry.

I thought you said your IAM CO CBA had the highest F/A pay rates.

Josh

 

[TWU informer]

I thought you said your IAM CO CBA had the highest F/A pay rates.

Josh

Josh, with 700, it's not about the facts, it's about fear mongering defense of the status quo because he/she fears change. Most unskilled fear change because they know they are screwed if the current system changes, because their worth is much less than their current pay/benefits.

 

[700UW]

CO was the highest paid of the legacies, WN isnt considered a legacy carrier.

 

[MetalMover]

Explain the TWU negotiated CBAs at WN for the ramp and FAs then, highest pay in the industry.

If you explain the TWU represented mechanics being paid the lowest in the industry with fewer holidays, no double time, and only 5 sick days?

 

[700UW]

Ask your idol Bob Owens he is your NC member on the board.

 

[NYer]

Go back into all your mental records of contracts other than fleet service. The TWU has ALWAYS negotiated contracts that were industry losing. the pilots and FA's have always come about better in negotiations than the TWU. They may have have taken it in the shorts as well but nowhere as much as the TWU allowed its members to.

 
Hey, you're the one that promotes the democratic way is the way to go. Those CBA's were voted for my maintenance personnel...not another title group.
 
Oh I forgot....it's always the fault of someone else.

 

[MetalMover]

 
Hey, you're the one that promotes the democratic way is the way to go. Those CBA's were voted for my maintenance personnel...not another title group.
 
Oh I forgot....it's always the fault of someone else.

And YOU'RE the one who doesn't believe their should be a VOTE for the alliance!
Is that democratic?
As far as my work group voting in the CBA, thank the TWU for dividing OH and LM....Contract after contract past has been in favor of OH because of their "roll call" status. But that table has turned.

 

[NYer]

Explain the TWU negotiated CBAs at WN for the ramp and FAs then, highest pay in the industry.

 
See on the one hand, they're the lowest even though the negotiators are voted on by the Members. Those negotiators blame the International, but the Members vote for the CBA's. It's a vicious circle.
 
Then they go and compare themselves to other airlines pay rates like SWA or UPS, but if you tell them those pay rates are subsidized by having less mechanics, then they don't want the comparisons as much. It becomes a different topic. There is a reason the CBA's are voted in and that's because those Members that are the most likely to lose their positions are the ones that try to protect their jobs.
 
Even had a former Local President that believed it was better for AA to liquidate because there was a shortage of mechanics and whomever took over the AA routes would be forced to pay better rates. Nevermind that would put tens of thousands out of a job....Quite bizarre.

 

[MetalMover]

 
See on the one hand, they're the lowest even though the negotiators are voted on by the Members. Those negotiators blame the International, but the Members vote for the CBA's. It's a vicious circle.
 
Then they go and compare themselves to other airlines pay rates like SWA or UPS, but if you tell them those pay rates are subsidized by having less mechanics, then they don't want the comparisons as much. It becomes a different topic. There is a reason the CBA's are voted in and that's because those Members that are the most likely to lose their positions are the ones that try to protect their jobs.
 
Even had a former Local President that believed it was better for AA to liquidate because there was a shortage of mechanics and whomever took over the AA routes would be forced to pay better rates. Nevermind that would put tens of thousands out of a job....Quite bizarre.

Once again, blame the division of OH and LM for bad cab's past. The TWU is famous for playing on the fears of OH crying job loss of they voted in BS contract after BS contract.
 
But keep ignoring this Nyer.
 
hey, I have an idea NYer how to get ZERO unemployment in this country...Let's pay EVERYONE who is not management minimum wage...You know this way everybody has a job!

 

[NYer]

And YOU'RE the one who doesn't believe their should be a VOTE for the alliance!
Is that democratic?
As far as my work group voting in the CBA, thank the TWU for dividing OH and LM....Contract after contract past has been in favor of OH because of their "roll call" status. But that table has turned.

 
You're changing the subject again...can't you focus on one thing at a time?
 
Those contracts have passed because those in OH realize their positions are the first to go...a position that is virtually extinct in the rest of the legacy airline industry. And the Roll Call is a democratic vehicle whereby that Local is able to use a vote for each other their Members. You value democracy, so that's the embodiment of democracy, unless of course that democratic vote goes against you. In that case, you'd rather have a handful of Presidents make the decision for the majority. Can't have it both ways, Metal.