TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[Deleted member 14439]

No.  Especially when you know that if something ever breaks they send overhaul guys over there to fix it.  Do they send guys from DWH to fix stuff in DFW?  I doubt it.

Nope. If an aircraft is OTS at DFW, we (DWH) go pick it up if at the terminal. If its at one of DFWs hangars, they bring it to us.

 

[Bob Owens]

As far as I recall, the OH mechanics that get sent to the terminal are because the plane they sent from the hanger broke (warranty work). If a line plane breaks the hanger mechanics don't go fix it. If the terminal can't fix it the plane is sent to the hangers and it becomes a drop in.

What's a hangEr mechanic? A hanger is something you put your coat on, a Hangar is a building you put airplanes in.

 

[scorpion 2]

GEO pay could be based on some economic factor for cost of living. All stations could get GEO pay, but some more than others depending on location.
Would calling it LINE differential make it more palatable? 

When I hired in line premium was .10 an hour. I have no idea what if any it is now since I havent seen a contract book in years.  The 2010 deal that was turned down had some sort of gimmick pay scale in it that would have given a VERY small group of line guys 2nd place in pay.  Some fleet service guys butting into our conversations claim that that contract was the bomb but in reality it was a piece of ####.  Very few would have fell thru the cracks and received the top pay since the company could have changed the start time of the line guys that would have gotten the premium. In doing so (changing the start time) they would not have qualified for the premium pay.  It needs to be GEO pay or nothing since the company chooses to play games with hours of work and weekend coverage bullshit. I'm a Tulsa guy but I understand what you are saying.  

 

[Rogallo]

What's a hangEr mechanic? A hanger is something you put your coat on, a Hangar is a building you put airplanes in.

 
And that's what we deal with everyday Bob!

 

[Bob Owens]

How many airlines have GEO pay for their mechanics?  Should DFW get GEO pay?  Housing there is close to Tulsa but since they have line guys there do they get GEO pay? What about the base guys there?  Hell some guys from Tulsa go to Dallas to buy cars because they can get a better deal than in Tulsa.
 
When there is a roll call vote the Tulsa Pres Knows before the vote that it is coming and the international job awaits him when he plays ball. I think there should be GEO pay but not just because your a line guy. Tulsa has line mechanics should they get GEO pay?   How do you convince Tulsa AMT's of something they have no voice in? 

GEO pay is based on where you live. Tulsa objected to the increased Line premium that was in the 2010 deal and objected during negotiations afterwards to increased Line pay but not GEO. They objected to the Line guys getting $2/hr more than the base guys in Tulsa. 
 
So Tulsa would be the baseline set at ZERO, DFW was around the same as TULSA so they would not have received GEO either, the Northeast and West Coast would have received the most, then MIA and ORD. The GEO was not a dollar for dollar adjustment to bring everyone up to the same standard of living, not even close, but it was something, better than nothing. 
 
Sam was Ok with GEO, Luis went to NY and told the guys he supported GEO but later withdrew his support, upon direction from Videtich no doubt. Hewitt stated that if the Line got one penny more than Tulsa any deal was D.O.A.  So the position we see from Tulsa changes. The company never addressed it. Why would they? They like it better that there is resentment amongst the ranks. GEO wouldn't come close to matching up living standards but if would do a lot to foster better harmony within the Union between those who are struggling to get from one paycheck to the next and those who are concerned that should they lose their job at AA they would not be able to maintain what they have become accustomed to. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
And that's what we deal with everyday Bob!

Another favorite is 'are"(our). Such as "We think are Contract is the best". 

 

[WeAAsles]

GEO pay is based on where you live. Tulsa objected to the increased Line premium that was in the 2010 deal and objected during negotiations afterwards to increased Line pay but not GEO. They objected to the Line guys getting $2/hr more than the base guys in Tulsa. 
 
So Tulsa would be the baseline set at ZERO, DFW was around the same as TULSA so they would not have received GEO either, the Northeast and West Coast would have received the most, then MIA and ORD. The GEO was not a dollar for dollar adjustment to bring everyone up to the same standard of living, not even close, but it was something, better than nothing. 
 
Sam was Ok with GEO, Luis went to NY and told the guys he supported GEO but later withdrew his support, upon direction from Videtich no doubt. Hewitt stated that if the Line got one penny more than Tulsa any deal was D.O.A.  So the position we see from Tulsa changes. The company never addressed it. Why would they? They like it better that there is resentment amongst the ranks. GEO wouldn't come close to matching up living standards but if would do a lot to foster better harmony within the Union between those who are struggling to get from one paycheck to the next and those who are concerned that should they lose their job at AA they would not be able to maintain what they have become accustomed to.

Plus 1.

I've heard people say (In low COL areas of course) that GEO pay is anti union. BS. Not supporting GEO pay for your OWN selfish needs is anti union. Saying that someone should move if they don't like it is anti union.

 

[Bob Owens]

When I hired in line premium was .10 an hour. I have no idea what if any it is now since I havent seen a contract book in years.  The 2010 deal that was turned down had some sort of gimmick pay scale in it that would have given a VERY small group of line guys 2nd place in pay.  Some fleet service guys butting into our conversations claim that that contract was the bomb but in reality it was a piece of ####.  Very few would have fell thru the cracks and received the top pay since the company could have changed the start time of the line guys that would have gotten the premium. In doing so (changing the start time) they would not have qualified for the premium pay.  It needs to be GEO pay or nothing since the company chooses to play games with hours of work and weekend coverage bullshit. I'm a Tulsa guy but I understand what you are saying.  

 Line premium is .50, the company offered $2 in 2010.has to do with whether you work the Line or OH base, so Tulsa Line would have received it but not the base.  
 
The "start time gimmick' revolved around MRT, which is a premium the company pays AMTs on the line who work Nights. In 2010 they wanted to increase that but change the start time window which would allow Videtich and the company(along with some who post here) to claim that our all in book rate was the highest of all the bankrupt carriers but the smaller window would allow the company to still have 24 hour coverage without anybody collecting the Premium, but on paper they still still make the claim. 

 

[MetalMover]

GEO pay is based on where you live. Tulsa objected to the increased Line premium that was in the 2010 deal and objected during negotiations afterwards to increased Line pay but not GEO. They objected to the Line guys getting $2/hr more than the base guys in Tulsa. 
 
So Tulsa would be the baseline set at ZERO, DFW was around the same as TULSA so they would not have received GEO either, the Northeast and West Coast would have received the most, then MIA and ORD. The GEO was not a dollar for dollar adjustment to bring everyone up to the same standard of living, not even close, but it was something, better than nothing. 
 
Sam was Ok with GEO, Luis went to NY and told the guys he supported GEO but later withdrew his support, upon direction from Videtich no doubt. Hewitt stated that if the Line got one penny more than Tulsa any deal was D.O.A.  So the position we see from Tulsa changes. The company never addressed it. Why would they? They like it better that there is resentment amongst the ranks. GEO wouldn't come close to matching up living standards but if would do a lot to foster better harmony within the Union between those who are struggling to get from one paycheck to the next and those who are concerned that should they lose their job at AA they would not be able to maintain what they have become accustomed to. 

And people want to know why we want the TWU gone.

 

[scorpion 2]

GEO pay is based on where you live. Tulsa objected to the increased Line premium that was in the 2010 deal and objected during negotiations afterwards to increased Line pay but not GEO. They objected to the Line guys getting $2/hr more than the base guys in Tulsa. 
 
So Tulsa would be the baseline set at ZERO, DFW was around the same as TULSA so they would not have received GEO either, the Northeast and West Coast would have received the most, then MIA and ORD. The GEO was not a dollar for dollar adjustment to bring everyone up to the same standard of living, not even close, but it was something, better than nothing. 
 
Sam was Ok with GEO, Luis went to NY and told the guys he supported GEO but later withdrew his support, upon direction from Videtich no doubt. Hewitt stated that if the Line got one penny more than Tulsa any deal was D.O.A.  So the position we see from Tulsa changes. The company never addressed it. Why would they? They like it better that there is resentment amongst the ranks. GEO wouldn't come close to matching up living standards but if would do a lot to foster better harmony within the Union between those who are struggling to get from one paycheck to the next and those who are concerned that should they lose their job at AA they would not be able to maintain what they have become accustomed to. 

Now we are getting somewhere.   Luis, Videtich and Weel all got busted by the chairman of title 2 while going to have a private meeting during the 2010 negotiations. You are very astute in your assumptions that Videtich was involved in the change of heart by Luis.  

 

[Flying low]

What's a hangEr mechanic? A hanger is something you put your coat on, a Hangar is a building you put airplanes in.

I'm so SORRY Bob, for the spelling error. Next time I post something I'll run it by my school teacher first.

 

[Vortilon]

Another favorite is 'are"(our). Such as "We think are Contract is the best". 

 
 
My favorite is "sense" instead of "since".

 

[WeAAsles]

My favorite is "sense" instead of "since".

There, their, they're.

 

[lineguy43]

Explain the TWU negotiated CBAs at WN for the ramp and FAs then, highest pay in the industry.

 
A couple of things explain it. First as others have said WN is a different animal at least in past history the relationship between management and employees has been a good one so it its not so much that the TWU have such awesome negotiating skills. Second and probably the real reason is the NMB class and craft structure. Ramp and FA's at WN same union different class and crafts and contracts negotiated as such. AMT's at WN different union and the the "related" in the mechanics and related at WN there are very little "related" workers like cleaners welders GSE clerks etc..As for AA the AMT's wonder why sim techs make more than they do. Well sim techs are a small group just like dispatchers company tends to give them a better shake for the most part but even more is that sim techs are in a seperate class and craft all their own. They do not have others lumped in with them. There is a lot to be said for that. Here at FX we are non-union and sim techs do not make anywhere near what AMT's do. Neither does GSE. License premium here is 9.33 cents per license so 18.66 and hr for an A@P . We have the highest license premium bar none in the industry. Even non union Jetblue and Delta have better salary and benefits then any AMT's repersented by the IAM or TWU. So I would like you to make the case for us why the IAM or TWU is worth having if you are an AMT? 

 

[Bob Owens]

Plus 1.

I've heard people say (In low COL areas of course) that GEO pay is anti union. BS. Not supporting GEO pay for your OWN selfish needs is anti union. Saying that someone should move if they don't like it is anti union.

To those who say its anti-union (Gary Yingst comes to mind) I would say show me a National Union contract outside the airline industry that does not factor in Cost of living. The fact is you wont find one. Union Plumbers in Tulsa do not make anywhere near what Union plumbers in NY make, same with pretty much every class and craft of worker outside the Airline Industry. Harry Lombardo's mechanics in Philadelphia Mass Transit don't make what John Samuelsons mechanics in NY make (and the difference between NY and PA is nowhere near what it is between NY and OK). Only in the airlines do you have this situation where workers in a very low cost area set wages for the whole country based on their needs or more accurately, fears. Government workers have National Contracts and those contracts do factor in Cost of Living.