TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[Bob Owens]

I do know many here in Tulsa talk about voting no on the TA in 1989 only to have the international to come back with the exact same deal months later only with no back pay.  This is one reason why the first deal passes. I was pleasantly surprised that the 2010 TA failed but local 514 put the fear into a lot of people in 2012.  But Bob one thing that bothers me.........  Why are Title 2 mechanics included in the mechanic head count.  They do nothing on the acft so they should not be included in the numbers.  

Because we share a contract and are in the same Class and Craft. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Because we share a contract and are in the same Class and Craft. 

Kinda stupid though.  Plumbers, auto mechanics and electricians are quite different than aircraft mechanics.  Too bad the sim techs aren't in with us.  They get a lot more money than we do for working on pretend airplanes.

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Maybe it gets voted in because even though they vote no several times the International makes no effort to make the deal better and lets year after year go by  and blocks any attempt to move the process forward. 
 
Just because YOU say their rates are subsidized by having less maintenance doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it. Once again, if low wages mean more mechanics then why doesn't Eagle have more more mechanics than AA? 
 
You claim that younger workers vote YES to save their jobs but JFK and LGA are the most Junior stations in the system and they voted 96% NO. The yes vote slid by with the narrowest of margins and that was provided by the early out, which wold be the most senior workers who just wanted to get out.

Exactly! I believe the 95 contract was passed in the same manner leaving the rest of us holding our Socks..The TWU/AA leadership will Target a minority of members and Scare another minority achieving a slim majority vote, this is FACT this is HISTORY!

 

[WeAAsles]

I do know many here in Tulsa talk about voting no on the TA in 1989 only to have the international to come back with the exact same deal months later only with no back pay.  This is one reason why the first deal passes. I was pleasantly surprised that the 2010 TA failed but local 514 put the fear into a lot of people in 2012.  But Bob one thing that bothers me.........  Why are Title 2 mechanics included in the mechanic head count.  They do nothing on the acft so they should not be included in the numbers.  

Old Guy what are you doing? You can't tell any group publicly that you don't want them. If you tell them now they'll never send in those AMFA cards. You need every card you can get.

Don't put up things like this publicly or you can hurt the whole charade. Keep it in the breakrooms man.

 

[scorpion 2]

Exactly! I believe the 95 contract was passed in the same manner leaving the rest of us holding our Socks..The TWU/AA leadership will Target a minority of members and Scare another minority achieving a slim majority vote, this is FACT this is HISTORY!

 

MM I think you need to realize that the TWU International has done this, not Tulsa.  You must understand that the local puts the full court press on when there is a TA and sells it like it was the best thing since sliced bread.  Nobody in Tulsa is out to screw the line guys.  The company is screwing all of us and the TWU is helping them.  You must realize who your enemy is.  It is not Tulsa.

Thanks for the posts.  A little history lesson is in order here. In 95 the old guys voted themselves a 5 and 5 early out that was paid for by those left behind. The twu international allowed those left behind to be cannibalized by those leaving. Nothing new here. What Tulsa got from the deal was a 25% inhouse outsourcing via SRP classification.  Most in that classification will not sign cards and the majority of title 2 will not sign either even though they are in the class n craft. A handful of welders and machinists get it but few of them will sign..   Most of the  SRP/OSM's dont even realize that they are mechanics. They woke up one day as a building cleaner, parts washer or stock clerk and then the
next they were upgraded to an OSM.  Some didnt even know what a ratchet was or which end to put a socket on but by god they were getting 25 bucks an hour regardless!  If they are good looking enough they dont even have to open their tool box because some fool bloke will do their job for them. They love the twu because they couldnt get a gig like this anywhere in town and its all because of the twu.   Thats some of reality of what the twu and industrial unionism  has done to the profession  of the AMT.  Painting Tulsa with a broad stroke of the brush isnt going to do anything but divide the M+R in Tulsa that do get it from the line guys.  

 

[NYer]

No......Just an analogy that when one party basks in the majority, they need to realize it is not forever and can expect the same treatment when they are the minority. best analogy I can give with regards to OH and Line maintenance.
 the moral of this story is to treat others like you want to be treated...fairly.....Something the TWU never did. They favored OH in many a contract past. GEO pay is one area where most  line mechanics would have been satisfied. 

 
Fairness is a two way street and has many interpretations.

 

[NYer]

Maybe it gets voted in because even though they vote no several times the International makes no effort to make the deal better and lets year after year go by  and blocks any attempt to move the process forward. 
 
Just because YOU say their rates are subsidized by having less maintenance doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it. Once again, if low wages mean more mechanics then why doesn't Eagle have more more mechanics than AA? --You want to use Eagle as a comparator? If that's the case then you guys aren't really at the bottom of the industry in pay. Good for you!
 
You claim that younger workers vote YES to save their jobs but JFK and LGA are the most Junior stations in the system and they voted 96% NO. The yes vote slid by with the narrowest of margins and that was provided by the early out, which wold be the most senior workers who just wanted to get out.  --I claimed younger voters vote yes? Where was that?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
Thanks for the posts.  A little history lesson is in order here. In 95 the old guys voted themselves a 5 and 5 early out that was paid for by those left behind. The twu international allowed those left behind to be cannibalized by those leaving. Nothing new here. What Tulsa got from the deal was a 25% inhouse outsourcing via SRP classification.  Most in that classification will not sign cards and the majority of title 2 will not sign either even though they are in the class n craft. A handful of welders and machinists get it but few of them will sign..   Most of the  SRP/OSM's dont even realize that they are mechanics. They woke up one day as a building cleaner, parts washer or stock clerk and then the
next they were upgraded to an OSM.  Some didnt even know what a ratchet was or which end to put a socket on but by god they were getting 25 bucks an hour regardless!  If they are good looking enough they dont even have to open their tool box because some fool bloke will do their job for them. They love the twu because they couldnt get a gig like this anywhere in town and its all because of the twu.   Thats some of reality of what the twu and industrial unionism  has done to the profession  of the AMT.  Painting Tulsa with a broad stroke of the brush isnt going to do anything but divide the M+R in Tulsa that do get it from the line guys.  

I remember the 95 deal very well.  I also remember the A scalers voted for the 5 and 5 and that carried the vote.  After the fact when they found out they didn't get to retire when they wanted a lot of them didn't take it.  If the ones who decided not to take it had voted no the deal would have been voted down.  But here in Tulsa the TWU always catered to the A scalers no matter how bad it screwed the rest of us.  I must agree with your assessment of the OSM/SRP situation.  Many of them were working in the credit union and the typing pool before they became SRPs.  The TWU did this to kick us in the pills and try to show us anybody could do our job.  If you remember the first SRPs were the guards who voted to be SRPs and let the company hire a rent a cop firm.  The Title 2 guys have been told that if AMFA came in they would be laid off and they actually believe that.  These guys believe whatever the TWU tells them no matter what.     

 

[CMH_GSE]

 The Title 2 guys have been told that if AMFA came in they would be laid off and they actually believe that.  These guys believe whatever the TWU tells them no matter what.

I don't know that I would agree with that. What we do know is, looking at the US folks with the IAM allowing the aircraft mechs to bump auto mechs, there aren't many auto mechs left that started as auto. Most were previous aircraft, so there is a history there you can look at and decide for yourself, how lucky do you feel?

With WN and AMFA, there hasn't been any layoffs that I'm aware of that has happened, yet, but, their contract allows it.
Again, it comes down to, how lucky do you feel?
If their was another work group over and above the aircraft mechs that could bump them out, would it be an issue for them or not? My guess it would be, but that's just me.

 

[MetalMover]

MM I think you need to realize that the TWU International has done this, not Tulsa.  You must understand that the local puts the full court press on when there is a TA and sells it like it was the best thing since sliced bread.  Nobody in Tulsa is out to screw the line guys.  The company is screwing all of us and the TWU is helping them.  You must realize who your enemy is.  It is not Tulsa.

OldGuy, yes the Tulsa local has been the one to pull the strings because of "roll call."
But I have encountered quite a few mechanics from TUL on field trips to my station over many years.  And after conversing with them telling them about the cost of living in NY, I got "Well just move to Tulsa." I am sure there are more than a few of TUL folks who would not want the line to get a larger increase in pay than them.
Where the union failed was NOT trying to convince the TUL base that GEO would be fair to all....Instead they pitted the line against OH.
Not looking for an argument here, but that is how I have seen it.
having said that, it just wasn't TUL, but Woodward and Gilroy who joined the anti GEO pay crowd because they weren't getting what NY and CA were to get.

 

[scorpion 2]

OldGuy, yes the Tulsa local has been the one to pull the strings because of "roll call."
But I have encountered quite a few mechanics from TUL on field trips to my station over many years.  And after conversing with them telling them about the cost of living in NY, I got "Well just move to Tulsa." I am sure there are more than a few of TUL folks who would not want the line to get a larger increase in pay than them.
Where the union failed was NOT trying to convince the TUL base that GEO would be fair to all....Instead they pitted the line against OH.
Not looking for an argument here, but that is how I have seen it.
having said that, it just wasn't TUL, but Woodward and Gilroy who joined the anti GEO pay crowd because they weren't getting what NY and CA were to get.

How many airlines have GEO pay for their mechanics?  Should DFW get GEO pay?  Housing there is close to Tulsa but since they have line guys there do they get GEO pay? What about the base guys there?  Hell some guys from Tulsa go to Dallas to buy cars because they can get a better deal than in Tulsa.
 
When there is a roll call vote the Tulsa Pres Knows before the vote that it is coming and the international job awaits him when he plays ball. I think there should be GEO pay but not just because your a line guy. Tulsa has line mechanics should they get GEO pay?   How do you convince Tulsa AMT's of something they have no voice in? 

 

[MetalMover]

How many airlines have GEO pay for their mechanics?  Should DFW get GEO pay?  Housing there is close to Tulsa but since they have line guys there do they get GEO pay? What about the base guys there?  Hell some guys from Tulsa go to Dallas to buy cars because they can get a better deal than in Tulsa.
 
When there is a roll call vote the Tulsa Pres Knows before the vote that it is coming and the international job awaits him when he plays ball. I think there should be GEO pay but not just because your a line guy. Tulsa has line mechanics should they get GEO pay?   How do you convince Tulsa AMT's of something they have no voice in? 

GEO pay could be based on some economic factor for cost of living. All stations could get GEO pay, but some more than others depending on location.
Would calling it LINE differential make it more palatable? 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

OldGuy, yes the Tulsa local has been the one to pull the strings because of "roll call."
But I have encountered quite a few mechanics from TUL on field trips to my station over many years.  And after conversing with them telling them about the cost of living in NY, I got "Well just move to Tulsa." I am sure there are more than a few of TUL folks who would not want the line to get a larger increase in pay than them.
Where the union failed was NOT trying to convince the TUL base that GEO would be fair to all....Instead they pitted the line against OH.
Not looking for an argument here, but that is how I have seen it.
having said that, it just wasn't TUL, but Woodward and Gilroy who joined the anti GEO pay crowd because they weren't getting what NY and CA were to get.

In truth there has never been a problem with Tulsa and GEO pay and the local was for it.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 
 Tulsa has line mechanics should they get GEO pay?    

No.  Especially when you know that if something ever breaks they send overhaul guys over there to fix it.  Do they send guys from DWH to fix stuff in DFW?  I doubt it.

 

[Flying low]

No.  Especially when you know that if something ever breaks they send overhaul guys over there to fix it.  Do they send guys from DWH to fix stuff in DFW?  I doubt it.

As far as I recall, the OH mechanics that get sent to the terminal are because the plane they sent from the hanger broke (warranty work). If a line plane breaks the hanger mechanics don't go fix it. If the terminal can't fix it the plane is sent to the hangers and it becomes a drop in.