TWU - Fear Based Union Leadership and Intimidation

[NYer]

Once again, blame the division of OH and LM for bad cab's past. The TWU is famous for playing on the fears of OH crying job loss of they voted in BS contract after BS contract.
 
But keep ignoring this Nyer.

 
You're placing blame, not I. I'm merely showing how the majority have voted for the past CBA's, yet the breakdown was done by yourself....not I. If there are more mechanics in OH then they win the vote, what's wrong with that?
 
It seems they have a different value system and it's up to them to express that in their vote.

 

[MetalMover]

 
You're changing the subject again...can't you focus on one thing at a time?
 
Those contracts have passed because those in OH realize their positions are the first to go...a position that is virtually extinct in the rest of the legacy airline industry. And the Roll Call is a democratic vehicle whereby that Local is able to use a vote for each other their Members. You value democracy, so that's the embodiment of democracy, unless of course that democratic vote goes against you. In that case, you'd rather have a handful of Presidents make the decision for the majority. Can't have it both ways, Metal.

Roll Call democratic? What are you smoking? So ONE president gets to override the others simply because he has the most members?
So California should override the other 49 states because it has the largest population?
Wanna hear something funny, now that they are just about the minority compared to the line, the DON'T LIKE ROLL CALL ANYMORE.....Funny, eh?

 

[NYer]

Roll Call democratic? What are you smoking? So ONE president gets to override the others simply because he has the most members?
So California should override the other 49 states because it has the largest population?
Wanna hear something funny, now that they are just about the minority compared to the line, the DON;T LIKE ROLL CALL ANYMORE.....Funny, eh?

 
So those Members shouldn't have a voice? A Membership with thousands needs to bow down to the wishes of Locals with mere hundreds? That's not democratic. That President should be able to express the concerns of his Members with the number his Members represents.
 
Yes, California gets to override other states because they have more of a population. The national elections are based on the electoral votes which are set by population. If we ran the country as you want the TWU to be run then each State would count for one vote and we'd always have Republican Presidents since North Dakota has the same influence as California or New York.

 

[MetalMover]

 
You're placing blame, not I. I'm merely showing how the majority have voted for the past CBA's, yet the breakdown was done by yourself....not I. If there are more mechanics in OH then they win the vote, what's wrong with that?
 
It seems they have a different value system and it's up to them to express that in their vote.

Because the contract favored OH more over the line...this is how the TWU forced pro company contracts down the members' throats. GEO pay that OH didn't get was just one example.
So they have different values? Not exemplary of what a union should be, would you agree? I thought a union should represent all members equally, Would you agree?

 

[MetalMover]

 
So those Members shouldn't have a voice? A Membership with thousands needs to bow down to the wishes of Locals with mere hundreds? That's not democratic. That President should be able to express the concerns of his Members with the number his Members represents.
 
Yes, California gets to override other states because they have more of a population. The national elections are based on the electoral votes which are set by population. If we ran the country as you want the TWU to be run then each State would count for one vote and we'd always have Republican Presidents since North Dakota has the same influence as California or New York.

The PEOPLE of california have the choice,,,, Does the GOVERNOR or both senators have the override? ONE PERSON?  No he/she does not..

 

[NYer]

Because the contract favored OH more over the line...this is how the TWU forced pro company contracts down the members' throats. GEO pay that OH didn't get was just one example.
So they have different values? Not exemplary of what a union should be, would you agree? I thought a union should represent all members equally, Would you agree?

 
The Presidents negotiate it. The CBA's are passed in a democratic process and you value that.
 
And to fix that, what should be done?

 

[Rogallo]

Snarky:
A witty mannerism, personality, or behavior that is a combination of sarcasm and cynicism. Usually accepted as a complimentary term. Snark is sometimes mistaken for a snotty or arrogant attitude.

 

[NYer]

The PEOPLE of california have the choice,,,, Does the GOVERNOR or both senators have the override? ONE PERSON?  No he/she does not..

 
In your analogy, the people of California equates to the Members. Their vote is counted and so should the the Members be represented when it is an issue as important as a contract.
 
You make the argument about ONE PERSON, but at the same time you'd be in favor of one person with 500 Members and another person with 500 Members have the same influence over someone that represents 5000. That's not fair to the 5000.

 

[MetalMover]

 
In your analogy, the people of California equates to the Members. Their vote is counted and so should the the Members be represented when it is an issue as important as a contract.
 
You make the argument about ONE PERSON, but at the same time you'd be in favor of one person with 500 Members and another person with 500 Members have the same influence over someone that represents 5000. That's not fair to the 5000.

What goes around comes around! Kinda like the Republicans taking over both houses from the Democrats. Payback time!

 

[NYer]

What goes around comes around! Kinda like the Republicans taking over both houses from the Democrats. Payback time!

 
A Conservative, are you?

 

[MetalMover]

 
A Conservative, are you?

No......Just an analogy that when one party basks in the majority, they need to realize it is not forever and can expect the same treatment when they are the minority. best analogy I can give with regards to OH and Line maintenance.
 the moral of this story is to treat others like you want to be treated...fairly.....Something the TWU never did. They favored OH in many a contract past. GEO pay is one area where most  line mechanics would have been satisfied. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 GEO pay is one area where most  line mechanics would have been satisfied. 

And most in OH would be ok with. Thank Gilboy and Woodward for that. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

No......Just an analogy that when one party basks in the majority, they need to realize it is not forever and can expect the same treatment when they are the minority. best analogy I can give with regards to OH and Line maintenance.
 the moral of this story is to treat others like you want to be treated...fairly.....Something the TWU never did. They favored OH in many a contract past. GEO pay is one area where most  line mechanics would have been satisfied. 

MM I think you need to realize that the TWU International has done this, not Tulsa.  You must understand that the local puts the full court press on when there is a TA and sells it like it was the best thing since sliced bread.  Nobody in Tulsa is out to screw the line guys.  The company is screwing all of us and the TWU is helping them.  You must realize who your enemy is.  It is not Tulsa.

 

[Bob Owens]

 
See on the one hand, they're the lowest even though the negotiators are voted on by the Members. Those negotiators blame the International, but the Members vote for the CBA's. It's a vicious circle.
 
Then they go and compare themselves to other airlines pay rates like SWA or UPS, but if you tell them those pay rates are subsidized by having less mechanics, then they don't want the comparisons as much. It becomes a different topic. There is a reason the CBA's are voted in and that's because those Members that are the most likely to lose their positions are the ones that try to protect their jobs.
 
Even had a former Local President that believed it was better for AA to liquidate because there was a shortage of mechanics and whomever took over the AA routes would be forced to pay better rates. Nevermind that would put tens of thousands out of a job....Quite bizarre.

Maybe it gets voted in because even though they vote no several times the International makes no effort to make the deal better and lets year after year go by  and blocks any attempt to move the process forward. 
 
Just because YOU say their rates are subsidized by having less maintenance doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it. Once again, if low wages mean more mechanics then why doesn't Eagle have more more mechanics than AA? 
 
You claim that younger workers vote YES to save their jobs but JFK and LGA are the most Junior stations in the system and they voted 96% NO. The yes vote slid by with the narrowest of margins and that was provided by the early out, which wold be the most senior workers who just wanted to get out. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Maybe it gets voted in because even though they vote no several times the International makes no effort to make the deal better and lets year after year go by  and blocks any attempt to move the process forward. 
 
Just because YOU say their rates are subsidized by having less maintenance doesn't make it so, no matter how many times you repeat it. Once again, if low wages mean more mechanics then why doesn't Eagle have more more mechanics than AA? 
 
You claim that younger workers vote YES to save their jobs but JFK and LGA are the most Junior stations in the system and they voted 96% NO. The yes vote slid by with the narrowest of margins and that was provided by the early out, which wold be the most senior workers who just wanted to get out. 

I do know many here in Tulsa talk about voting no on the TA in 1989 only to have the international to come back with the exact same deal months later only with no back pay.  This is one reason why the first deal passes. I was pleasantly surprised that the 2010 TA failed but local 514 put the fear into a lot of people in 2012.  But Bob one thing that bothers me.........  Why are Title 2 mechanics included in the mechanic head count.  They do nothing on the acft so they should not be included in the numbers.