TWU Conference call

[strikeforce]

No surprise here! The me, me, me attitude just keeps coming out in you!

Do you blame me? When I see our puppet leadership, and yes this means Bob Owens, stand up and fight AA, and place that Big Rat by the Ivory Tower is the day that I start worrying about YOU!
It hasn't happened and I don't believe they have the nads to fight management, let alone place that Big Rat on AA's property. So, yes it's about me!

 

[aapitbull]

And so what is your answer? Stand by and let the blaming and bashing of Tulsa and Overhaul continue, and become supportive of the movement? You know me better than that without a doubt. Do you want me to accept the notion that Line AMT's are so much more superior to the overhaul AMT that the pie should now be cut into unequal pieces to compensate?

Isn't that just another division of the membership?

Isn't that what you use to talk about is a failure within the TWU. And so now you're all for divided and conquer negotiations and if anyone speaks against that it is Game/Set /Match? That's funny sheit coming from you Don.

When do you plan to file those cards for a the new union that will assist in removing majority rule unionism and level the playing field to favor the minority member? Being from Overhaul, you can expect me to be campaigning hard and organizing against this idea, so don't be too shcoked when you see that happen. I am ready for the excitement though, bring it on.

I have no interest in becoming involved in this line vs overhaul debate I listen to people on both sides of the issue and try to persuade them to put there differences asside and work together to remove the real problem which is now and always has been the TWU/AA. For whatever reason you have lost focus on the real issue and have become involved in this internet debate that is really only taking place on this board among a few of you. As proof of this I would direct you to your own words above, if and when we file the cards and assuming we get a election the true majority will have acted regardless of where the are currently stationed.

You accuse me of being part of this line vs overhaul division I am not, the majority of the people currently on the AMP steering committe are from overhaul not the line and AMP does not seek to put the minority in charge of anything we seek to build a majority accross all stations not just one we seek to share monies ideas and hardships equally. finally last we talked you where in favor of the last T/A which did nothing but divide us in many ways but most importantly it paid the line mechanics more than overhaul this would seem to place you squarely in favor of the divide you so vehemently deride here and accuse me of being part of. as far as your support of the TWU should we have a election this is strictly your business for the record I neither seek conflict with you nor do I fear it.

NO VOTE NO PEACE!!!!!!

 

[aapitbull]

AMP Organizational mainly coming form the Line.
Line bad mouthing Overhaul on a regular basis.
Majority at Overhaul.


What would anyone expect? Some appear to expect the overhaul AMT's to stand up and volunteer to take the shaft.
I think collectively they are smarter than that.

AMP was failed before it even got started. Nothing more than a threat as a hope to influence negotations.

It is interseting that you would say this, AMP was started in a Library room in Tulsa Ok by 12 guys all from Tul and myself the majority of the steering committee are stationed at Tul & AFW to this day this idea that this is a line thing is B.S. we still do not have full time organizers in L.A. and we went to ORD just last week to try to drum up support there and yes the people making the trip to ORD 2 from TUL 1 from DFW. The line vs overhaul debate exist right here I hear nothing about it in DFW I did hear about it in ORD thanks to this web page.

 

[TWU informer]

I have no interest in becoming involved in this line vs overhaul debate I listen to people on both sides of the issue and try to persuade them to put there differences asside and work together to remove the real problem which is now and always has been the TWU/AA. For whatever reason you have lost focus on the real issue and have become involved in this internet debate that is really only taking place on this board among a few of you. As proof of this I would direct you to your own words above, if and when we file the cards and assuming we get a election the true majority will have acted regardless of where the are currently stationed.

You accuse me of being part of this line vs overhaul division I am not, the majority of the people currently on the AMP steering committe are from overhaul not the line and AMP does not seek to put the minority in charge of anything we seek to build a majority accross all stations not just one we seek to share monies ideas and hardships equally. finally last we talked you where in favor of the last T/A which did nothing but divide us in many ways but most importantly it paid the line mechanics more than overhaul this would seem to place you squarely in favor of the divide you so vehemently deride here and accuse me of being part of. as far as your support of the TWU should we have a election this is strictly your business for the record I neither seek conflict with you nor do I fear it.

NO VOTE NO PEACE!!!!!!

I have read back through this thread to find where I accused YOU of anything, including being part of the live vs overhaul division, I find no such accusation. There was an exchange going on between myself and a poster other than you. Unless you take anything posted about AMP as being about you, which is highly likely, then I did not accuse YOU of anything. Regardless of how many organizers are in Tulsa vs the line, it appears you debate for AMP, you Chair the meetings for AMP, and everytime someone is discussion with another about AMP, you chime in as if an attack or questioning about AMP is an attack on you. ARE YOU AMP? I sometimes wonder, but know better than that.

Yes I voted for the T/A. But not to personally promote line vs overhaul division. We are still represented by the TWU and I was in the group being bought off to vote for the T/A. And as long as the TWU represent me, if I am lucky enough to be in the group being bought off I will vote YES again. I have VOTED NO on every contract this Piece of #### Union has negotiated until the most recent T/A. Each of the previous agreements have been ratified at the expense of some group within the TWU. I just simply felt it must be my turn to get mine brother. I am damn sure done playing the "save the profession" game with a group that has proven time and time again to shaft others for personal gain.

I offered no conflict with you either. You created this in your own mind as the apparent owner of the AMP movement. There is a difference between my views about the AMP movement and my views about you. But if you feel there can be no seperation of those two then so be it but that is coming from within you, not from me. Let me know when you get tired of trying to make a union out of group of self serving individualist that will never stick together for the good of others regardless of the name on the cover of the Union Consitution. I am giving notice that I have given up that fight. And even though I have more contempt for the TWU than anything else in my life, if I am lucky enough to be the group being bought off on the next T/A, I am voting yes again. You or anyone else can call me whatever you want, try to pigeon hole me into some agenda, or even threaten me if you wish. But you do know me well enough to know that will do nothing but make things worse, as I will never be manipulated by those TWU training acts for industrial union sympathizers. It is a travesty that there are brave individuals within this union that are outnumbered by selfish cowards. I guess you might think of the old cliche "If cant beat 'em, join 'em". I just hope when the dust settles and Bob and the others are finally done trying to save the profession, that I've still Got Mine Brother, even though I think it will only be temporary.

 

[strikeforce]

You hit the nail on the head "TWU Informer" about the dysfunctional group WE belong to. Throughout my career here at AA I've witnessed "Individualism" to it's truist form. Whether it be some union negotiator throwing the whole group down the river in order to save his job, or one station that holds the majority accepting a deal that divides the membership, the twu leadership has allowed this "Individualist" movement to fester out of control. You are witnessing the results of this dysfuctional leadership, not only on this forum, but within the work areas , as well.
So, it shouldn't surprise you that we sit here 8 years later after taking the worst raping in Labor's history and the TWU leadership doesn't have a gameplan in place to rally and organize it's membership to fight AA. We constantly talk about not "trusting" management, but I don't trust the TWU leadership as much as AA. Management and TWU leaders come from the same mold. Both will give US minimal information, and only information that you want to hear, as long as it doesn't interfare with their business or ruffle feathers at the top. The end result is Individualist. How can a member rally and care about the group, as a whole, when our brothers are knifing each other in the back, and the leadership just sits and watches, and condones this activity.
Real unions reign in their members when they stray away from unionism, mold and educate them, and hold each and every member accountable to "IT'S" standards and expectations. In those organizations you don't see members making side deals with management, or throwing other members down the river, or calling HR. HR in those organizations is the elected officials.
Speaking of elected officials.....the leaders in other labor organizations go into negotiations with "ONE" voice, and a positive game plan with the intention of gaining something for the membership. They try and "Win" against management. The members appreciate that willingness to "WIN" and it motivates the members to rally around their leaders, and they're not afraid to fight management because the leaders have their backs. Unfortunately that's not the case with TWU. The membership see's the weakness in our leadership. There is no fight, or willingness to fight. So, the members take it upon themselves to fight AA, and the leaders will condemn US for starting the fight because they're afraid of some court action against them. They're cowards! How can someone expect members to rally around cowards and idiots that throw their own members down the river! The end result......it's about ME! This is the TWU!
BTW.....the labor organizations I was talking about are the construction workers, electricians, plumbers, bricklayers. I would have thrown pilots into that group, but not AA pilots. They're a bunch of panzies too.

 

[TWU informer]

Bingo!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It is interseting that you would say this, AMP was started in a Library room in Tulsa Ok by 12 guys all from Tul and myself the majority of the steering committee are stationed at Tul & AFW to this day this idea that this is a line thing is B.S. we still do not have full time organizers in L.A. and we went to ORD just last week to try to drum up support there and yes the people making the trip to ORD 2 from TUL 1 from DFW. The line vs overhaul debate exist right here I hear nothing about it in DFW I did hear about it in ORD thanks to this web page.

Line VS Overhaul lives only in the minds of those who wish to believe such a thing exists and within the halls of the twu international.

 

[aapitbull]

I have read back through this thread to find where I accused YOU of anything, including being part of the live vs overhaul division, I find no such accusation. There was an exchange going on between myself and a poster other than you. Unless you take anything posted about AMP as being about you, which is highly likely, then I did not accuse YOU of anything. Regardless of how many organizers are in Tulsa vs the line, it appears you debate for AMP, you Chair the meetings for AMP, and everytime someone is discussion with another about AMP, you chime in as if an attack or questioning about AMP is an attack on you. ARE YOU AMP? I sometimes wonder, but know better than that.

Yes I voted for the T/A. But not to personally promote line vs overhaul division. We are still represented by the TWU and I was in the group being bought off to vote for the T/A. And as long as the TWU represent me, if I am lucky enough to be in the group being bought off I will vote YES again. I have VOTED NO on every contract this Piece of #### Union has negotiated until the most recent T/A. Each of the previous agreements have been ratified at the expense of some group within the TWU. I just simply felt it must be my turn to get mine brother. I am damn sure done playing the "save the profession" game with a group that has proven time and time again to shaft others for personal gain.

I offered no conflict with you either. You created this in your own mind as the apparent owner of the AMP movement. There is a difference between my views about the AMP movement and my views about you. But if you feel there can be no seperation of those two then so be it but that is coming from within you, not from me. Let me know when you get tired of trying to make a union out of group of self serving individualist that will never stick together for the good of others regardless of the name on the cover of the Union Consitution. I am giving notice that I have given up that fight. And even though I have more contempt for the TWU than anything else in my life, if I am lucky enough to be the group being bought off on the next T/A, I am voting yes again. You or anyone else can call me whatever you want, try to pigeon hole me into some agenda, or even threaten me if you wish. But you do know me well enough to know that will do nothing but make things worse, as I will never be manipulated by those TWU training acts for industrial union sympathizers. It is a travesty that there are brave individuals within this union that are outnumbered by selfish cowards. I guess you might think of the old cliche "If cant beat 'em, join 'em". I just hope when the dust settles and Bob and the others are finally done trying to save the profession, that I've still Got Mine Brother, even though I think it will only be temporary.

While I often speak for AMP I am certainly not AMP and yes a attack on AMP is a direct reflection on all of us who support the idea, to indicate that AMP is somehow supporting line vs overhaul debate or that it is involved with your "save the profession" conspiracy is a complete mischaracterization of all the views put forth by our committee. So yes I would say by making statments about AMP you are indicting not only myself but all those who work on behalf of the organization.

To the fact that you voted for the last POS T/A again a personal decision but thanks for admitting it was strictly a Ive got mine deal the irony here is you attack Bob and others for exactly that same attitude and it is not lost on me that you finally decide to vote for a T/A and the majority votes it down by a 2 to 1 margin this must make one scratch his head.

Being from Overhaul, you can expect me to be campaigning hard and organizing against this idea, so don't be too shcoked when you see that happen. I am ready for the excitement though, bring it on.

The above quote from your post appeared to me as you claiming you intended to campaign against AMP should the majority of members decide to sign cards and have a vote this would place you in direct conflict with myself and the majoirty should this come to pass, if I misinterpreted your intentions then I stand corrected.

Finally I see you post alot about what the "Save the Porfession" has cost you and in this post about a group that as proven time and time again to shaft others for personal gain I am at a loss as to who these people are and exactly who's been shafted and who has gained the only group that comes to mind is the TWU International yet your actions only strengthen their postion if it is not them then to whom do you refer.

NO VOTE NO PEACE !!!!!

 

[TWU informer]

First group that comes to mind is the A-Scaler who voted for the B-Scale and Retired Early or took $3 per hour over a 2 yr contract.

Second group voted for a bump up in pay raise steps in exchange for longer probation and no probation medical then later voted more step raises and allowed Flex Benefits.

Third group is the 88-91 Seniority group that voted for a contract exentsion that topped them out early tkaing up tp $5 per hour to others .65 cents.

Fourth group is Early Retirement group that voted for the SRP and Weight/Thrust Jr Mechanics and left with early out.

Fifth group took a big raise and divided the skill premium pay.

I could dig and find more but that should suffice. And that is far more than the TWU International benefiting. It is individuals voting for something that benefits them while shafting someone else.

You know about these groups, but apparently your memory is faltering.

Nice job of deflecting the claim that I accused you of being in favor of the line vs overhaul division. You have not lost your touch to cover your big "I" attitude and ego, but the fact still remains that it was an outright lie to claim that I accused you of that position.

 

[Birdman]

The compAAny/union knows you only have to please 51% of the members to pass a contract. With the exception of the 2010 contract I believe most have passed by the slimmest of margins with no complaints from the leadership of either side. BTW, what were the main issues with the failed T/A?

 

[odie01]

Take a break from the bashing and read this, we use liquid wrench to break flange bolts on the RB211 on a daily basis.


Side Effects Linked to Mechanics’ Environmental Hazards:
Acute myeloid leukemia
Chronic lymphocitic leukemia
Acute lymphoblastic leukemia
Non-Hodgkin lymphoma
Myelodysplastic syndrome (pre-leukemia)


Recent evidence suggests that mechanics with workplace exposure to benzene and other harmful chemicals may have a higher risk of leukemia. Leukemia is a malignant disease that affects the blood and bone marrow. Auto mechanics, aviation mechanics, industrial mechanics and break repair experts may have come into contact with work-related products known to cause chromosomal damage and cancer.

Exposure to Liquid Wrench Cited
in Leukemia Cases

Liquid Wrench is a blend of fast-acting solvents designed to instantly loosen mechanical parts from rust, corrosion, paint or varnish. The cleaning agent also contains benzene, a colorless and flammable liquid identified as a known carcinogen. Benzene use in gasoline is now limited due to harmful effects, but the agent is still included in industrial solvents like Liquid Wrench. The harmful chemical is immediately absorbed into the bloodstream when a person breathes in benzene-containing emissions.

OSHA has estimated that more than 32 million workers are exposed to 650,000 hazardous chemical products in over 3 million American workplaces. A 2004 study showed an association between leukemia and dwellings near petrol stations or repair garages, citing occupational exposure to hydrocarbons and benzene as the reason for illness. Additionally, a 2011 study demonstrates a link between benzene exposure and aneuploidy, the loss or gain of chromosomes.

If you or a loved one has been diagnosed with leukemia after occupational exposure to industrial cleansing solvents, you have rights. Contact us for a no-obligation legal consultation.

 

[aapitbull]

First group that comes to mind is the A-Scaler who voted for the B-Scale and Retired Early or took $3 per hour over a 2 yr contract.

Second group voted for a bump up in pay raise steps in exchange for longer probation and no probation medical then later voted more step raises and allowed Flex Benefits.

Third group is the 88-91 Seniority group that voted for a contract exentsion that topped them out early tkaing up tp $5 per hour to others .65 cents.

Fourth group is Early Retirement group that voted for the SRP and Weight/Thrust Jr Mechanics and left with early out.

Fifth group took a big raise and divided the skill premium pay.

I could dig and find more but that should suffice. And that is far more than the TWU International benefiting. It is individuals voting for something that benefits them while shafting someone else.

You know about these groups, but apparently your memory is faltering.

Nice job of deflecting the claim that I accused you of being in favor of the line vs overhaul division. You have not lost your touch to cover your big "I" attitude and ego, but the fact still remains that it was an outright lie to claim that I accused you of that position.

See this is exactly what confuses me you list all these groups who have screwed one another yet you call it the" Save the Profession' To me save the profession is anyone who has fought for the removal of the TWU from being our representative not the people who voted for the split the membership deals of the past. the" Ive Got Mine" group that you now claim is ok by you, so you see to me it is you who have taken the IF YOU CAN"T BEAT'EM JOIN'EM group not I as you like to say.

It would also be worth pointing out that my contemporaries and I did not vote but for the later of all that you have listed and I did not vote at all in 2001 because the outcome was certain as I recall more than 80% yes. The way I see this is that the majority of folks who support AMP have been consistent in our belief that the TWU is the problem and until they are replaced the same scenario will play out over and over again and we do not believe Ive Got Mine is ok even if it benefits only us.

To your backhanded compliment that I deflected your claim, I would say simply that you cannot accuse a organization of something and not have those accusations extend to said groups leadership. now I am not completely clear as to whom you believe the Save the Profession group is but I honestly believe that alot of your comments where pointed at AMP because as far as I know we are the only group out there fighting against the status quo I am very comfortable letting those reading decide who is spinning here.

Finally I have never stated that I do not a large ego I believe anyone who gets involved in trying to fight the company the union and the goverment at once had better have a big ego but I believe most would agree that in comparision to yours and a few others who were leaders in the AMFA drive mine would be considered fairly small.

Looks like 14 I's I hope thats not to many crap that makes 15
.

NO VOTE NO PEACE !!!!!

 

[strikeforce]

I reviewed constitutions for the IBEW, United Brotherhood of Carpenters, and United Association of Plumbers & Pipefitters, and these unions ELECT the intl president for a term of 5 years. Each Intl V.P. is Elected by the district locals.

Each of these organizations have internal controls, such as each member signs an Obligation Card and Oath to follow the constitution and local bylaws. Each local union can impose fines, suspend, or throw out any member that harms the union or other union members.

God help those members that harrass other members.

This is the way it should be! I gaurantee all the non-sense that happens at work would stop!

I recommend AMP incorporate many of these unions bylaws into their constitution.

The IBEW Intl Officers salaries increase the same percentage as negotiated for the membership. Nowhere did I see "decrease"
in pay. The officers obviously have a "Vested Interest" in getting the most for their membership.

These unions are night and day, as compared to the TWU, and they too are part of the AFL-CIO.

Just goes to show how "FLAWED" and dysfunctional the TWU structure is. Our constitution has layers of protections for the Intl officers from the membership. ALL about the dues!

These unions mold, educate and keep their members in line with what's expected as a professional and "union brother"!

These unions protect their skill and trade! Do you think these unions would stand by and watch all the outsourcing to non-licensed helpers or undercutting the union by their own members working for a non-union contractor, like we have working for Flight Check, Chicago Aircraft Maintenance, or Signature? I don't think so!

It's too bad these unions won't raid the TWU. If you have time please google these unions "constitutions". You will be amazed!

IBEWminutman.com
United Brotherhood of Carpenters
United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters

 

[aapitbull]

I reviewed constitutions for the IBEW, United Brotherhood of Carpenters, and United Association of Plumbers & Pipefitters, and these unions ELECT the intl president for a term of 5 years. Each Intl V.P. is Elected by the district locals.

Each of these organizations have internal controls, such as each member signs an Obligation Card and Oath to follow the constitution and local bylaws. Each local union can impose fines, suspend, or throw out any member that harms the union or other union members.

God help those members that harrass other members.

This is the way it should be! I gaurantee all the non-sense that happens at work would stop!

I recommend AMP incorporate many of these unions bylaws into their constitution.

The IBEW Intl Officers salaries increase the same percentage as negotiated for the membership. Nowhere did I see "decrease"
in pay. The officers obviously have a "Vested Interest" in getting the most for their membership.

These unions are night and day, as compared to the TWU, and they too are part of the AFL-CIO.

Just goes to show how "FLAWED" and dysfunctional the TWU structure is. Our constitution has layers of protections for the Intl officers from the membership. ALL about the dues!

These unions mold, educate and keep their members in line with what's expected as a professional and "union brother"!

These unions protect their skill and trade! Do you think these unions would stand by and watch all the outsourcing to non-licensed helpers or undercutting the union by their own members working for a non-union contractor, like we have working for Flight Check, Chicago Aircraft Maintenance, or Signature? I don't think so!

It's too bad these unions won't raid the TWU. If you have time please google these unions "constitutions". You will be amazed!

IBEWminutman.com
United Brotherhood of Carpenters
United Association of Plumbers and Pipefitters

These are examples of craft unions we strive to cover our craft as mechanics at AA in much the same way that said the first step is to get rid of the TWU by the way we missed you when we were in ORD what happened? Thanks to all who did attend it was a pleasure meeting you all !

 

[strikeforce]

While this forum bitches and moans.....I visted ContractorTalk.com and these contractors/union workers talk about.....

You shouldn't make your company money, your company should make you money...

I was talking with someone I know yesterday, just chit chatting about my schedule for the day. He made a comment, that I should have started my day earlier because "I should be making my company money." To which I replied, "No, my company should be making me money."

You see, you can't be everywhere and you can't do all things. This person I was speaking with is a car mechanic. He is an employee. I explained to him that when he is working he is making the company he works for money. I explained to him that if the manager of the business, presumably the owner, is properly managing the business, then the business is making the owner money. I explained that the owner need not process every order, that the sales people employed by the company can handle that. I explained that the owner need not wrench back in the shop that this was his job and he is making the owner money. I explained that it is the managers job to create the plan, recruit, hire, train and manage.

If the ground work is laid and the proper personell are working that plan, then the business is working for the owner, not the owner working for the business.

So what comment about my schedule did I make that prompted this conversation. He asked what time I started the day. I explained I dropped off my kids at 10:30 am and showed up to the job about 11 am. He seemed shocked I showed up "so late", in his words, which is what prompted the conversation. I explained to him that at 6 am I was making dozens of phone calls to ensure the materials, and dumpster was showing up on time. I also checked the weather to make sure we were safe to tear off the roof without risk of flooding the building. While I was taking care of my fatherly duties my workers were working my plan. They know what I expect of them, I need not be there to tell them every minute detail. If I need to remind them of every minute detail then I have failed as a manager and either my plan is a bad one or they are the wrong people to be working for the company.

The business should be able to make money with out the constant involvement of the business manager. The business should be making YOU money, not the other way around.

IF only our AA managers would do their job to plan, recruit, hire, train, and manage the business like this guy!!!!!!!!!