TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Raptorman49]

This mentality is the reason that my profession has been destroyed over the past 20-30 yrs. I use the word my profession as I do not feel that you share my passion for the career we chose! IMO you are truly Pathetic!!

Yep your right, I just want out of AA & Unions you can have them.

 

[Buck]

Yep your right, I just want out of AA & Unions you can have them.

Then why attempt to destroy it for those that have to stay?

Just leave!

 

[mevo]

Then why attempt to destroy it for those that have to stay?

Just leave!

Hey Buck, I sort of felt like raptor man too, I just needed out, but I REFUSED to screw my fellow mechanics. I quit in june after 22 years, I left for boeing, And though I had 22 years with AA, I am only 46, so I left with nothing but frozen pension. I voted NO EVERY time including the last best offer, that would have been better for me personally, because I knew I was leaving, but I just couldnt do it morally. If the Idiots at the twu happen to send me another pin number(they sent me 3 pin numbers in 2003) to vote on last last best best offer, I will vote no again. It was hard to leave after 22 years, but Im glad Im gone now. I will keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers and hope it works out for everyone. I hope for the sake of our profession yall vote no and vote out the twu. .
Mike

 

[Raptorman49]

Then why attempt to destroy it for those that have to stay?

Just leave!

I need this contract to get enough money to leave after that it's all yours Buck, I Know what the Line stations are planning their hoping that the Layoff happens before we get a contract then they will have the Majority & can get the raises while giving Overhaul nothing & encouraging more outsourcing, I know that the outsourcing is going to happen & Overhaul is going to shrink & that eventually the Line is going to out number Tulsa, there is nothing we can do about it but if were in a 6 year contract before the Layoff & they outsource then the Line out numbering Tulsa won't matter for 6 years at that point the Line stations will get what they have been wanting for years payback on Tulsa for keeping their pay so close to ours all these years, I don't blame them for wanting to be able to control the vote but I wan't to retire before it happens & this contract will be my bridge to leaving at that point it's all yours, I think it will pass but if it doesn't then guess the Line stations will probably get their payback now & 2,500 people will be laid off instead of taking an early out package & possibly some of us will be stuck here much longer than we want too.
We are all in different situations & have to vote what's in our best interest & that's exactly what i'm doing, before you tell me you don't like it & i'm being selfish I don't give a rat's A$$ yada yada yada I want out a hell of a lot more than I care what you think.
By the time this contract is over most of us will have Parachuted out of here, if your still here good luck being the minority to the Line. B)

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Dan,

You have some serious issues if you think that
the Line has a " diabolical plan" towards overhaul.
Did you proof read what you typed? Really?

 

[BigMac]

Say it aint so!

My VIN is also the same as last vote. (Weird)
Activation and confirmation #'s were different.
Also the PIN # is what you choose and can be made the same or different than last vote.
Although I disagree with this ignorant line vs overhaul bullsh!t.. This Tulsan voted No!
I don't give a flip if line wants more pay for their higher cost of living areas. I'm all for it. All this "get rid of OH" childish f'tard comments are foolish. Prove to me that you'll do better with this greedy AA company without OH. I've voted no on every election since hiring on. So don't wish that #### on me and my family. I don't see system protection..so what will happen if OH bumps linesmen out? Or vice-versa? Think before you speak. Like a damn daycare in here. People just spewing off stupid #### to get a rise. Well it worked now what?

 

[Bob Owens]

I hope you are joking and not considering voting yes on this P.O.S. Dan. The "I got mine." attitude has gotten us into this mess. The membership has been sold out time and time again due to catering to just enough numbers to swing the vote. If you do this you will be no better than the selfish pukes who voted yes on previous contracts and then flew the coop while the rest of us were forced to endure the crap.(5 and 5 in 95 for example). Local 514 is now putting out comparisons of past BK settlements with the other airlines. They leave out important info such as everyone else accruing 12 sick days while we accrue 5. There is much more but I won't list it all here. The point is that if they must leave out info like this and other things then their case for voting yes is not a good one. If you are planning on leaving anyway then why not vote no and then leave the rest of us with at least a chance to make a decent living. Sam Cirri is a FLEET SERVICE CLERK! They have already settled for their deal that leaves them with superior benefits than we are being offered. He also saved his own skin by making the deal to have fleet do OSM work in Tulsa. When he was campaigning I told everyone who would listen that when push came to shove then he would cover his own butt. Well, here we are. Add that to the theory that if this thing flies Hewett gets an international appointment and you have a full fledged conspiracy. Again. You know my position on this thing as well as anyone. I know you are a good man and you want to do the right thing. The short explanation is that Cirri, Hewett and the TWU have every reason to lie and Bob Owens has none. I also have no reason to lie to you or anyone else here. When it's all said and done you and I will have to live under this contract. TWU international officers don't.

They also leave out that we, mechanics, are at the bottom of the industry by a wide margin, Fleet is near the top. They leave out that when other carriers went into BK we had already lowered the bar outside of BK by giving the company 25%. There isnt anyone below us that the company can point to.

 

[Bob Owens]

UA, US, DL, NW and CO all used Ch 11 in the past to lower their costs. You had a CEO that many of you equated with the devil who had an inexplicable aversion to using Ch 11 to do the same thing. Eight months ago, the board finally overruled his objections to Ch 11, and now it's happening. Arpey (Devil) tried to get the work rule changes implemented for the past several years without success. Horton (now he's the Devil) is going to get what UA, DL, US, CO and NW all got.

You seem to forget that we gave 25% outside of BK and AA is not just looking for what they got, even though we had already given AA things that the others didnt get (Holidays, vacation, Sick Time etc) but they are looking for everything the others got and much much more. They arent looking to compete, they are looking to anihalate.

 

[Raptorman49]

Dan,

You have some serious issues if you think that
the Line has a " diabolical plan" towards overhaul.
Did you proof read what you typed? Really?

I definitely think the line wants some payback with overhaul it's no secret that the line has hated Tulsa forever & that's fine, they will get their chance but hopefully not until after i'm gone, ask Bob about the Line Presidents wanting separate contracts & splitting from Tulsa. B)

 

[Flying low]

Hey Buck, I sort of felt like raptor man too, I just needed out, but I REFUSED to screw my fellow mechanics. I quit in june after 22 years, I left for boeing, And though I had 22 years with AA, I am only 46, so I left with nothing but frozen pension. I voted NO EVERY time including the last best offer, that would have been better for me personally, because I knew I was leaving, but I just couldnt do it morally. If the Idiots at the twu happen to send me another pin number(they sent me 3 pin numbers in 2003) to vote on last last best best offer, I will vote no again. It was hard to leave after 22 years, but Im glad Im gone now. I will keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers and hope it works out for everyone. I hope for the sake of our profession yall vote no and vote out the twu. .
Mike

So your not employed by AA anymore. If by chance you get a chance to vote, and vote one way or the other then how how can we trust the results? If it happens to you, then how many other ex-employee's might get a ballot and vote. Maybe the pilots have a valid reason to want paper ballots...

 

[mevo]

So your not employed by AA anymore. If by chance you get a chance to vote, and vote one way or the other then how how can we trust the results? If it happens to you, then how many other ex-employee's might get a ballot and vote. Maybe the pilots have a valid reason to want paper ballots...

Yes, they have very good reason to want paper ballots. Do you trust the company or the union? I never did. Like I said, in the 2003 raping, I received 3 different pin numbers to vote with. If I do get a number, I will let you guys know
Mike

 

[FWAAA]

You seem to forget that we gave 25% outside of BK and AA is not just looking for what they got, even though we had already given AA things that the others didnt get (Holidays, vacation, Sick Time etc) but they are looking for everything the others got and much much more. They arent looking to compete, they are looking to anihalate.

No, I haven't forgotten that AA employees gave back some of their pay and benefits in 2003.

Problem is, AA did not reduce its labor costs by anywhere near the same percentage as other airlines that extracted multiple rounds of concessions in bankruptcy. Take UA, for example.

In 2002, UA had labor costs of $7.03 billion. In 2005, after UA's multiple rounds of concessions, UA's total labor costs were $4.03 billion, for a reduction of 43%. That reduction was more than TWICE the percentage of labor cost reduction experienced at AMR.

In 2002, AMR had total labor costs of $8.4 billion. In 2004, after the 2003 concessions had kicked in, AMR's total labor costs were $6.7 billion, for a labor cost reduction of almost exactly 20%. UA cut labor costs by 43% and AMR cut its labor costs by 20%.

You have spent years posting on this site your continued denial that other airline employees suffered far deeper concessions, job losses and cuts, despite occasional posts from UA, US, NW and DL employees that they suffered more than the typical AA employee.

You personally may have suffered a 25% reduction in 2003 but the reality is that AMR's labor costs came down by just 20% by 2004 and, thanks to the annual 1.5% increases, labor costs slowly climbed each year after that despite continued headcount reductions. Adding to AA's higher labor costs were the steadily increasing health care costs that added to AA's labor costs year after year.

UA's maintenance materials and outside repairs line item did go from $560 million in 2002 to a whopping $881 million in 2005, reflecting the much higher outsourcing of overhaul. Even taking that into account, the UA reduction (netting the labor cost cuts and the increased expense for M&R) was 39%, still almost twice the cost cuts at AMR. In addition to huge paycuts and benefit reductions for all UA employees, UA closed two overhaul bases while in bankruptcy, IND and OAK, and outsourced its heavy airframe overhaul. I doubt all the UA savings were attributed to IND and OAK, but that's one thing UA did that AA did not.

The other airlines performed similar liposuction to their labor costs while they were in Ch 11. Unfortunately, AA's labor cost efforts were more like a combination of Slim-Fast and Special K. And AA didn't shed the pounds quite like the others.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I definitely think the line wants some payback with overhaul it's no secret that the line has hated Tulsa forever & that's fine, they will get their chance but hopefully not until after i'm gone, ask Bob about the Line Presidents wanting separate contracts & splitting from Tulsa. B)

After seeing the attitudes in Tulsa (I've been here 27 years) I can't blame the line guys for wanting to separate. Did you forget that the 2010 offer gave the line $2.55 per hour while payin O/H a lump sum that amounted to about 1.5%? The line voted that one down too because it wasn't right. Sam Cirri, a fleet service clerk who's pay scale is at the top of the industry, has got you scared stupid and stupid is what stupid does. Whatever you do, don't accuse anyone else of selling out. You have sold out your entire profession with a yes vote. You are telling AA it is ok to pay us squat and deny us the benefits that other airlines enjoy. Heck we are denied benefits that fleet service and stores enjoy!!! It is wrong no matter which way you look. You stil have time to change your vote. Do it before it's too late Dan. I promise you will regret this if you vote yes and it passes. Me? I am stuck here until I am too old to get out of bed. 53 years old and college loans for three kids to pay off. That and social security when I am almost 68 (if it is still there). There are many more like me in the same situation. I would love to leave but the only company that hires old men seems to be AA. You will be forced to the hangar along with me and I hope you enjoy working afternoons for three months at a time and forced rotation. Lots more work rule changes that will destroy us. You have all the information right here. I challenge anyone to prove that I am not telling the truth. Sam Cirri and all other fleet service clerks have already grabbed their ankles and taken the deal. If he had any class at all he would not be telling you how to vote. What does he know about what we need as AMTs? I am not going to waste my time trying to convince you that you are making a mistake. Turn your back on your fellow AMTs, destroy our way of life, but don't try to justify your actions. I should have big out of Tulsa years ago. Too many short sighted people here. They are also easily scared and manipulated by the TWU. Bobby Gless, who never even graduated high school, tells us that we should vote yes. So he couldn't handle Algebra, but I am supposed to trust his judgement on a contract? I have spent way too much time arguing with you and I am going to stop now. You know deep down what the right thing to do is.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

No, I haven't forgotten that AA employees gave back some of their pay and benefits in 2003.

Problem is, AA did not reduce its labor costs by anywhere near the same percentage as other airlines that extracted multiple rounds of concessions in bankruptcy. Take UA, for example.

In 2002, UA had labor costs of $7.03 billion. In 2005, after UA's multiple rounds of concessions, UA's total labor costs were $4.03 billion, for a reduction of 43%. That reduction was more than TWICE the percentage of labor cost reduction experienced at AMR.

In 2002, AMR had total labor costs of $8.4 billion. In 2004, after the 2003 concessions had kicked in, AMR's total labor costs were $6.7 billion, for a labor cost reduction of almost exactly 20%. UA cut labor costs by 43% and AMR cut its labor costs by 20%.

You have spent years posting on this site your continued denial that other airline employees suffered far deeper concessions, job losses and cuts, despite occasional posts from UA, US, NW and DL employees that they suffered more than the typical AA employee.

You personally may have suffered a 25% reduction in 2003 but the reality is that AMR's labor costs came down by just 20% by 2004 and, thanks to the annual 1.5% increases, labor costs slowly climbed each year after that despite continued headcount reductions. Adding to AA's higher labor costs were the steadily increasing health care costs that added to AA's labor costs year after year.

UA's maintenance materials and outside repairs line item did go from $560 million in 2002 to a whopping $881 million in 2005, reflecting the much higher outsourcing of overhaul. Even taking that into account, the UA reduction (netting the labor cost cuts and the increased expense for M&R) was 39%, still almost twice the cost cuts at AMR. In addition to huge paycuts and benefit reductions for all UA employees, UA closed two overhaul bases while in bankruptcy, IND and OAK, and outsourced its heavy airframe overhaul. I doubt all the UA savings were attributed to IND and OAK, but that's one thing UA did that AA did not.

The other airlines performed similar liposuction to their labor costs while they were in Ch 11. Unfortunately, AA's labor cost efforts were more like a combination of Slim-Fast and Special K. And AA didn't shed the pounds quite like the others.

True story:
Friend of mine who is line mechanic at AA in Denver rides the same crew bus as United guys. The United guys were complaining about all the cuts they took in BK and how bad it was. Friend of mine traded contract books with them (after 2003) and the United guys didn't complain anymore! Does this look to you like they took a worse beating than AA did? They kept their benefits intact for the most part where the TWU handed ours away. Benefits are part of our COMPENSATION. Losing a week's vacation is losing a week's pay. Losing 5 holidays is losing another week's pay. Higher medical is more lost pay. Lack of job protection, more lost pay. I could go on, but you must get my drift. Bottom line...... The United guys preferred their contract to AA's. Their's has gotten much better since and ours is getting even worse. Labor costs too high???? I go back to what Bob said. All we know is what other guys sell their labor to their airlines for. Also AA closed MCI and is closing AFW. I believe that is TWO bases, but if you don't believe me ask Bobby Gless. I'm sure his math skills were severly tested by his G.E.D. exam. Yes our pay went up very little every year. AA offered 1.5% raises out of the goodness of their hearts while they took millions in bonuses. Also I notice there is no mention by you or AA on how much money they got from charging people for bags. The truth is AA is now turning a profit and will get a considerable advantage with these new cuts. That is not what BK is supposed to be about. It's about evening the playing field.

 

[Buck]

Hey Buck, I sort of felt like raptor man too, I just needed out, but I REFUSED to screw my fellow mechanics. I quit in june after 22 years, I left for boeing, And though I had 22 years with AA, I am only 46, so I left with nothing but frozen pension. I voted NO EVERY time including the last best offer, that would have been better for me personally, because I knew I was leaving, but I just couldnt do it morally. If the Idiots at the twu happen to send me another pin number(they sent me 3 pin numbers in 2003) to vote on last last best best offer, I will vote no again. It was hard to leave after 22 years, but Im glad Im gone now. I will keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers and hope it works out for everyone. I hope for the sake of our profession yall vote no and vote out the twu. .
Mike

Good for you Mike. I hope that all is going well for you.

Who is the union representative at Boeing maintenance?