TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Raptorman49]

Payback? All the line wants is what everyone else is getting. Not looking to screw anyone, just not wanting to get screwed. Are you saying that when you voted you were voting to screw the line? I hope not, I can understand (but not agree with) the mentality that $70k will go pretty far in Tulsa and I think thats how many down there look at it but I dont think that many in Tulsa felt that they wanted to screw the line.

Hopeful, is it really vengence you want or is the ability to provide for your family what you really desire?

Didn't mean it that way, I meant the line will want more than Tulsa which means we will get less , I need as much as possible to get out so don't want to make less ..... Sorry, after this contract you guys will get what you want, I think this will pass.

 

[Bob Owens]

Didn't mean it that way, I meant the line will want more than Tulsa which means we will get less , I need as much as possible to get out so don't want to make less ..... Sorry, after this contract you guys will get what you want, I think this will pass.

We didnt propose TULSA getting less, we said we all should should push for more. The Tulsa Reps were willing to accept less if they thought it may mean less job cuts and felt that since they were the majority we all should be willing to do the same regardless of the fact that where we live we cant work for what they say you guys are willing to work for.

What happened with the proposals was the line guys said cut the heads on the line as needed to meet the companys line savings objective but we need pay increases, Tulsa said the opposite and they were free to pursue that. The company rejected all of it and put out their own proposal and thats whats in front of you.

 

[strikeforce]

Payback? All the line wants is what everyone else is getting. Not looking to screw anyone, just not wanting to get screwed. Are you saying that when you voted you were voting to screw the line? I hope not, I can understand (but not agree with) the mentality that $70k will go pretty far in Tulsa and I think thats how many down there look at it but I dont think that many in Tulsa felt that they wanted to screw the line.

Hopeful, is it really vengence you want or is the ability to provide for your family what you really desire?

unfortunately Bob, it's going to take a Tulsa downsizing in order to negotiate for better pay and bennies. Tulsa is fighting the MRO business, and right now keeping jobs is much more important than what the line wants. Too bad AA's amt's will have to stay at the bottom of the industry in order to keep OH. Look around people......all the other unions agreed to outsource OH for better pay and bennies.....including the teamsters, iam and amfa. Only the TWU believes in saving jobs for concessions........so they think!

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, is Sam being truthful?

Well I think that may be how he interpreted what was said but his interpretation is wrong. You have to remember AFW is a base, and they sided with the line every time, do you think AFW feels that OH should be paid MRO wages? Dont give away things for stuff the company can take away anytime they want. The biggest kicker is if Job security is your primary reason for voting YES doesnt it strike you odd that you are voting to eliminate Article 42?

Does Sam really feel that all the cuts will be confined to AFW and the line with the elimination of Job Security?

Right now capacity is tight, they could not eliminate 4500 M&R jobs now if they wanted to, but over a six year period they might, and a yes vote gives them six years to do it. A no vote may give them the right to do it but not the ability. A yes vote gives them the right and time to be able to do it.

 

[1AA]

Look what I found on USA today.

You YES voters better read. We are all being taken for fools.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/story/2012-07-23/Airlines-make-record-226-billion-from-fees-report-finds/56370604/1

These airlines reported the most revenue last year from fees for services not included in airfares.

United: $5.2 billion

Delta: $2.5 billion

American: $2.1 billion

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Didn't mean it that way, I meant the line will want more than Tulsa which means we will get less , I need as much as possible to get out so don't want to make less ..... Sorry, after this contract you guys will get what you want, I think this will pass.

I hope you are joking and not considering voting yes on this P.O.S. Dan. The "I got mine." attitude has gotten us into this mess. The membership has been sold out time and time again due to catering to just enough numbers to swing the vote. If you do this you will be no better than the selfish pukes who voted yes on previous contracts and then flew the coop while the rest of us were forced to endure the crap.(5 and 5 in 95 for example). Local 514 is now putting out comparisons of past BK settlements with the other airlines. They leave out important info such as everyone else accruing 12 sick days while we accrue 5. There is much more but I won't list it all here. The point is that if they must leave out info like this and other things then their case for voting yes is not a good one. If you are planning on leaving anyway then why not vote no and then leave the rest of us with at least a chance to make a decent living. Sam Cirri is a FLEET SERVICE CLERK! They have already settled for their deal that leaves them with superior benefits than we are being offered. He also saved his own skin by making the deal to have fleet do OSM work in Tulsa. When he was campaigning I told everyone who would listen that when push came to shove then he would cover his own butt. Well, here we are. Add that to the theory that if this thing flies Hewett gets an international appointment and you have a full fledged conspiracy. Again. You know my position on this thing as well as anyone. I know you are a good man and you want to do the right thing. The short explanation is that Cirri, Hewett and the TWU have every reason to lie and Bob Owens has none. I also have no reason to lie to you or anyone else here. When it's all said and done you and I will have to live under this contract. TWU international officers don't.

 

[FWAAA]

Look what I found on USA today.

You YES voters better read. We are all being taken for fools.

http://travel.usatod...inds/56370604/1

These airlines reported the most revenue last year from fees for services not included in airfares.

United: $5.2 billion

Delta: $2.5 billion

American: $2.1 billion

No new information there, as AA reported $2.3 billion in ancillary revenue in 2009, $2.4 billion in 2010 and $2.7 billion in 2011 (the Ideaworks study numbers are a bit low for AA). That's the revenue from bag fees, change fees, frequent flyer miles sold to partners (like Ciit), etc.

 

[TWU informer]

No new information there, as AA reported $2.3 billion in ancillary revenue in 2009, $2.4 billion in 2010 and $2.7 billion in 2011 (the Ideaworks study numbers are a bit low for AA). That's the revenue from bag fees, change fees, frequent flyer miles sold to partners (like Ciit), etc.

And all of those changes were possible WITHOUT filing chapter 11?

Chapter 11 is addressing cost, these revenue enhancements just prove that management could have done better without raping the employees to death.

No that cost were not out of control due the pensions, but what the hell.

Just another blanket statement about ignorant management!

 

[FWAAA]

And all of those changes were possible WITHOUT filing chapter 11?

Chapter 11 is addressing cost, these revenue enhancements just prove that management could have done better without raping the employees to death.

Chapter 11 has very little (perhaps nothing) to do with revenue. Anyway, AA has brought in nearly two billion or more in ancillary revenue each year for the past decade. Nothing new here.

When UA reports its second quarter results, we're going to hear some more reasons why AA's second quarter revenue improved as much as it did. AA was very lucky that UA management caused a Spring of Hell in 2012.

No that cost were not out of control due the pensions, but what the hell.

Just another blanket statement about ignorant management!

AA's labor costs per ASM are the highest, by far, of any legacy airline. UA, US, DL, NW and CO all used Ch 11 in the past to lower their costs. You had a CEO that many of you equated with the devil who had an inexplicable aversion to using Ch 11 to do the same thing. Eight months ago, the board finally overruled his objections to Ch 11, and now it's happening. Arpey (Devil) tried to get the work rule changes implemented for the past several years without success. Horton (now he's the Devil) is going to get what UA, DL, US, CO and NW all got.

What solution to AA's high labor costs would you have preferred? Had you been tapped to be the CEO, what would you have done to get AA's labor costs inline with the competition? I assume that outsourcing much of TULE would not be on your list.

By the way, "raping the employees to death?" It's clear that neither you nor anyone close to you has ever suffered a real sexual assault. I hope your world remains that safe. For those of us whose world has not been so safe, that's highly offensive.

 

[TWU informer]

Chapter 11 has very little (perhaps nothing) to do with revenue. Anyway, AA has brought in nearly two billion or more in ancillary revenue each year for the past decade. Nothing new here.

When UA reports its second quarter results, we're going to hear some more reasons why AA's second quarter revenue improved as much as it did. AA was very lucky that UA management caused a Spring of Hell in 2012.


AA's labor costs per ASM are the highest, by far, of any legacy airline. UA, US, DL, NW and CO all used Ch 11 in the past to lower their costs. You had a CEO that many of you equated with the devil who had an inexplicable aversion to using Ch 11 to do the same thing. Eight months ago, the board finally overruled his objections to Ch 11, and now it's happening. Arpey (Devil) tried to get the work rule changes implemented for the past several years without success. Horton (now he's the Devil) is going to get what UA, DL, US, CO and NW all got.

What solution to AA's high labor costs would you have preferred? Had you been tapped to be the CEO, what would you have done to get AA's labor costs inline with the competition? I assume that outsourcing much of TULE would not be on your list.

By the way, "raping the employees to death?" It's clear that neither you nor anyone close to you has ever suffered a real sexual assault. I hope your world remains that safe. For those of us whose world has not been so safe, that's highly offensive.

Point taken on the term "raping" and it is a figure of speech that I have used for years, without regards to the literal meaning.
I will attempt to change my understanding of the nature of someone else's life in regards to that term.

I understand that cost per ASM's were higher at other carriers, and Carty was the idiot in 2003 and Arpey the devil.

I just feel that this bankrutpcy is being used to not match the competition in cost but to gain an unprecedented advantage that will only cause more harm to the industry not stabilize it. Almost criminal in the amount sought.

And the slap in the face on the equity stake and the unfair inssuance of that offer really makes me feel.....well sexually abused... or at least how I perceive that might make somone feel I should say.

Horton said all work groups would share equally, I dont see that happening. Not even close!

 

[1AA]

I received my ballot instructions in the mail today.
I activated my account and my VIN and PIN numbers is the same as the previous vote.
Just log in and use the same numbers. It should let you vote as of today.

I already voted. If you wonder how I voted I can not tell you but here is a hint.

NO!

 

[TWU informer]

I activated my account and my VIN and PIN numbers is the same as the previous vote.

Say it aint so!

 

[devil505]

1AA, on 23 July 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I activated my account and my VIN and PIN numbers is the same as the previous vote

Say it aint so!

Here we go again.


NO

 

[2ndGENAMT]

No its not fair but cirri said he can't get more & I intend to vote them out next year when they come up for re election.
The early out is going to be massive & Tulsa will be smaller than line afterwards but payback will have to wait for at least 6 years, line deserves payback on Tulsa no doubt about it but I want to leave before they get it ......lol

No I don't like it, I very much like Overhaul out numbering the Line stations & don't want that to change at least not till I leave in 6 years
Paybacks are a b$tch & I want no part of it ...... LOL
Voted no last time & stood in front of the base with a vote no sign but with the extra pay on this one & the few other enhancements I think I'm going to vote for this one, hopefully payback will have to wait 6 years. ;-)

This mentality is the reason that my profession has been destroyed over the past 20-30 yrs. I use the word my profession as I do not feel that you share my passion for the career we chose! IMO you are truly Pathetic!!

 

[1AA]

Say it aint so!

OK so is it a bad thing that we still can log in using the same vin and pin numbers?
I figure if some guys do not get their ballot instructions in the mail they can log in using the previous vin and pin. It should be no different than logging into your jetnet.
Hopefully most of us kept our pin and vin numbers in a safe place.