TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Bob Owens]

That's what I'm saying Tom everybodies situation is different, yours is very different than mine, this will be your last decent contract at AA after this one Tulsa will be a minority & they will get worse & worse, your screwed and that sucks but someone always wins & someone always loses in life, I'm gonna try to win one last time.

Whats decent about this contract? While United, USAIR and Delta all have smaller OH operations than they used to are their OH mechanics victimized by their line mechanics? Both UAL and Delta have called back a large amount of the guys they riffed, with many choosing not to come back. Why are you trying to say it will be different here? The Line has never attacked OH, the resentment comes from the fact that Tulsa's representatives feel that if they would rather accept less, because they can still live well in Tulsa, that everyone else should accept it as well. The Line reps never told the Tulsa to accept MRO wages, we just said if you guys are willing to accept that dont force it on us too. If the Line proposes a differential Tulsa opposes saying that if their guys dont get it nobody should. I would be OK with that if they would be willing to fight for it but thats not what they are saying, they are saying that they are willing to do without and we should be too. Just before the last LBO went out Jim Ream threw a sweetener for the line but Tulsa made it clear that they would not support bringing it back unless they got it too. They said it was a deal breaker. They were OK with everything else, OK with it not being there at all but were not OK with the line getting something and not Tulsa. The next morning the company added the base and out it went for a vote. We called for a vote but the International refused to allow it to go to a vote saying that Jim Little had already said that it was going to the membership anyway.

How do you figure this as a win? Because you didnt end up as bad off as the guys in the high cost cities?

 

[dfw gen]

Raptor you are putting way to much thought into this. If you think the line hates overhaul you are sorely mistaken. I was at afw for 17 years after doing both o/h and line I will tell you the line is definetly a challenge. You have to know 5 fleets with 4 more to come. Shift work days off log books the feds in a regular basis. Definetly have to be a lot more aware of what's going on, but hearing an overwhelming sense if hating tulsa? Naw frustration with aa adsouloutly!

 

[Raptorman49]

Whats decent about this contract? While United, USAIR and Delta all have smaller OH operations than they used to are their OH mechanics victimized by their line mechanics? Both UAL and Delta have called back a lrge amount of the guys they riffed, with many choosing not to come back. Why are you trying to say it will be different here? The Line has never attacked OH, the resentment comes from the fact that Tulsa's representatives feel that if they would rather accept less, because they can still live well in Tulsa, that everyone else should accept it as well. The Line reps never told the Tulsa to accept MRO wages, we just said if you guys are willing to accept that dont force it on us too. If the Line proposes a differential Tulsa opposes saying that if their guys dont get it nobody should. I would be OK with that if they would be willing to fight for it but thats not what they are saying, they are saying that they are willing to do without and we should be too. Just before the last LBO went out Jim Ream threw a sweetener for the line but Tulsa made it clear that they would not support bringing it back unless they got it too. They said it was a deal breaker. They were OK with everything else, OK with it not being there at all but were not OK with the line getting something and not Tulsa. The next morning the company added the base and out it went for a vote. We called for a vote but the International refused to allow it to go to a vote saying that Jim Little had already said that it was going to the membership anyway.

How do you figure this as a win? Because you didnt end up as bad off as the guys in the high cost cities?

Bob as you already know a little money goes a long way here in Tulsa, we have big houses on Lots of acres & lots of toys, many of us can retire at 55 because of the low cost of living, yeah that sucks for guys in New York .....I get it but life isn't fair, hell Horton gets 300 million, no sir life isn't fair but it is what it is, that's how I win, I get one last contract that will give me enough to leave this Industry & enjoy life away from the turmoil & stress

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob as you already know a little money goes a long way here in Tulsa, we have big houses on Lots of acres & lots of toys, many of us can retire at 55 because of the low cost of living, yeah that sucks for guys in New York .....I get it but life isn't fair, hell Horton gets 300 million, no sir life isn't fair but it is what it is, that's how I win, I get one last contract that will give me enough to leave this Industry & enjoy life away from the turmoil & stress

Sad.

 

[Raptorman49]

Raptor you are putting way to much thought into this. If you think the line hates overhaul you are sorely mistaken. I was at afw for 17 years after doing both o/h and line I will tell you the line is definetly a challenge. You have to know 5 fleets with 4 more to come. Shift work days off log books the feds in a regular basis. Definetly have to be a lot more aware of what's going on, but hearing an overwhelming sense if hating tulsa? Naw frustration with aa adsouloutly!

There is no doubt the line doesn't like Tulsa & that's fine, were not here for line to love us.

 

[Hopeful]

Bob as you already know a little money goes a long way here in Tulsa, we have big houses on Lots of acres & lots of toys, many of us can retire at 55 because of the low cost of living, yeah that sucks for guys in New York .....I get it but life isn't fair, hell Horton gets 300 million, no sir life isn't fair but it is what it is, that's how I win, I get one last contract that will give me enough to leave this Industry & enjoy life away from the turmoil & stress

Good for you on winning...
And how the rest of us win is ousting the TWU!

You made quite a splash on this forum, Raptorman. Your existence on this forum was discovered not too long ago and personally I had a difficult time trying to discern which side of the fence you sat on.

Now it is as clear as daylight that you are single handedly trying to ensure a yes vote on the lastest TA by not just creating a greater division between the line vs oh but rather dividing the yes votes vs the no votes in TUL.

What you appear to be doing is preaching and spreading fear that the line guys are taking over and are going to "finally stick it to the OH guys" because the line might ot might not be the majority after the huge layoffs occur.

It seems you are trying to pursuade the probably NO votes in TUL into becoming YES votes simply to counter the line guys.
If I am wrong in my assumption, please correct me!

 

[Bob Owens]

There is no doubt the line doesn't like Tulsa & that's fine, were not here for line to love us.

Not that I'm agreeing that you truly represent Tulsa, but what are you here for? To give the company everything they want and gain satisfaction from the fact that you didnt end up as bad off as guys in the high cost cities? Thats a pretty pathetic way to approach life.
I hope you arent bringing kids into this world.

 

[comatose]

There is no doubt the line doesn't like Tulsa & that's fine, were not here for line to love us.

Well having worked both TUL, AFW, a class I and a class II station, where do you get this crap?

There is no doubt that opinions like yours are nothing but fire starters. Troll with something else.

 

[Raptorman49]

Sad.

Yes sir it is sad, I don't trust the line stations or Tulsa or the TWU or AA , I'm surrounded by people & organizations that I absolutely don't trust, I want away from all this as soon as possible, one last contract & I'm gone at 56 & you guys can continue with the Turmoil that I'm sure folks in New York are use too, I know New York is a tough life on many levels.
Traffic, crime, crowded, pollution etc. I could never live there ..... Way to much stress.

 

[Raptorman49]

Good for you on winning...
And how the rest of us win is ousting the TWU!

You made quite a splash on this forum, Raptorman. Your existence on this forum was discovered not too long ago and personally I had a difficult time trying to discern which side of the fence you sat on.

Now it is as clear as daylight that you are single handedly trying to ensure a yes vote on the lastest TA by not just creating a greater division between the line vs oh but rather dividing the yes votes vs the no votes in TUL.

What you appear to be doing is preaching and spreading fear that the line guys are taking over and are going to "finally stick it to the OH guys" because the line might ot might not be the majority after the huge layoffs occur.

It seems you are trying to pursuade the probably NO votes in TUL into becoming YES votes simply to counter the line guys.
If I am wrong in my assumption, please correct me!

That's pretty much correct because I now believe the line is out to get Tulsa for the past & I believe that eventually they will get Tulsa back but hopefully not till I'm gone.
I know the plan & its a good plan but I don't like it.

 

[TWU informer]

That's pretty much correct because I now believe the line is out to get Tulsa for the past & I believe that eventually they will get Tulsa back but hopefully not till I'm gone.
I know the plan & its a good plan but I don't like it.

Try looking at this overhaul reduction issue from a position of reality. The Line AMT is not your enemy.

What is going to take overhaul down the tubes, is low Tulsa Base productivity, lack of Tulsa Base accountability, inadequate Tulsa Base management, worthless Tulsa Base union leadership, and workers at third party vendors that will do your job for a helluva alot less and a helluva lot faster than you are.

You are willing to hold down the line pay, You are willing to keep us from getting a craft Union, You are willing to sell us all out using some twisted logic of divide and destroy that a Fleet Service clerk offered to you yesterday.

And gullible you, not only believes that but preaches it too!

Guess what, there are people just like you at those third party vendors, that will never join a union, will do your job for alot less, and will screw you too, and only care about themsleves. That is your real enemy and should be your largest concern. That is the reason overhaul will be reduced. It has nothing to with Bob Owens or any line AMT.

Keep cowering and all of our children and grand children will have to be supported for life instead of just to adulthood, because we will destroy their ability to earn a decent wage too.

 

[Hopeful]

That's pretty much correct because I now believe the line is out to get Tulsa for the past & I believe that eventually they will get Tulsa back but hopefully not till I'm gone.
I know the plan & its a good plan but I don't like it.

In all my years here, all us line people ever wanted was either GEO pay or LINE pay. I don't recall anyone ever saying that Tulsa should take pay cuts and changes to work rules or outsource more just so we could get more.

And for your information, it's not the LINE guys who are looking for draconian changes to the OH operation.

 

[Hopeful]

Try looking at this overhaul reduction issue from a position of reality. The Line AMT is not your enemy.

What is going to take overhaul down the tubes, is low Tulsa Base productivity, lack of Tulsa Base accountability, inadequate Tulsa Base management, worthless Tulsa Base union leadership, and workers at third party vendors that will do your job for a helluva alot less and a helluva lot faster than you are.

You are willing to hold down the line pay, You are willing to keep us from getting a craft Union, You are willing to sell us all out using some twisted logic of divide and destroy that a Fleet Service clerk offered to you yesterday.

And gullible you, not only believes that but preaches it too!

Guess what, there are people just like you at those third party vendors, that will never join a union, will do your job for alot less, and will screw you too, and only care about themsleves. That is your real enemy and should be your largest concern. That is the reason overhaul will be reduced. It has nothing to with Bob Owens or any line AMT.

Keep cowering and all of our children and grand children will have to be supported for life instead of just to adulthood, because we will destroy their ability to earn a decent wage too.

It sounds to me as if Raptorman has been converted into believing that what's on the table is at the bequest of the line presidents.
The company has made it clear about outsourcing. I don;t see the line guys getting anymore of a deal than the OH guys are.

 

[Kev3188]

I'm throwing the bs card! You have no idea what other airlines spend to do the same work aa does or did in house.

It's honestly not too hard to find the data for each carrier. It's all publicly available.

 

[Flying low]

Raptorman49, What really changed your mind from a no to a yes? After all, you were going to stand on the corner and hold up a vote no sign with the old guy. Was it the old guy telling you don't come to the corner with a teamsters sign/button?