TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[FWAAA]

well turns out Bob was correct again AA does plan on making Billions a year.......

Bob's $3 billion a year profit predictions are pure fantasy.

Bella Goren was talking about the cost savings target of $2 billion a year. Re-read the two paragraphs ending with the mention of the $2 billion target. Corporate executives don't make profit predictions.

 

[Buster CRC]

Bob's $3 billion a year profit predictions are pure fantasy.

Bella Goren was talking about the cost savings target of $2 billion a year. Re-read the two paragraphs ending with the mention of the $2 billion target. Corporate executives don't make profit predictions.

Ok do the math. bragging on 98 million profit in a quarter not implementing most "cost saving measures" thats 392 million a year profit now throw in 2 Billion more in cost saving thats 2,392,000,000.00 a year.....

 

[FWAAA]

Ok do the math. bragging on 98 million profit in a quarter not implementing most "cost saving measures" thats 392 million a year profit now throw in 2 Billion more in cost saving thats 2,392,000,000.00 a year.....

That's what the outcome might be if airlines had four second quarters each year. Unfortunately, there's the typically slow first and fourth quarters as well as the busier (and more profitable) second and third quarters.

For the first six months of 2012, AA has lost $270 million (not counting the reorg expenses or special items), so it's on track to lose half a billion dollars this year. Add in $2 billion of cost savings and AA might earn $1.5 billion of net income in a whole year. That's in the same neighborhood as DL or UA.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob's $3 billion a year profit predictions are pure fantasy.

Bella Goren was talking about the cost savings target of $2 billion a year. Re-read the two paragraphs ending with the mention of the $2 billion target. Corporate executives don't make profit predictions.

The lead lawyer for the company made the statement that the unions would be getting back most of what they gave up, over $360 million a year between the three unions from Profit Sharing. He said it not me. It also slipped out on more than one occasion that they expected an EBITDAR in excess of 17%.


If the unions are 80% of the worforce and are getting $360 million in profit sharing then that $360 million is roughly 80% of the profit sharing total, and if the profit sharing is 15% of total profits then the total profits come out to roughly $2.88billion. So roughly $3 billion.

So its not "Bobs prediction" thats what THEIR lawyer said in court, I was there, where you?

Why is AA being so secretive? UAL laid it all out, they didnt hide it from their Unions. UAL was actually more profitable than what they projected.

 

[Bob Owens]

For the first six months of 2012, AA has lost $270 million (not counting the reorg expenses or special items), so it's on track to lose half a billion dollars this year.

Now there's fiction, losses when revenue soars and costs plummett, accellerate that depreciation, prepay some contracts, dump a couple of hundred million into legal fees, find a few other "Special items", sure its all legal but then again they write the rules but that doesnt change the fact that its fiction. The only difference between their, (what is it $10 billion since 2001?) loss, and our loss of $150,000 per worker is that their's is legally recognized, once again, they write the rules. Tell us again how much they "lost" since 2003 when during that same period of time they paid down $10 billion in debt, put their name on any arena or theater they could find, ordered 500 new airplanes etc. So you claim they are set to lose half a billion this year, where will that half a billion go this time-lost "Good Will"??? In 2003 they lost nearly $1 billion in "Good Will" an intangible assett.
in·tan·gi·ble
adj.
1. Incapable of being perceived by the senses.
2. Incapable of being realized or defined.
3. Incorporeal.

 

[FWAAA]

The lead lawyer for the company made the statement that the unions would be getting back most of what they gave up, over $360 million a year between the three unions. He said it not me. It also slipped out on more than one occasion that they expected an EBITDAR in excess of 17%.


If the unions are 80% of the worforce and are getting $360 million in profit sharing then that $360 million is roughly 80% of the profit sharing total, and if the profit sharing is 15% of total profits then the total profits come out to roughly $2.88billion. So roughly $3 billion.

Like I said before: Pure fantasy. I don't doubt that a lawyer said what you heard; but you don't take a company that loses a billion dollars per year, cut two billion dollars in costs, and suddenly earn $3 billon a year. Not even Peter Griffin would come up with that. At best, you get a company with one billion dollars of profit, and on $25 billion of revenue, one billion dollars is not out of line.

Your posts reveal that you may not know what EBITDAR is. If AA's EBITDAR target is 17%, that would be earnings of $4.25 billion before subtracting Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and amortization and Rents/Restructuring expenses. Subtract all those, and you get $1.0 to $1.5 billion of net income.

So its not "Bobs prediction" thats what THEIR lawyer said in court, I was there, where you?

Why is AA being so secretive? UAL laid it all out, they didnt hide it from their Unions. UAL was actually more profitable than what they projected.

The $3 billion is not AA's prediction - it is yours. And it's nonsense. AA's lawyer didn't say anything about $3 billion of profit - you did.

By the way - didn't AA lower the profit sharing component in the offers to pilots and mechanics to a mere 5%? I think the "me-too" provision lowered it for fleet down to 5% as well.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I am no liar!

Never said you were Dave. Just said I must have been thinking of another pres. conference. We used to have them every year after all right?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Thanks Tom that's a great attitude to have, I respect that & I also respect that you are not afraid to stand up for what you care about regardless of the risks like standing in front of the base with a vote No sign realizing that some angry worker could throw a bottle out the window & possibly kill you, that takes guts .... your not just doing a lot of talking from behind a keyboard your a Man of action & that's quite rare, I'm assuming your out hustling AMFA cards everyday as well since you very much like AMFA, I too try to be a Man of action when it comes to things I care about, as the saying goes talk is cheap but Action says it all !

Gotta admit I am not a huge fan of AMFA, but it seems like the better option right now.

 

[Bob Owens]

The $3 billion is not AA's prediction - it is yours. And it's nonsense. AA's lawyer didn't say anything about $3 billion of profit - you did.

No it's AA's prediction based upon what their Lawyer predicted we would get each year from profit sharing.
You are the guy who claims to have the sheepskin, you do the math.You already said you dont doubt that the lawyer said it, well where do you think he got the numbers?
If a company says that profit sharing will come out to over $360 million, for 80% of the workers and Profit sharing is 15% of total profits then how much would the total profits be? I realize there are variables but for this problem assume that everyone gets an equal amount.

 

[Raptorman49]

Gotta admit I am not a huge fan of AMFA, but it seems like the better option right now.

Cool you have moderation & realistic expectations, always a good thing.

 

[American Workers Union]

AA got the outsourcing and the pension and a medical that takes all of the raises.
NO Vote for me.
The top management of this company are greedy bastards.

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]


Realityck, why do you support the TWU?



As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.


Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.



Tex-Mech - No you didn't...good story you made up. Enjoyed it


DFW Gen - No you didn't...good story you made up. Enjoyed it

you funny realityck.....there goes any creability you had! not that you had any to begin with.



When we struck, since I was a machinist prior to working at American, I got a job the next day as a QC inspector for $4.25 per hr (same salary I got working as a Licensed A&P at AA). I picketed every day after my work shift because I had a family and 2 kids to feed.

From the sound of your comments, I doubt either one of you participated in the strike, did you? You're both tough guys right?
Was it possible you were still in kindergarten or grade school at the time?

Now tell the truth, even if it hurts - we promise not to laugh.

[/background]

 

[Buck]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]


Realityck, why do you support the TWU?



As an AMT, I’ve been through the struggle brought on by Deregulation that was introduced in 1978, whose full effect didn’t hit the airline unions until the early 1980’s. Although some members, as they do now, claimed it was all a farce and we should just strike and shut the company down, in 1983 the TWU’s membership in a +75% ratification vote, decided to deal realistically with the issues that threatened us all.


Under these adverse conditions even though every union struggled to protect their respective members, most carriers were eventually forced to file for Bankruptcy. Some several times, and some went out of business altogether because their managements’ couldn’t adapt and compete in the new deregulated environment.

There were no easy answers then, and there aren’t any now.

I’ve seen and heard the AMFA rallying cry for most of my career at American. I’d even spoken to Delle on one of his visits to meet with AA AMT’s. I was not impressed with his grasp of the problems we faced, nor how he intended to deal with them. His advice to me then was “Management will recognize that we’re professionals, and address our concerns”. That sounded great, but my experience with management up to that point convinced me he was pretty naïve in his understanding of how to deal with the company.

Subsequent actions by AMFA like the NWA strike strategy that led to the loss of thousands of AMT jobs by blindly walking into a strike they couldn’t win, convinced me I should stay with and support the TWU. There’s no doubt in my mind they were set up by a calculating management, but it was also a classic case where AMFA’s (Delle’s) rallying cry of “we never gave concessions” forced him into a corner that he couldn’t get out of.

I firmly believe that the 2010 T/A which was recommended by the TWU, while not all we would have liked it to be, would have addressed some of the issues we needed corrected, and positioned us to fight another day. I also have a problem with the “just vote no” mentality that many of the AMFA supporters/sympathizers have. It reminds me of Delle’s naïve approach in expecting some miracle to save us from ourselves should the T/A fail, the Judge revoke the contracts, and leave us hanging on the end of a rope while the NMB muddles through some unknown exercise that has failed to produce anything of value to us yet.

Do I believe everything this or any other union does is above reproach, no. But neither do I believe jumping off a cliff just to prove you can, will do anything to enhance our careers and provide for the security of our families.

BTW, I walked the TWU picket line on the 21day strike in 69, and have been suspended for “alleged” job actions, so I have no problem with confrontations. What I do have a problem with is blindly following the pied pipers in our midst who preach the just say no theme without a clue as to how that’s going to drastically change the situation we’ve placed ourselves in by turning down the 2010 T/A.



Tex-Mech - No you didn't...good story you made up. Enjoyed it


DFW Gen - No you didn't...good story you made up. Enjoyed it

you funny realityck.....there goes any creability you had! not that you had any to begin with.



When we struck, since I was a machinist prior to working at American, I got a job the next day as a QC inspector for $4.25 per hr (same salary I got working as a Licensed A&P at AA). I picketed every day after my work shift because I had a family and 2 kids to feed.

From the sound of your comments, I doubt either one of you participated in the strike, did you? You're both tough guys right?
Was it possible you were still in kindergarten or grade school at the time?

Now tell the truth, even if it hurts - we promise not to laugh.

[/background]

So what did you get out of that strike?

 

[Realityck]

[background=white]
Thought some of you older AMTs might appreciate this[/background]
[background=white]
NEW YORK—American Airlines is celebrating the seven-decade service of a New York mechanic who turns 87 next month and has no plans to retire.[/background]
[background=white]
Azriel "Al" Blackman was 16 when he started as an apprentice mechanic in July of 1942, long before bag fees, airport security or even the introduction of the jet engine. He was paid 50 cents an hour.[/background][background=white]
Seventy years later, he still reports to work every day at American's aircraft maintenance hangar at John F. Kennedy International Airport.[/background]
[background=white]
"I don't consider it work, really," Blackman said Wednesday. "If you like what you do, it's not work."[/background][background=white]
The Fort Worth, Texas-based airline invited Blackman to ride on a vintage DC-3 to mark his anniversary with the company.[/background]
[background=white]
The aircraft, the Flagship Detroit, is owned by a nonprofit foundation that has restored it to a historically accurate approximation of what it looked like when it was in passenger service for American from 1937 to 1947.[/background][background=white]
Its 21 seats are smaller than 21st-century airline seats, and there are no overhead bins.[/background][background=white]
Blackman sat in the cockpit as the plane swung around to lower Manhattan, up the Hudson River to the George Washington Bridge and back.[/background]
[background=white]
Back on the ground, he said modern jet engines are more reliable than vintage engines like the DC-3's.[/background][background=white]
"These leak oil all over the place," Blackman said. "When they're not leaking oil, it's not good. They're not running well."[/background]
[background=white]
Mustachioed and dapper in his lime-green reflective vest with "crew chief" on the back, Blackman said the industry has changed over the years.[/background]
[background=white]
"Today it's all money, banking, CPAs, computers," he said. "But I've yet to see a computer go out and fix anything that we broke.[/background]
[background=white]
He shook his head when asked what advice he'd give to someone starting out in his line of work now.[/background][background=white]
"Most of the big carriers have folded because they couldn't compete," Blackman said. "And those that are still in business outsource a good part of their work. It's tough to make a living in the business today."[/background][background=white]
Blackman started working for American Export Airlines, which later merged into American. He was drafted into the Army and served two years in Korea, then returned to his mechanic's job in New York.[/background]
[background=white]
He and his wife, Delores, had two children; she died last year.[/background][background=white]
"My dear wife, when she was alive, she used to tell me, `Go to work, bum,'" he said. "`Go play with your friends.'"[/background]
​

 

[Buck]

Why wouldn't the younger mechanics enjoy your post?

Are you that hateful?

Plus you are out of bounds, Raptorman you need to scold him.