TWU and the Company reached a Tentative Agreement

[Overspeed]

As new Aricraft Arrive and your scope clause allows 35% outsource there will not be anyone left in overhaul to make that pay. This is the same trap the 28% outsource cap had a Northwest. You witnessed that event happen, and to this day you blame AMFA for it, and now you advocate voting yes on the same idea and same plan except it is a 7% worse on the cap of outsourcing work.There is NO SCOPE in %'s with new aricraft coming. Scope must in the form of Job Security protection in hard headcount numbers. Why are you all blind to what is about to happen? Your tulsa base headcount is going to get decimated over the 3-4 years and you have already watched the exact same thing happen at another airline.

In essence you have allowed outsource of massive amounts of work in exchange for pay that might be a raise in 36 months which completely in the hands of other carriers, one of which might not even exist in 36 months (USAir), which is what you are always bashing AMFA about.

Tell me exaclty how many heads will be in Tulsa making that Industry Averaged wage rate and awaiting the early opener?
Tell us HOW MANY HEADS?

The new aircraft are coming. I spoke of AMFA losing over 90% members jobs over the past decade due to outsourcing. The new TA will lock in way more jobs than any of the scope clauses at WN, AS, UA, and US. Try the abrogation route and see how we fair. Either way I will still be working however, unlike you, I am not willing to step on the bodies of others to say I am number one. That is a 1%'er IGM'er mentality. We should get a good wage for what we do however, UA, AS, WN, and US outsource more than the 35% proposed in the TA. If we had their contracts in place here the job loss would be huge.

Again, I can work at AA under any one of those scenarios. I'm just not going to vote for that kind of sacrifice of other people's jobs. Dave, apparently you don't care about other people's jobs. Keep being angry at the world though.

 

[Overspeed]

It was voted down because everyone could see how bad it was .2/3 of membership said NO !

And if they voted now 2/3rds would vote yes because in retrospect they would see how misled they were by the vote no coalition.

 

[comatose]

Yep and we had a deal that put us at number 2 in industry pay ahead of UA, CO, DL, and US. Voted it down remember because we were going to get a better deal. BK is just a threat remember?

Only an idiot will vote yes solely on money alone. It's about system protection, eagle limits and how the TWU wanted to give our
retiree medical match from the company away.

 

[Overspeed]

That should put a stake into LBO 2

And the exclusivity period was extended. Also, GECAS, Boeing, and Airbus prefer the stand alone plan. They have way more pull than US. US and CEO Parker are no white knight, Parker and Horton are old AMR Finance buddies from the 80s. Do your homework, you are a pawn in their game. Parker has not even finished merging US West and East. Adding AMR to the mix will not help us in fact it will probably doom all of us expect Horton and Parker. They and their senior execs will get nice severance packages while we sit here and keep voting no.

You are so smart Mister Red, a true knowledge powerhouse.

 

[Mr Red]

Only an idiot will vote yes solely on money alone. It's about system protection, eagle limits and how the TWU wanted to give our
retiree medical match from the company away.

Speedy forgets all that.we don't

 

[Overspeed]

Only an idiot will vote yes solely on money alone. It's about system protection, eagle limits and how the TWU wanted to give our
retiree medical match from the company away.

And you had system protection, limits on ASMs, and retiree medical stayed intact for those over 50 with a bridge for those 45 to 49. Didn't you read it? Of course you did, only an idiot would listen to a misinformed Local President or a raiding union organizer for the truth about the TA they were voting on!

 

[TWU informer]

The new aircraft are coming. I spoke of AMFA losing over 90% members jobs over the past decade due to outsourcing. The new TA will lock in way more jobs than any of the scope clauses at WN, AS, UA, and US. Try the abrogation route and see how we fair. Either way I will still be working however, unlike you, I am not willing to step on the bodies of others to say I am number one. That is a 1%'er IGM'er mentality. We should get a good wage for what we do however, UA, AS, WN, and US outsource more than the 35% proposed in the TA. If we had their contracts in place here the job loss would be huge.

Again, I can work at AA under any one of those scenarios. I'm just not going to vote for that kind of sacrifice of other people's jobs. Dave, apparently you don't care about other people's jobs. Keep being angry at the world though.

So you cannot answer the questions asked. You just resort to AMFA bashing and Dave Bashing because that is all you know how to do when faced with specific questions.

Again, AMFA at Northwest negotitated a 28% cap on outsource and at the time had no cap at all. When the new aircraft arrived, that 28% proved to not be beneficial job security and saved no jobs. Just as this TWU 35% is going to do here in Tulsa.

I will ask you again.
For the record.
In 36 months, how many heads will be working in Tulsa that will make the Industry Averaged Wage Adjusment?
HOW MANY HEAD - UNION MEMBERS?

You cannot answer because it is the same trap that happened at Northwest Airlines.

You have elminated the job security clause and now rely upon a percentage which is 7% worse than the one that was at Northwest.

And you want me to vote YES and accuse me of elminating jobs if I do not? You are dilusional.
Removal of the job security provisions, and a 35% outsource with new Aircraft Coming soon is complete decimation of the Tulsa Overhaul Base!

HOW MANY HEADS in Tulsa in 36 months? Answer that one!

 

[Show me the money]

Yep and we had a deal that put us at number 2 in industry pay ahead of UA, CO, DL, and US. Voted it down remember because we were going to get a better deal. BK is just a threat remember?

So you think that AA will reopen in four years. In what part of fantasy land do reside? Has this company ever been willing to start early and not take as long as humanly possible? The fear of taking our chance with the judge is just that. They do not want to abrogate. People think that if imposed it will last for six years. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As I have said and I will clarify just for you. Is US Air a white knight, NO but they are not the group we have now. If abrogated we still have to negotiate and creditors will highly motivated for merger so stock price will at an acceptable price as bankruptcy comes to an end.

 

[TWU informer]

And you had system protection, limits on ASMs, and retiree medical stayed intact for those over 50 with a bridge for those 45 to 49. Didn't you read it? Of course you did, only an idiot would listen to a misinformed Local President or a raiding union organizer for the truth about the TA they were voting on!

I voted for yes on that T/A, there was no guarantee that this Chapter 11 would not have happened so that is water under the bridge.

You have some pending specific questions that need answered.

 

[comatose]

And you had system protection, limits on ASMs, and retiree medical stayed intact for those over 50 with a bridge for those 45 to 49. Didn't you read it? Of course you did, only an idiot would listen to a misinformed Local President or a raiding union organizer for the truth about the TA they were voting on!

Yes, I read where I was going to give the company its retiree match(something they can't get by declaring BK) for nothing.

The company called it a NO COST CONTRACT. Do you not understand what NO COST means?

 

[Overspeed]

Yes, I read where I was going to give the company its retiree match(something they can't get by declaring BK) for nothing.

The company called it a NO COST CONTRACT. Do you not understand what NO COST means?

Yes I do. Now they are getting a COST SAVINGS CONTRACT. Do you know what that means?

 

[Bob Owens]

Its a simple question that isn't answered. The "Solution" you advocate will not come before there is a vote here. Given that we have to either chose the TA or Abrogation, what is the advantage to voting NO? Please, don't give me the political stuff about craft and our Union not being worthy. Those are items for another day. At the moment we have a decision that has two real and immediate consequence.

How are we going to recover from an abrogation and how long will that recovery take place? If I vote no, lose the pay raises and everything else associated with the Tentative Agreement, how and when can we expect to recover those losses? A year, two years, four years?

We've been told to Vote No for the last 4 or 5 years, but there has been no progress and there doesn't seem to be plan to gain that progress. Lots of words, lots of finger pointing, lots of testosterone, lots of ager...but few solutions.

How will you recover from voting YES? You are agreeing to being at the bottom of the industry for at least six more years. Even if they abrogate, which is not definite, they still have to negotiate. Look if we say NO and the Pilots accept this you can be sure of one thing, another ballott will go out before August 15th, and if the TWU has one out and it takes a few days past Aug 15th who cares?

Lets say the Pilots Vote NO, the Flight Attendants have already said NO, if the mechanics vote no how likely is it that the Judge will abrogate? I say its very unlikely, Why? Because for one thing the company has not shown a need for the cuts, their plan would make them profitable without the cuts. For another its one thing to abrogate the contract of a lone workgroup after all the others have accepted concessions than it is to abrogate the Contracts of the three seperate work groups that are the harder to replace. The three groups that could stop the airline cold.

 

[Strake]

So you think that AA will reopen in four years. In what part of fantasy land do reside? Has this company ever been willing to start early and not take as long as humanly possible? The fear of taking our chance with the judge is just that. They do not want to abrogate. People think that if imposed it will last for six years. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As I have said and I will clarify just for you. Is US Air a white knight, NO but they are not the group we have now. If abrogated we still have to negotiate and creditors will highly motivated for merger so stock price will at an acceptable price as bankruptcy comes to an end.

Why so hell bent on not letting Horton an crew pick our pockets but somehow you're ok with Parker's crew doing it? I think the AA guys deserve it more than the US guys. The AA guys have put a hell of lot more effort into it. Just think if the AA guys put as much effort into running the airline as they have persuing this BK? We probably wouldn't be in BK. I see the US guys kind of like I see the AMP and AMFA guys. You know, just kind of lurking around for crap to hit the fan and trying to slide in there when the opportunity presents itself. Simular to the old cliche of the guy running off the with his best friends wife after finding out the couple has been having marital problems. Real top notch

 

[TWU informer]

Yes I do. Now they are getting a COST SAVINGS CONTRACT. Do you know what that means?

So you cannot answer the questions asked. You just resort to AMFA bashing and Dave Bashing because that is all you know how to do when faced with specific questions.

Again, AMFA at Northwest negotitated a 28% cap on outsource and at the time had no cap at all. When the new aircraft arrived, that 28% proved to not be beneficial job security and saved no jobs. Just as this TWU 35% is going to do here in Tulsa.

I will ask you again.
For the record.
In 36 months, how many heads will be working in Tulsa that will make the Industry Averaged Wage Adjusment?
HOW MANY HEAD - UNION MEMBERS?

You cannot answer because it is the same trap that happened at Northwest Airlines.

You have elminated the job security clause and now rely upon a percentage which is 7% worse than the one that was at Northwest.

And you want me to vote YES and accuse me of elminating jobs if I do not? You are dilusional.
Removal of the job security provisions, and a 35% outsource with new Aircraft Coming soon is complete decimation of the Tulsa Overhaul Base!

HOW MANY HEADS in Tulsa in 36 months? Answer that one!

 

[Overspeed]

So you cannot answer the questions asked. You just resort to AMFA bashing and Dave Bashing because that is all you know how to do when faced with specific questions.

Again, AMFA at Northwest negotitated a 28% cap on outsource and at the time had no cap at all. When the new aircraft arrived, that 28% proved to not be beneficial job security and saved no jobs. Just as this TWU 35% is going to do here in Tulsa.

I will ask you again.
For the record.
In 36 months, how many heads will be working in Tulsa that will make the Industry Averaged Wage Adjusment?
HOW MANY HEAD - UNION MEMBERS?

You cannot answer because it is the same trap that happened at Northwest Airlines.

You have elminated the job security clause and now rely upon a percentage which is 7% worse than the one that was at Northwest.

And you want me to vote YES and accuse me of elminating jobs if I do not? You are dilusional.
Removal of the job security provisions, and a 35% outsource with new Aircraft Coming soon is complete decimation of the Tulsa Overhaul Base!

HOW MANY HEADS in Tulsa in 36 months? Answer that one!

The language is not 35% of aircraft work, it is maintenance spend. If AA spends $2B they can outsource $700M. Since AA has stated they will grow the fleet over the coming years that should offset part of the new job loss associated with new fleet types. NW had the oldest fleet age in the industry prior to BK. What new aircraft came pouring in after AMFA negotiated a cap? The TWU scope language has held up until now. I would say it has been tested and solid up to this point.

As far as headcount in TUL, based on the planned work reallocation and base closure in AFW the total job loss for M&R has been stated as approximately 2,500. That being said the future headcount that receives the wage adjustment to average should be current headcount minus 2,500. There should be some adjustments based on future fleet types but that should be offset somewhat by fleet growth.

I cannot, nor can anyone else for that matter see in to the future. Guarantees on headcount? I don't have enough info to do that.