TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[scorpion 2]

1.7% of the total 4.8% was result of the Me Too clause....The pilot CBA ratification had nothing to do with it since all unions needed to give 17% of the value of their contracts, instead of the original 20%.

59.8% of our equity was for concessions. So your saying since our initial concessionary ask was 20% and we got almost 60% of our equity for it and by reducing that ask to 17% we got 35.4% more equity in the form of me-too? Heck if we would have reduced our concessions by another 3% we would have gotten more equity for reducing concessions than giving them.
If you read the plan summary it says that if the company provides financial consideration to any other union which exceeded the value Negotiated by the twu the additional value would be extended to the twu. It doesn't say during negotiations it says negotiated,,, in the past tense. There is absolutely no way additional equity was released for any me-too provision. The twu as stated in the plan summary had the sole discretion to allocate as they saw fit. The me-too equity was nothing more than a catch all end all discussion neutralizer when it came to questioning whether the pilots got something extra when they finally ratified their CBA. But hey having a me-too provision did get fence sitters to vote yes.

 

[WeAAsles]

Did your dog run away too?

No actually I was forced to give him away to a family that I thought would take care of him. Come to find out that he had dug out under their backyard fence and they didn't care to go looking for him. He was in a kennel for 3 weeks and was three days away from being put to sleep when I found him. The only reason he was still alive was because the collar he had on him still had my address and phone number on it although those had changed. The Kennel was hoping someone would come looking for him. I did everything I could to keep him in my life after that.

But it's comments like yours that should make you wonder why some people may not really care about your issues and concerns?

 

[swamt]

Just heard that at the 514 stewards meeting yesterday the TWU/IAM are going to start joint talks without an NMB ruling.

 
 

 
Well, yeah!  Did you expect the association not to be approved?
 
Rubber-stamped!

 
 

Trying to get the discussion back on topic with something I was told! I don't know what to expect anymore.

 
 

I doubt they're going to negotiate before the ruling but like I said they are going for training next month at the IAM training center.

We need to capture gains quick. Lots of turmoil brewing out there.

 
 

 
There is your answer. Beg management for an agreement.
Then vote on the alliance.

 
 

 
Lower, right Bobby?

Since you guys are the ones on topic.  It's been 10 weeks today and not a peep from the NMB.  My opinion;  there are big problems with what this alliance is asking for, and I am sure it might have to do with the non-card collection prior to any vote.  The NMB has recognized that this is a very different situation than the "other" two groups that joined to make an alliance, they had a vote by the membership to do so.  However, we all know the TWU and IAM are scrambling like mad men to come up with a fix and/or options and it looks like the NMB is allowing the delays to continue while they find ways to get this done "behind close doors".  I call BS as all you guys should and fire letters off to the NMB and demand that action be taken now with the final decision.  Let the pieces fall as they may.  I have never seen a SCS decision take longer than 6 weeks, something is up, what it is we will all find out at the end...

 

[swamt]

   

Why not? The TWU knocked down AMT pay and benefits in 2003 so Fleet wouldn't have to give up as much. AMT lost 17.5% pay + Sick Time Pay + Longevity Pay + Vacation and holidays. Fleet lost 15% pay, kept longevity, kept Sick Time Pay and lost the same week vacation and holidays that AMTs did. So AMTs lost an extra 2.5% pay plus longevity and sick time pay. Is this how unions are supposed to work in your mind? Take more from one group so the others don't have to? This is why I want out of the TWU. In my opinion no other group should have gotten a single thing until the AMTs were restored the 2.5% and Sick Time Pay and Longevity Pay. But you would have screamed bloody murder wouldn't you? It's ok to screw the AMTs more when the givebacks come, but you better get yours when the raises come right? I refuse to be loyal to a union that treats me like a second class citizen. We are and have been the lowest paid AMTs in the entire airline industry for many years. Fleet at AA has not been even close to the bottom even after 2003. If I were in Fleet I would be ashamed that I condone the unfair treatment of my union "Brothers" the AMTs. But obviously we are only "Brothers" when it benefits you. It is plain that the only way that the AA AMTs can improve our pay and benefits is to leave the TWU who continues to force inferior benefits and unfair pay cuts on us while preserving these for the other groups. You have and continue to enjoy benefits that I and all other AMTs no longer have due to the unfair proportions of givebacks dictated by the TWU. I have said before that Fleet never said a word about the unfair treatment of the AMTs. That's fine, but don't jump in now and try to knock us for trying to get away from the TWU. You didn't care when they screwed us so you shouldn't care now. And if you don't care then quit making comments about it. You are happy with the TWU which means you are ok with them screwing the AMTs. This is part of the problem between Fleet and AMTs. We should not have less benefits than you do, but you don't ever bring that up do you? The more you tout the advantages of the TWU or the IAM or the alliance you prove you are a hypocrite. No union should discriminate against any other group. But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group.

Very well said sir!  

 

[swamt]

Your Union is trying to use percentages to make their argument appear better. Really, a 79% better negotiated raise and they're STILL at the bottom!? THATS what people look at, not the percent. That's the same argument WT uses to say how DL mechanics have it better off than anyone.

Exactly.  Also, I would much, much rather have the % raise on the base wages.  Everyone knows when you increase your licence premiums you are in fact just moving the pie needle around the board.  All the same amount of pie, depends on where the union decides to put it.  Puting it on LP's and other non base wages increases is in fact effecting ALL future wages when dealing with percentages as our industry does-period.   He can keep the IAM at US, AA'ers can keep the TWU at AA or both at the new AA, I could care less.  I will keep and stand behind my AMFA union here at SWA.    BTW we are paid much better at AS and SWA where we can afford the medical cost as well as investments into the best 401K plan in the airline business.  On top of that we have PS, SPP, and stock options that have paid off very nicely.  Can he say the same?  Oh, NO I don't think so.  WT you do not want to open our two contracts and go toe to toe with camparos, the AMFA contract over all will make you regurgitate, and go into dry heaves hands down.  Nice little try to step out there and knock AMFA down again, but you will not change the fact that SWA and AS has the best 2 contracts over all out there.  When people sit there and have to pick single ares of the contract are just trying to find the very little things that most do not care about or it would have been the number one item on the "memberships list" for the NC to nego from.  He won't even be able to brag after the new AA gets the JCBA, because the loser IAM will be at the helm for this first contract nego... 

 

[TRAVIS]

No actually I was forced to give him away to a family that I thought would take care of him. Come to find out that he had dug out under their backyard fence and they didn't care to go looking for him. He was in a kennel for 3 weeks and was three days away from being put to sleep when I found him. The only reason he was still alive was because the collar he had on him still had my address and phone number on it although those had changed. The Kennel was hoping someone would come looking for him. I did everything I could to keep him in my life after that.

But it's comments like yours that should make you wonder why some people may not really care about your issues and concerns?

Ok guys lets leave the dogs out of this. +1 WeAAsles for your dogs safe return. I donate to my local no kill pound have a soft spot for dogs and cats that get lost and thrown away IT's NOT THEIR FAULT...
 
ok back on topic. 
 
🙂 10 weeks today and no scs You Boys on the fence need to get your AMFA cards in now and lets get this thing to a vote and be done with it. 

 

[TRAVIS]

Your Union is trying to use percentages to make their argument appear better. Really, a 79% better negotiated raise and they're STILL at the bottom!? THATS what people look at, not the percent. That's the same argument WT uses to say how DL mechanics have it better off than anyone.

The IAM must be nervous they posted fliers in all the union bulletin boards with ANTI- AMFA fliers on pay and seniority and any thing that they can Twist or miss lead the members with. The one with pay in it made me LOL as Someone wrote across it and it said.. What Was the top pay of a SWA TECH Back 9 Years Ago! Are you using some new Math?
I think we need a new union and math teacher!
 
Put Your AMFA Cards In NOW or welcome to the BOTTOM again!

 

[xUT]

The IAM must be nervous they posted fliers in all the union bulletin boards with ANTI- AMFA fliers on pay and seniority and any thing that they can Twist or miss lead the members with. The one with pay in it made me LOL as Someone wrote across it and it said.. What Was the top pay of a SWA TECH Back 9 Years Ago! Are you using some new Math?
I think we need a new union and math teacher!
 
Put Your AMFA Cards In NOW or welcome to the BOTTOM again!

And of course, nothing is signed nor supported by either/or the international or local.
The 'flyers' used to show up all the time without endorsement.
But people believe that horse hockey.
Good Luck!
B) xUT

 

[blue collar]

The IAM must be nervous they posted fliers in all the union bulletin boards with ANTI- AMFA fliers on pay and seniority and any thing that they can Twist or miss lead the members with. The one with pay in it made me LOL as Someone wrote across it and it said.. What Was the top pay of a SWA TECH Back 9 Years Ago! Are you using some new Math?
I think we need a new union and math teacher!
 
Put Your AMFA Cards In NOW or welcome to the BOTTOM again!

Yeah, I see they're using the seniority scare tactic also.

 

[TRAVIS]

And of course, nothing is signed nor supported by either/or the international or local.
The 'flyers' used to show up all the time without endorsement.
But people believe that horse hockey.
Good Luck!
B) xUT

They seem to show up here when the IAM is concerned about a union getting close to booting them out. They did the Anti-IBT fliers on the last IBT drive at US AIRWAYS when they were getting close. 

 

[TRAVIS]

Yeah, I see they're using the seniority scare tactic also.

More IAM misleading and twist's of the Truth.
Next they will pull the you'll be non-union BS.
700 will be posting every scare tactic flyer and half truth BS lie they tell him to. 

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

 The majority of us are tired of the TWU writing checks against AMT pay and benefits for their political gain.

Maybe you should at least pay attention to this part.......
 
He is absolutely right.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I'm sorry but no, in 2003 I was not thinking about what anyone else was getting in cuts except myself. Kind of hard to think about someone else when you've been laid off to another station, forced to live with 3 other co-workers who drank too much for my tastes, being forced to sell my home and take a loss on what I paid for it and being separated from my wife that eventually led to a divorce. Next time I'll try to think about you instead of my own selfish needs.

Besides prove to me that your cuts by percentage to your total compensation among your workgroup were greater than mine? If they were then you are right and that's not fair. But now show me the proof? 

"But it's fine with you as long as it's not your group"

Wrong guy Jack. Go stare into your own mirror.

No I got the right guy alright.  For someone who claims to know so much you are lacking basic math skills.  Let's have a math lesson....  Since AMTs make more per hour than FSCs and we both took a 15% pay cut, the AMTs would lose more money.  But we didn't lose the same %.  AMTs lost 17.5% (that's 2.5% more than the 15% cut you took), plus longevity, plus sick pay.  So you got laid off?  Many of my fellow AMTs did also.  Some were also forced into OSM positions where they lost $10 per hour on top of all the other cuts.  No other work groups were faced with a lower classification or the prospect of losing $10 per hour.  Of course you were only concerned with yourself.  You are the typical "I got mine." that populate the TWU.  The facts are all there right in front of you and you still won't admit that the AMTs have been treated unfairly by our union and continue to be mistreated.  And we have holier than though FSCs like you judging us for wanting out of the TWU?  No matter how hard you try to spin it the facts remain that the AMTs were forced to give up much more than any other group in the TWU.  You can deny it all you want.  But denial ain't just a river in Egypt pal.  You can't admit that the AMTs actually have every reason to want out of the TWU.  The TWU (and all other work groups in it) should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this travesty to happen to any group in their union.  And it continues going on 12 years now!
     But you didn't know huh?  Well you know now don't you?  But you continue to call others hypocrites?  I am done wasting any more time on you and your continued effort to help the TWU torpedo the AMFA drive and also push the alliance.  There are way too many like you in the TWU (yes even in the AMT ranks) who will sell out their "Brothers" so they can get theirs.  I'm sure you'll have another condescending remark but the truth is you don't care about your union "Brothers".  Go ahead and put your spin on this.  We all know what you are and what your agenda is.  I won't comment on anything else you have to say, but people like you love to get the last word in so have at it.  I'm sure it will be "Special".  I'll even wait to read it before I put you on ignore like I should have long ago. 

 

[OldGuy@AA]

 

AANOTOK .....  I am afraid you and I  are dinosaurs and there are too many WeAAsles in our midst. 

 

[swamt]

Yeah, I see they're using the seniority scare tactic also.

What are the seniority scare tactics you guys are hearing about. Pls post what you are hearing.  I will correct any misinformation as far as the SWA and /or AT seniority issues are concerned. But pls give details...