TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[700UW]

Everyone on the NC for the IAM were elected to a position they hold, we have never held elections for the NC.

 

[NYer]

Either you or WeAAsles, not much of a difference. So your characterization was wrong. Copy.
 
 
 
From what the US guys posted participation in the IAMNPF is not optional, they can't choose a 401K match instead. Where are you getting this from?
 
 
Not sure where that statement came from but they already did, they agreed to a deal that says that their members can not work if they are collecting a pension, that sounds like the IAMNPF has a lot of control to me. 
 
 
What you fail to see is that the Association does not preserve what you have, it only preserves the fact that your dues go to the TWU. Already the two have agreed to change the way we determine seniority, doing it the IAM way-by SSN instead of age, and our pension-the IAMNPF instead of 401K match (and possibly 65 vs 60 without penalty) again doing it the IAM way. Make no mistake they are going to rework everything you know into the IAM model, so I guess the only good thing will be that you will be paying the lower TWU rate for IAM misrepresentation instead of the higher IAM rate, but then again if the TWU prevails you get to keep not only your lower dues but possibly the other things you say you want to keep. What do you get to keep in the Association? --I guess if you repeat things enough, they become true? The seniority is Classification, Date of Hire, then SSN. The Pension issue you mention is not accurate, but I guess the actual language isn't important in place of rhetoric.
 
It's pretty myopic to make arguments that the IAM way is terrible then at the same time advocate for an election that makes it easier to have the "IAM way" take over if they win an election. This coming from someone that has lambasted the TWU for YEARS, suddenly there is a feeling of confidence the TWU could win an election and avoid any "IAM way" to take over. Pretty strange hypocrisy.

 

[NYer]

So you are saying that the worst case scenario is that we end up in the IAM, but the Association will put you in the IAM pension, the IAM seniority determination process and the IAM has control the first two years. Thats already been determined. From what you are saying here you should be advocating against the Association because why would you want to be in an association with an organization that you obviously do not want to be a member of? You are aware that at any time the station you are in could be transferred to the IAM aren't you? By endorsing the Association you are making it that much more likely that your worst case scenario could become your reality.
 
You call it rolling the dice, I call it taking a stand, once in a while you have to do that you know.
 
The IAM may have had a chance had they come back with a wage close to Delta and Profit Sharing, but with the turd they brought back they would not get more than 500 cards (ex-TWA) from the TWU side. You yourself say that ending up in the IAM is a worst case scenario, well with this Association everything is already being done as dictated by the IAM so whats the difference? 

 
You've been wrong so many times that this will just join the ranks of the legendary doomsday scenarios.
 
See above...repeat, repeat, repeat....doesn't make it true.

 

[Bob Owens]

No Bob, I had absolutely NOTHING to do with their benefits and compensation...NOTHING!

That the thing with "indirect", its often unseen. You have to connect all the dots to see where the action ended up. If you voted on a President from Fleet that sits in on Maint negotiations then your vote did/does affect the M&R agreement. But no aircraft mechanic in the system gets to vote on anyone that sits in Fleet Negotiations, some Title II mechanics do though, but they are minority members in any location. This has been diminished since the formation of the separate Locals, so now only Fleet from DCA, ORD, DFW, SFO, and NYC get to vote on Presidents who sit in on Maint Negotiations. So since 1999, depending on where you are, maybe you did or didn't but other FSC's did. Not blaming you or them, just saying its something that needs to be fixed. 
 
During our negotiations Videtich would put out the call to all the FSC Presidents to show up when he wanted to ram something through, we would see the guy from DTW, BNA etc all of a sudden show up.
 
Every A&P mechanic in the room, except Charlie Meyers from STL, voted against bringing the BK agreement back, by far A&Ps are the majority of the class and craft but we were outvoted by FSCs, non-A&P AMTs and Title II, only Eddie Suarez out of MIA voted against it from Title II. 

 

[whoop whoop]

This is to NYer and weaasle,
 
If you guys don't want to be a part of this democratic United States for what ever bullsh%& reason you come up with, that's fine by most people. Go move to Iran, Afghanistan or better yet, the new Islamic State. Over there fear rules and nobody votes on anything. Here in This beautiful land of The United States of America where DEMOCRACY RULES, people are not scarred to let the process work the way it was intended to, by MAJORITY VOTE. Not to just let some entity make up whatever rules because of the fear of the outcome.
 
In AMERICA, people are smart enough to make their own choices and thanks to the brave men and women that protect that right, we AMERICANS practice our DEMOCRACY and vote.
 
I hear its nice this time of year over there in the arab middle east. Don't look back and do forget to write. We wont miss you.
 
Arrivederci

 

[Bob Owens]

Something doesnt seem right here.
 
I cant see a Fleet Service person being on a mechanic and related negotiating committee nor a Fleet Service person voting on a CBA that they are not working under nor are they in the class and craft.

A FSC does not vote on an M&R contract, but they do vote on a President from Fleets who can sit and vote on whats in an M&R contract. This is because of the convoluted structure of the AA/TWU which is almost as convoluted as the structure of the Association. The fix is easy, allow the remaining Title II to go into Local 591. 

 

[whoop whoop]

I can't believe you guys are giving these 2 so much attention with the craziness they are spewing. Let the 2 fools just talk away and don't pay any attention to the fear mongering trolls.

 

[Bob Owens]

Everyone on the NC for the IAM were elected to a position they hold, we have never held elections for the NC.

Yes they are elected by the members as Stewards etc but the International picks who they want for the NC correct? -UNACCEPTABLE.

 

[700UW]

AMFA doesnt elect their negotiators now do they?
 
And since you were APPOINTED to the Negotiating Committee why did you accept it if you werent elected to the Negotiating Committee?
 
You cant have it both ways there Bob.
 
The IAM District chooses the Negotiating Committee with input from the IAM Transportation Department.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yes they are elected by the members as Stewards etc but the International picks who they want for the NC correct? -UNACCEPTABLE.

AMFA Negotiating committee members are elected members from the affected airline:

http://www.amfanational.org/docs/2012_AMFA_Constitution.pdf

See section 3

 

[Vortilon]

A FSC does not vote on an M&R contract, but they do vote on a President from Fleets who can sit and vote on whats in an M&R contract. This is because of the convoluted structure of the AA/TWU which is almost as convoluted as the structure of the Association. The fix is easy, allow the remaining Title II to go into Local 591. 

 
 
Yet another reason why all M&R at AA should be signing AMFA cards.  Once again the (communist collective) TWU International has set up a system to have non mechanics decide what is on our contract.  That is insane!  Honestly, I know a lot of guys are not even aware of this.  The TWU was not very forthcoming with these critical details.  That is akin to having Flight Attendants weigh in on the Pilots contract.

 

[Vortilon]

 
So, if I'm not a "commie" and I'm not a sheep/chicken combo who likes to be told what to think, I can prove otherwise only if I agree with what you want me to agree with and follow the rest of the AMFA supporters...you know, fall in line. Is that right?
 
BTW--If most were ready for a change AMFA would of had enough cards by now. Isn't "most" a majority and if you had "most" wouldn't the TWU be out by now? It doesn't seem you've grasped the idea of, "most."

 
 
So answer my question with another question?  Typical.  Most are ready for change!  Of course you already know this - as evidenced by the last AMFA drive missing by only 46 cards.  Need I remind you of the BS your boys at the International level pulled off by placing every person they could think of (dead or alive) in our (class and craft).  They solicited fleet service managers in DFW and MIA, and asked them how many cabin cleaners they have - that performed what could be technically enough to include them in the M&R group.  They tried to include management, people who fell off the recall list, retired people, it was pathetic. The TWU along with AA managements help got the stooges at the NMB to bite on including just enough of these types to dilute the vote in the TWUs & AAs favor!
 
Now try and deny that! 

 

[TRAVIS]

Travis, have you or anyone out here heard anything more from the Pres. 591 Peterson on this alliance issue?  After the this long holiday weekend, this coming Wed will be 10 weeks since the filing.  This ok as AMFA will have more time to collect cards from the US guys.  I do know one thing from all this, you guys DO NOT want this alliance to be the union at the new AA, you think you have it bad now wait till you guys get involved with this alliance BS.  

No new Info. The TWU 591 requires login and I can't get in, But some of the info can be seen on the login page by clicking on tabs. Maybe one of our LAA boys can get in as I'm LUS. http://www.local591.com/
As it is taking this long for a NMB designation, I think the Alliance is dead and it will come to a Vote and I'm all most certain the IAM will be over run by the TWU members by sure numbers.
BOB said it and I totally agree with him the IAM contract that they got for MX at US Airways was the killer, If the IAM had a chance it was then, But they as always covered their own butt's. So they sold us out again with a BK contract and told the members we will get them with the next contract while they put this BS alliance into play and now I think it BACKFIRED on them.
IF I'M RIGHT, THEN YOU CAN KISS THE IAM AND THE BS IAMNPF GOOD BY.
 
NOW IS THE TIME FOR CHANGE PUT YOUR AMFA CARDS IN NOW!
OR welcome to the TWU........

 

[scorpion 2]

Read it again. I was talking about a vote between the IAM and TWU, instead of the Association agreement, and the possible consequences of such a vote.
 
There is nothing wrong with a vote between the two if there was one....I just rather not take the chance of losing when winning gives me nothing. If the IAM wins, we can lose many things we currently have. If the TWU wins, we can keep many of things we currently have. If the Association wins, we can keep the things we currently have AND each side can prioritize their needs to keep most of what they want in a CBA, such as a the IAMNPF.
 
With the Association, they can keep their IAMNPF and we can keep out frozen assets and 401K. How harmonious would we all be if one side or the other won an election and we spend the rest of our careers fighting each other and card drives so each side can try to regain their losses.....That's not even mentioning the seniority agreement that is part of the Association which can go away if there was a fight between the two sides.
 
A vote to decide that chaos is not worth it to me. Too much to risk and too little to gain.

I see. So forcing both sides into an alliance neither party wants will stop the card drives. Wow your a deep thinker.

 

[scorpion 2]

The $310 includes the total value of all concessions, so yes it includes the lump sum option even if it was given no value.  --No. it does not. Just like the 4.8% of the TWU does not include just the changes to the CBA. Included in that 4.8% was 1.7% in a "Me Too" value not directly linked to the CBA. It also includes value gained from settlements of grievances tied to the 757's and the healthcare overpayment.
 
 
Let me clear things up for those who are unfamiliar with the way you like to spin things. You throw out big numbers to try and confuse things, the Lump sum was not a multimillion dollar option, it was the option to take a lump sum payment of your pension and give up guaranteed payments for life so on an actuarial basis the value of the lump sum was less than if you collected a pension. Its similar to the way if you win the lottery you can take the full amount paid out over many years or you can accept a smaller award all at once. --That's a little ridiculous. The "Lump Sum" payments enable pilots to take their full value whether they lived an hour, a week or a century past their retirement date. Those payments were made at one stop and not spread out over time which lessens the liability for the Company. So much so, that getting rid of that "lump sum" payment was a central "want" for the airline, and they got it.
 
I was not at that table. That was done at "high level" negotiations where only the International and whomever they picked was present, what I participated in was merely a sideshow conducted by the International because they know that the only way to get the members to accept these lousy deals is to have faces that the members picked tell them its the best they can expect, by the way there was a lawsuit filed on that. So once again when hit with the facts you resort to distract by an attempt to make a personal attack and leave out the fact that the International made videos telling the members they needed to accept what you now admit is an inferior agreement. You are no longer claiming that we didn't get the worst deal, instead you are trying to say its my fault because you claim I was there. Why not just admit you were wrong? --Sir. You are bringing out the fact and complaining that other work groups did better. I merely mentioned that you had a participatory seat at the event you're complaining about. To your defense, this was a BK situation where leverage is not something employed in those types of negotiations. 
 
How much value did the mechanics get for their lump sum option? I know it was gone when I hired on but management still got it because I remembers several taking it. --Don't be coy, that was an issue from 1983 and not as a result of the BK like the pilots lump sum option was.

What was the me-too linked too?