TWU and IAM representation alliance vote

[xUT]

I don't know who the individual members were and who are and did what Kev? Individuals can decide for themselves if each person was a hero or a goat? What the man did say though is that they weren't even given the chance to vote and decide for themselves what there next move was going to be? It was decided for them.  

 
Scab - ex iam president, first to cross the picket line.

 

[NYer]

Yes, You blame AMFA's loss of members on AMFA. But you blame the IAM's loss of members on economics and BKs....seems fair. 
You just don't get it, do you? We mechanics who want change will take just about any change to rid ourselves of the TWU. IAM is not an option either. Had the IBT stayed in it for the long haul, many of us would have voted for them. Would it make you happy if it weren't AMFA....How about a new union for mechanics with NO former representation portfolio? This way you can't go on and on about how many members they lost.
it isn't so much about AMFA as it is about ridding ourselves of the TWU.

 
Don't believed I blamed anyone for the loss of Members. Just stating the facts.
 
I completely understand that some mechanics are willing to take just about anything to rid themselves of the TWU. That fact might be the thing that is the biggest hindrance as to why that movement has been so unsuccessful. The campaign for change has basically been, "the TWU sucks, so we must get AMFA." That doesn't seem to be enough to get the numbers needed to trigger a vote.
 
"...it isn't so much about AMFA as it is about ridding ourselves of the TWU." There may be your problem, you're asking Members to make a change and just jump off a cliff by telling them to trust you because the fall is not that bad. Most people won't do that.

 

[NYer]

Once again, I ask you......WHY DO YOU STILL WANT THE MECHANICS IN THE TWU WITH YOU? 

 
Anyone can do whatever they believe is in their and their Brothers & Sisters best interest. Apparently, most haven't seen a reason to make a change or have seem a place worthy of going to, in order to make that change.

 

[NYer]

Like I told 700, WT and others I will no longer feed you with correct information.  YOU need to do your own homework before you post wrong, lies, misinformation--period.  I never agreed to what you posted, AGAIN do not try to put words in my posts, get a clue moron, it won't work with me... --Not "feeding" correct information about AMFA (if it's positive) only hurts the mechanics that want change and want AMFA. That would lead those on the fence to just believe it isn't the right move. That's your call, but I hope that shot you feel in your foot doesn't hurt too much.
 
AMFA was the "ONLY" union that showed guts at NWA, I repeat, the ONLY union to stand up to NWA.  All the others caved and agreed with NWA for all the concessions and layoffs and rifs and displacements for all their members.  AMFA had the balls to fight for the majority of the membership while all the others just simply caved to all their accepted concessions.  Matter fact all the other unions scabbed and crossed AMFA's picket and strike lines, therefore supporting the company in it's agenda to rid themselves of AMFA as they were the strongest union that represented any group at any airline---PERIOD... --So you want history to show that AMFA had guts, they went on strike for 18 months, gained nothing with that tactic except to have about 90% of their Members permanently replaced....but they had the guts to do it. Is that accurate? 
 
Watch and learn my little friend, I have not let all the info out that I know... You're running out of time. Get those cards signed. That's more important to you than to me so don't hold back and make your case. You guys needs those cards signed and time is running out. (again)

 

[NYer]

AA side has enough cards.  The side that is lagging is the US side now that they are added to the total count (or at least expected to be added to the count).  I will not spoil the numbers at this time, but trust me, if there is a vote for the alliance AMFA will in fact be involved point blank.  Your wish will more than likely come true... ---Great. good luck to all. Hope it works out this time.
 
Wrong.  All the industrial unions have lost more members as well as airlines than AMFA has, hands down.  But yes all unions have lost members as well as airlines thru the years of representation... --Not a math whiz, but you need to have more to lose more.
 
The decade long AMFA drive you speak of has gone head to head with the TWU (current AA represenative), the AA company side working with the TWU, as well as the ibt also working with the AA company and the TWU, and then there is the IAM who never worked with anyone except the US company.  Why is it that ALL the industrial unions as well as airline companies work so freakin hard to keep AMFA out?  This speaks volumes upon volumes at how hard everyone is working to keep AMFA out everywhere.  The companies are so used to working so well with the unions for concessions after concessions in the past they are not willing or ready for a new regime to come in and change their comfort zone of how past agreed to agreements have worked for the last 30 plus years for the TWU represented members at AA.  And they (industrial unions) also know that once AMFA gets in at the new AA it will snow-ball into other airlines once the entire industry sees how AMFA operates at AA... --If they're working so hard, and you know they're working hard then you should be able to overcome. On the hand, if organizing a work force that you say is ripe for the vote is so difficult then how can anyone have any confidence that negotiations challenges will be overcome when you can't even get cards signed from a group that you say it completely feed up. It doesn't square.
 
But keep trying. It might work out this time.

 

[NYer]

 
Yes, and the fact that the IAM is far worse, is brought up to counter your attempts to degrade AMFA and expose your flagrant hypocrisy - Its just a fact

 
They're far worse because you say so? Your opinion is going to be issued as fact?

 

[NYer]

 
"...It happened with the NWA strike..."
 
NWA managements last best offer was to eliminate over half the memberships jobs - give us a taste of your TWU brilliance, what should they have done? 

 
OK sorry. I see your point. They wanted to fight against losing half the Membership.
 
Then I guess it was bad luck they were on strike for 18 months and ended up with a deal that was far worse than the original proposal. Of the 4500, or so, represented members. 500 eventually went back to NWA with worse language than what their "guts" turned originally turned down.
 
Later, NWA merged with Delta and instead of being able to try and organize that workforce, the remaining mechanics at NWA became non-union.

 

[WeAAsles]

Posted 02 March 2004 - 12:33 PM

You never cease to amaze me. You and your amfa crap never stop. We all know what started the increase in wages and it wasn't amfa!!! I can't and will never take to the assumption that amfa cares about everyone in the craft and class. There is too much evidence to prove other wise!!

Concessions were voted on just like the "last round" was. I tell you what WASN'T voted on was the vast numbers of employess in YOUR craft and class Bob that were laid off with no warning. Amfa kept promising clearer skies and better conditions. Yeh, better conditions for whom?? Those who work at the unemployment office??

What proof do you have that the AMFA layoffs are any more permanant than our layoffs?

You know I don't have proof at this moment in time. I could put up an argument regarding FM etc but the reality of it is Bob that amfa layoffs were due to the "negligence" of it's union leaders. Amfa layoff numbers far out number the TWU's. Now you guys complain about lower wages, concessions etc but what do the former members of amfa have Bob??? NOTHING!!!!! THEY DON'T HAVE A JOB!!! You guys criticize us for wanting to save jobs!!!! Why do you think that is Bob??? Tell me with all of your knowledge , why do you think the TWU cares more about it's members than amfa??? Amfa is a one way ticket to the unemployment line for many, many folks and there is NO denying that. Look at their record.

You asked me what more I want as far an proof that amfa is the better union and all you ever come up with is we can vote out Delle and we got a higher wage. Which is a load of crap because we all know the pilots started the "trend" if you will, for wage increases. Amfa has NOTHING!!! NOTHING!!!! No proof of their "service" to union members that it is the better union. NOTHING!!!!

Two different philosophies as far an unionism is concerned in my opinion!!
 

 

[NYer]

I believe that was another general chair named Golofski. Also a scab. I knew both of them personally. Both are vermin. Both were IAM "leaders" who led the charge across the picket line as scabs. The IAM was full of them at that time.

We did get a vote. I had my ballot and voted to strike. There was no reason to bring that garbage offer back to us. We were not going to vote to eliminate our own job. --Doesn't that go against the AMFA talking points that their members vote for everything. There were two or three proposals submitted to AMFA but none of them were sent to the members to vote on. By the time the last proposal came, called "Terms of Employment" there were only about 2,400 members in good standing that could actually vote and it was passed with a 72% to 28% margin. A deal that was far worse than the original proposal which there was not opportunity to vote for.
 
"After 444 days on the picketline, members of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association have voted to accept a settlement and end their strike against Northwest Airlines. In results announced Monday, the vote was 72 percent in favor and 28 percent against the settlement agreement. A total of 2,097 out of the 2,461 eligible voters cast ballots. The deal, announced Oct. 9, won't mean immediate jobs for the strikers, the union said. Instead, members will have the choice of going on layoff and possibly being recalled to a position in the future – or leaving the company and accepting 10 weeks' worth of separation pay. Workers who crossed the picket line and new hires during the strike will keep their jobs under the terms of the proposed settlement."
 
 

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

OK sorry. I see your point. They wanted to fight against losing half the Membership.
 

You just don't get it. With AMFA, there is no "they". We voted to strike. We fought a company, and the IAM, who wanted to eliminate over half of our jobs. The IAM was more than happy to fill in the void left when we went on strike. So you see, It was not "they wanted to save their membership". It was us. All the people representing us were elected by us, including the negotiators.

I can see how you think now. People are members or non-members to you, not workers.

You never did answer my question. Did you support us while we struck? Did you walk our picket line? Would you have crossed it to perform our work? Several people on here did walk with us. Some IAM folks here also did not cross the line. There were quite a few that did the right thing and refused to follow the IAM's scab request to assist the company in breaking us. They are real union people who understand right from wrong.

 

[WeAAsles]

On Wednesday, AMFA members at Northwest got this letter from the union:
 

“The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) has agreed to a Transition Commitment with Delta Airlines that will bring the Mechanic and Related Employees that we represent at the former Northwest Airlines to pay, seniority, and benefit parity with their Delta counterparts. AMFA believes that this commitment from Delta will bring this work group to a single carrier determination.
 
“AMFA would like to thank all those that submitted authorization cards during our card drive to represent the combined work group. However, the showing of interest has come short of the required number needed to file for representation. To prolong the single transportation system determination any longer would be a disservice to those that we currently represent at the former Northwest Airlines.
 
“To that end, AMFA will be filing with the National Mediation Board (NMB) requesting to extinguish our certification for representation of the Mechanic and Related class and craft. This will clear the way for Delta to treat the combined work group equally based on their agreement to the Transition Commitment. We wish you all the best in the future at the new Delta Airlines.”

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2009/02/nw-union-steps-aside-so-its-me.html/

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=122807

 

[NYer]

You just don't get it. With AMFA, there is no "they". We voted to strike. We fought a company, and the IAM, who wanted to eliminate over half of our jobs. The IAM was more than happy to fill in the void left when we went on strike. So you see, It was not "they wanted to save their membership". It was us. All the people representing us were elected by us, including the negotiators.
 
The national director of the mechanics' union at Northwest Airlines came here Monday to rally his striking troops, amid signs of discontent among picketers and no end in sight to a 10-day walkout."
 
"Although the 40-year-old union prides itself on encouraging input from its members, AMFA leaders decided not to take Northwest's last offer to members for a vote. Mr. Delle-Femine has defended that decision, pointing out that workers voted 93 percent in favor of a strike in July, and calling the airline's final offer "unworthy" of their consideration." (source, NY Times Aug. 2005)

I can see how you think now. People are members or non-members to you, not workers.

You never did answer my question. Did you support us while we struck? --I tend to support any union Brother & Sister that is on strike.
 
Did you walk our picket line? Would you have crossed it to perform our work? Several people on here did walk with us. Some IAM folks here also did not cross the line. There were quite a few that did the right thing and refused to follow the IAM's scab request to assist the company in breaking us. They are real union people who understand right from wrong.

 

[swamt]

Nice try NYer, it won't work.  These people need to get off their lazy butts and do their own homework or they will have to live with the consequences for the rest of their careers.  We did our homework over here at SWA when we fired the ibt.  None of this affects me it's all on them.  I am only here to correct the lies and misinformation about AMFA or SWA...

 

[WeAAsles]

Nice try NYer, it won't work.  These people need to get off their lazy butts and do their own homework or they will have to live with the consequences for the rest of their careers.  We did our homework over here at SWA when we fired the ibt.  None of this affects me it's all on them.  I am only here to correct the lies and misinformation about AMFA or SWA...

So how are the negotiations going over there so far? I found the second paragraph discussing the "New Theme" very interesting.

http://www.amfa32.com/SWA%20Mechanics%20Contract%20Docs/AMFA%20SWA%20Technician%20Negotiations%20Update%20_24.pdf


"In addition, we vehemently disagree with the company's misplaced assertion that this group does not have the negotiating leverage to break the ice on any new issue"

 

[NYer]

Nice try NYer, it won't work.  These people need to get off their lazy butts and do their own homework or they will have to live with the consequences for the rest of their careers.  We did our homework over here at SWA when we fired the ibt.  None of this affects me it's all on them.  I am only here to correct the lies and misinformation about AMFA or SWA...

 
Ditto. Everyone needs to do their homework and investigate what is best for them and their Brothers & Sisters.