TUL mechs

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Rehashing the TWA seniority issue is only going to open up old wounds. All we hear is how the TWA people got screwed. Ok But remember an arbitrator ruled. Both unions pleaded their case. I think it is safe to say that if there EVER were a vote between the IAM and the TWU, the seniority issue ALONE would be enough for most anti TWU members to vote FOR the TWU. 
All it does it stirs anger in both parties affected. But remember the TWU party is bigger.

Metal Mover
 
I am not trying to rehash the TWA guys but we all must think about what will happen if this association gets in.
 
What is the association going to do with the TWA guys as far as the integration?
 
If we use the McCaskill Bond and go strictly by Occupational seniority then dovetail that is fair correct? Y or N?
 
Now what happen IF a TWA guy decides to transfer to MIA from STL do we adjust the whole list because he has to go back to 4/10/01 because of the Kasher agreement?
With this merger which ruling is going to hold up and is one going to over rule the other, or are we going to go back to court and get another ruling from some other judge?
 
By doing that we could end up with all these dates and it will be hard to know if we get bypassed or anything else just make it one list and one date and live with it.
 
This is only going to delay the process and keep us from getting a JCBA that works for us all.
 
We the A&P's of the airline have been out for ourselves for so long it a disgrace.
 
When an journeyman electrician moves or transfers from LA to NY other than the required test for the state his pay does not go to the bottom. Why does ours?
Being bought out for what ever reason should be the same keep what you got.
 
Now if you make the choice to start over then you are a new hire and should be treated as such. But your pay and experience should count for something. You didn't get stupid because you changed uniforms.
 
The size of the union is different and yes I would agree that it should make a difference if we all voted, but how many will? Just look at how many didn't vote during our contract.
A&P's are just happy to get the O/T rather than fight for what is right and the company knows it. We wouldn't have to work O/T if we got what we wanted, TRUE? Y or N?

 

[MetalMover]

Metal Mover
 
I am not trying to rehash the TWA guys but we all must think about what will happen if this association gets in. If it does, then we are all screwed.
 
What is the association going to do with the TWA guys as far as the integration? I recall the agreement between the IAM/TWU referring to DOH under CURRENT contracts. I do not see either the IAM or anyone reverse what an arbitrator ruled.
 
If we use the McCaskill Bond and go strictly by Occupational seniority then dovetail that is fair correct? Y or N? McCaskill Bond came AFTER AA/TWA which was decided under Allegheny Mohawk. If McCaskil Bond applied now, the former TWA FA's would be getting their full time back as would the pilots. 
 
Now what happen IF a TWA guy decides to transfer to MIA from STL do we adjust the whole list because he has to go back to 4/10/01 because of the Kasher agreement? The Kasher ruling is binding.
With this merger which ruling is going to hold up and is one going to over rule the other, or are we going to go back to court and get another ruling from some other judge? Don't you think the TWA FA's would have done so?
 
B

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

But anyway what's the rumors out of tulsa?

As far as?

 

[2ndGENAMT]

But anyway what's the rumors out of tulsa?

Not really a rumor but TULE is running out of work Rapidly! I still believe their will be upwards of 800 laid off by end of 1st quarter 2015 and the company is spending money like crazy at the base...

 

[MetalMover]

Not really a rumor but TULE is running out of work Rapidly! I still believe their will be upwards of 800 laid off by end of 1st quarter 2015 and the company is spending money like crazy at the base...

Spending money on what?

 

[Overspeed]

Understand that a lot of non-ER 757s are being retired in 2015. C check volume should fall off quite a bit. Look on the bright side, at least outsourcing is going down...

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

Not really a rumor but TULE is running out of work Rapidly! I still believe their will be upwards of 800 laid off by end of 1st quarter 2015 and the company is spending money like crazy at the base...

Don't count on it lots of work next year.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

56 heavy checks just on the 737 next year.

 

[lpbrian]

Will there be a 737 pulse line?

 

[topDawg]

 
TOPdawg
 
You sound as though You are one of the Blue bloods as I call you.Thanks but no. I am a Delta guy.  The guys who have never been laid off hired into AA and have, reaped the bennies of the seniority you created. Now I haven't been laid off, that is true. true blue luck. hired on at the right time and I am smart enough to stay in Atlanta.  Alot of what should be done to be fair for all is NOT what you think should happen because it effects your deal. No what is fair is fair. Delta buys AA tomorrow it should DOH. If that means I go to JFK Line then that is what it is.    The TWA guys got screwed and they should of been dovetailed in, just like the AIR-CAL guys. I don't know how the AirCal  deal worked, but there is no "thinking" TWA guys got screwed. You guys tossed em under the bus, watch them get run over, then begged the bus drive to double tap them. Many of the BLUE Bloods feel different and were against the merger we don't need them. I didn't feel that we NEEDED NWA. Still didn't think they should be stapled to the bottom of our lists. (heck and a chunk of them are scabs and STILL don't think the non-scabs should suffer) It ended up we did not but it gave us market share vers the others who just merged. AA did away with the employees and the routes wasted the opportunity and did the same with RENO Air. Consolidation is consolidation. Even if you give up routes and hubs it still drives one more airline from the market place. That isn't a bad thing, what the AA unions did was terrible. What AA did was just business. I am not butt hurt that you guys now have the Delta hangar in Dallas. I am pissed how management handled it, but the dumping of the hub was business. Same deal MEM and CVG.   
 
If you knew how it feels to start over at the bottom each time a airline you hired into went down for what ever reason you would think different. The guys who have been in this industry who worked for Boeing, McDonald Douglas, Eastern, Lockheed, PanAm, TWA, Air Florida, Continental, and all the others we took jobs at in the 70's and 80's, to feed our families understand this. Your still at the station you hired into I bet and never had to commute to keep the job you have am I right?you would be right. Again, I got in in Atlanta at a good time and have missed lay offs. (sometimes it has been very very close, but missed them none the less) 
 
but if Delta goes under tomorrow and i have to head to TULE to work I expect to start at the bottom and start right over. thats how this deal works. I understand that completely. 
 

 
 
 "This is true if you are talking about time in the current JOB,  as we call it at AA occupational time, NOT company time. Yrs ago there was very little upgrades from fleet so your DOH was the classification/occupational time. But with the new upgrades and jr programs there is NO WAY a guy who has 25 yrs on the ramp should come to maintenance and go to days with 6 months of A&P time. "
 
Okay I should have been more clear. I do mean AMTs for AMTs. If you work the ramp and move over (after 25 years) then yes, I better not get bumped. I do agree with that. I mean, class for class, in a merger DOH is the only correct way to go. Delta generally gives you half the time if you move to a new class (so a 30 year person on the ramp who moves to AMT gets 15 years.) I think that half time is a fair number. But if Delta buys AA (or AA buys DL) and you have 2 more years than I do at AA, I shouldn't end up above you on the combined list because Delta was the buying carrier. You paid your dues just like I have mine. When in a merger, class for class, should be DOH. 
 
 
hope I cleared that up a little bit. sorry for the confusion AMFAinMiami. it seems like we are both on the same page I just worded it poorly. 
 
 
PS good luck in your AMFA drive. Many not be many but the few AMFA supporters at DL are pulling for you guys. 

 

[topDawg]

I think he is agreeing with you. 
 
Like I said under I don't like seeing where the message is to give concessions and hope another carrier buys you vs fight concessions and starting at a new carrier.  I think its wrong that an EAL guy comes in with nothing but then ten years of concessions later a TWA guy comes in ahead of him.
 
Personally I would rather see portable seniority, let us take our seniority with us at our discretion and not have our seniority be a tool for management. 
Such a set up is probably impossible to implement in this industry with us all split up into different unions so the next best thing is to structure contracts so seniority becomes what it was originally meant to be-lay-off protection. 
 
The objective for us as a profession should be to maximize portability and mobility, with these tools we can maximize compensation. One of the reasons why CEOs make what they make is because its easy to leave one job for another. Make it as easy as possible to move from one employer to another at our discretion. Seniority actually does the opposite, it makes us sitting ducks, vulnerable and hard to defend. To minimize the detrimental effects of seniority we need to rethink how we look at our profession and what makes us stay with employers that abuse us. 
 
First thing-eliminate progressions. One rate, if you want an A&P mechanic he is coming in at the same rate as everyone else. Everyone is at the same rate so the company can't divide and conquer by offering to bring some up to top rate with contract ratification. This also places a premium on experience and facilitates mobility. If I can quit AA and go work at UAL with a pay raise from Day one I'd be more inclined to do so, if UAL has to pay someone who knows what they are doing the same as someone who doesn't they will hire the one who does. 
 
Second thing- very large premiums for working shifts and weekends. In many skills Saturday is Double time and Sunday is triple time, you can earn a whole weeks pay by working those two days. With large premiums the Junior guys would be stuck with normal hours  such as day shift with weekends off. 
 
Third- Everyone should have the same vacation allotment and round robin should be the system. 
 
Forth- The mindset of "reward for years of service" died decades ago on the Corporate side. Among unionists holding on to that mindset causes nothing but division and weakness. Every move the Union makes should foster a sense identity as Union Mechanics, not XYZ Airline mechanics. Identity is important. 

for the most part I agree Bob. 
 
but your talking about something that will never happen. 
 
 
maybe if we can get all the AMTs in the US in the AMFA............. 

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Spending money on what?

LEAN Manufacturing even though we manufacture very little.. Removing perfectly good work benches and building modular units that are all alike. Buying very expensive Vidmar cabinets and filling them with "Shop Supplied Tools" and telling the workers to take their personal boxes home that are full of the same tools they are buying..

I don't believe the Hangar Techs are taking theirs out yet as I am speaking about back shops.
The managers are all for it especially if it makes them look good to upper management.

Heard the other day they are buying tool Vending Machines where we will check out items like torque wrenches, drill bits, etc. and these are $80k+..Less Material Specialists??

I am for anything that will make us more efficient and keep people working but I for one will be less efficient working from some generic tool box!

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Don't count on it lots of work next year.

I would like to believe this but the amount of engine and component work for 737 doesn't equal what the MD80 require!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Heard the other day they are buying tool Vending Machines where we will check out items like torque wrenches, drill bits, etc. and these are $80k+..Less Material Specialists??

I heard the same thing years ago at TULE. I dismissed it as a rumor because I never saw any movement on it. 

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

I would like to believe this but the amount of engine and component work for 737 doesn't equal what the MD80 require!

Except we will be doing almost double the amount of 737 work in 2015 vs 2014.