TUL mechs

[swamt]

 
No, nobody gets a pass. The difference is AMFA and BK at NWA they ended up losing over 25% in pay and benefit cuts plus 90% of jobs. AMFA at UA ended up adding to the pay and benefit cuts plus more jobs (all but three lines of airframe overhaul and kept all engines) beyond what the IAM already gave up in BK.
 
The TWU at AA got an immediate 3% pay raise while in BK plus another 4.3%, plus equity totalling $25K per member, plus kept more lines of airframe overhaul than any airline regardless of BK, and kept most engines in-house. 36 months after DOS will be at parity with peer airlines.
 
No one gets a pass, it's just faced with similar circumstances...the TWU did far better.

Once again you fail to comprehend that the IAM nego the contract and AMFA had (was forced) to take over the concessions that they nego with the company.  The dates says it all.  Nice try again O/S.  Keep posting, your doing great...

 

[swamt]

Hey O/S,
 
You do realize TUL is only protected for two years, once AA gets its outsourcing perfected you will see cuts.
 
On the US side CLT and PIT are both protected for the life of the CBA.
 
At US most shops are gone, that was in the second chapter 11, but overhaul is protected, 50% of billable hours must be done in-house, no line maintenance can be farmed out.
 
Also what the TWU negotiated is crazy, 35% of the total budget is enormous.
 
Hey does anyone know what the total maintenance budget is at AA?

What is key here is the numbers are always and will be "controled" by the company...

 

[700UW]

I cant speak for AA but at US the IAM does review the percentages every year, and trust me they know how dirty US can be, they have only been dealing with them since 1949.
 
When I was out there, we caught them in many CBA violations and they played dumb, one of them was meal carts that they vendored and they left the room and the paperwork was in their files and it just happened to fall into the IAM's hands, lol.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Hey O/S,
 
You do realize TUL is only protected for two years, once AA gets its outsourcing perfected you will see cuts.
 
On the US side CLT and PIT are both protected for the life of the CBA.
 
At US most shops are gone, that was in the second chapter 11, but overhaul is protected, 50% of billable hours must be done in-house, no line maintenance can be farmed out.
 
Also what the TWU negotiated is crazy, 35% of the total budget is enormous.
 
Hey does anyone know what the total maintenance budget is at AA?

just look at our scope, what a joke...nothing concrete and favors the company
but we did better overspun.....the twu is the leading concessionary union over the last 30 years,   dont believe me just look at our industry leading concessioanry contracts and tally the numbers up as compared to the industry....BK or not and the TWU wins the title of leading concessionary union.   We gave concesions when no one else did.  the TWU single handedly broought the whole industry down thanks to their great negotiations in 1983,1989,1993,1995,2003,2012

 

[Bob Owens]

They need to explain themselves.
 
You should ask Jim that question. I would question your valuations myself Bob. Don't the pilots have a much more lucrative pension plan than any other work group? Yes they do so therefore they got more equity. Pretty simple Bob. Even a 591 treasurer can figure it out...oh wait, I forgot who the treasurer is.

Sounds like you are pretty close to getting one of those white jackets with the sleeves wrapped around and connected on back. So now you are accusing the FSC Presidents of being AMFA support r s as well? A dollar is a dollar and for every dollar of concessions we got 2/3 less equity. What part of that do you fail to comprehend? The dollar value of their pension is part of the total.

 

[Overspeed]

Sounds like you are pretty close to getting one of those white jackets with the sleeves wrapped around and connected on back. So now you are accusing the FSC Presidents of being AMFA support r s as well? A dollar is a dollar and for every dollar of concessions we got 2/3 less equity. What part of that do you fail to comprehend? The dollar value of their pension is part of the total.

Thank you for your "I can see Wall Street from my house" wisdom.

Their pension is worth way more than ours.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
There was no lie. The orginal post had to do with that AMFA was attempting to organize all the airlines after NWA. While the IAM was negotiating with UA under the threat and eventual BK AMFA spread lies about how they would fight outsourcing and never give in to company threats.
 
Well the IAM rejected the first concession agreements and were forced under the 1113e proceedings to take huge pay and benefit cuts by Wedoff. Then the IAM and other unions had no choice but to accept the concessions that were forced on them by the 1113 process. AMFA still claimed they would fight any further cuts if they made it on. In 2005 AMFA took over and when they said they would not accpt further cuts Wedoff basically told AMFA that they will because it would be unfair to other unions on UA property. So AMFA folded and further allowed more work to outsourced and took an additional almost 4% pay cut on top of the previous pay cuts taken by the IAM a few years before.
 
The UA membership realized they had been lied to after also witnessing AMFA's "wins" at NWA and AS (not under threat of BK) closing OAK base. Then walked in the IBT and out went AMFA. AMFA showed how it handles pressure by acting completely unprofessional and losing the jobs of 90% of its NWA members jobs and 50% of AS jobs, and futher pay, benefit, and job cuts at UA.
 
In the words of Charlie Sheen...winning!!!

 
There was indeed a lie ... and more than one  at that.
 
Your pathetic attempt to re-qualify your posts is duly noted but your obfuscation changes nothing.
 
You still haven't explained this glaring set of contradictory posts ...
 
You tried to blame AMFA for the loss of overhauls at UAL ...
 

 
.... UA (gave in to mgmt's demands to outsource almost all airframe overhaul and blame the IAM), ....

 
Then while trying to cover for that LIE, you expose yourself by posting that it was indeed the IAM that gave up overhauls at UAL ...
 

 
2003
IAM agreement allows unrestricted outsourcing of heavy maintenance and reduces furlough protections.
900 mechanics in Oakland and 1,400 at Indianapolis are laid off when UAL shutters both stations.

 
One of these statements is true, the other is a LIE, and since you are responsible for both that makes you a liar. 

 

[Overspeed]

 
There was indeed a lie ... and more than one  at that.
 
Your pathetic attempt to re-qualify your posts is duly noted but your obfuscation changes nothing.
 
You still haven't explained this glaring set of contradictory posts ...
 
You tried to blame AMFA for the loss of overhauls at UAL ...
 
 
Then while trying to cover for that LIE, you expose yourself by posting that it was indeed the IAM that gave up overhauls at UAL ...
 
 
One of these statements is true, the other is a LIE, and since you are responsible for both that makes you a liar. 

 
Big words but changes nothing.
 
IAM gave under force by Wedoff and the ATSB after they rejected the original concessions request by UA. Then it was forced on them by Wedoff under the 1113e process. You know that. There was no cave by the IAM.
 
"It was under a Section 1113(e) motion that the Interim Relief Agreement, effective January 1, 2003 , went into “emergency” effect for nearly 9% cut in our wages. It was under this motion that the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Districts 141 and 141-M (IAM) refused a consensual agreement for a 13% “emergency” wage cut and the court subsequently imposed a wage cut of 14%."
 
AMFA came in based on the lies that they would do better. Wedoff said nice try and told AMFA they would accept more concessions and so AMFA caved. Gave more wage concessions and more overhaul work. Not a lie as well.
 
In the end UA M&R caught on and ousted AMFA. And not a lie as well.
 
TSH bottom line, AMFA got booted at UA due to their abject failure to deliver on any of their tactics or "professional" representation at AS (lost OAK overhaul while not even in BK), caved beyond what the IAM had taken from them at UA, and the coup de grace...lost 90% of their members jobs at NWA.
 
Way to go AMFA!

 

[700UW]

Wow, you are such a liar.
 
I am an IAM Supporter, the IAM negotiated the closing of IND and OAK, it wasnt AMFA.

 

[Duke787]

Hey I just placed over speed on ignore, and I already feel better, like when I stopped watching fox and friends in the morning. Not everything has to be spun.

 

[iluvaa]

Over speed 700 called you out so now I know you are completely full of poo

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

So tell me Overspeed, why won't you address your contradictory statements?
 
First you said AMFA was responsible for the loss of heavy maintenance at UAL, then you post the IAM gave it up.
 
And not that I need to expose your blatant ignorance yet again, but you know NOTHING when it comes to what AMFA did at UAL.
 
Here is just one example of the truth of AMFAs action in bankruptcy at UAL.
 
http://socialistworker.org/2005-1/529/529_11_United.shtml

 

[FWAAA]

So tell me Overspeed, why won't you address your contradictory statements?
 
First you said AMFA was responsible for the loss of heavy maintenance at UAL, then you post the IAM gave it up.
 
And not that I need to expose your blatant ignorance yet again, but you know NOTHING when it comes to what AMFA did at UAL.

When you make things up as frequently as he does, it gets difficult to keep the stories straight.   He's not a very good liar.   Frequent liar, to be sure, but not very good at it.    

 

[Overspeed]

Wow, you are such a liar.
 
I am an IAM Supporter, the IAM negotiated the closing of IND and OAK, it wasnt AMFA.

 
And you can't read either but that's okay. 1113e and 1113c forced those changes on the IAM.
 
UAL entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy on December 9, 2002. On January 10, 2003, the bankruptcy judge mandated a temporary wage reduction of 14%. On April 29, a six-year concessionary agreement was ratified with annual cuts of $340 million. By May the Indianapolis and Oakland maintenance bases were closed, leading to thousands of layoffs.
 
That was round one of the Chapter 11 process, just before AMFA came on board. A second round began in November 2004 resulting in more concessions in 2005. All five UAL pension plans were terminated, including the plan for mechanic and related employees. The pension blow was pre-arranged by UAL, imposed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), and signed off by the bankruptcy court.
 
UAL languished in bankruptcy for nearly 38 months — the longest in aviation history — finally exiting on February 1, 2006.

 

[Overspeed]

So tell me Overspeed, why won't you address your contradictory statements?
 
First you said AMFA was responsible for the loss of heavy maintenance at UAL, then you post the IAM gave it up.
 
And not that I need to expose your blatant ignorance yet again, but you know NOTHING when it comes to what AMFA did at UAL.
 
Here is just one example of the truth of AMFAs action in bankruptcy at UAL.
 
http://socialistworker.org/2005-1/529/529_11_United.shtml

 
It's easy really.
 
1113e and 1113c process forced the IAM to accept changes to the CBA after initially rejecting them.
 
AMFA then came in and then accepted more after Wedoff told them that it would be wrong if AMFA took no cuts while all other unions alrady had.
 
Lastly AMFA got booted after a disasterous run at UA.
 
All true whether you choose to believe or not. OV even stated that AMFA membership at UA had no choice but to accept further cuts and givebacks in the second 1113c.