TUL mechs

[Overspeed]

Did

 
What it proves is that you're a liar, and that when confronted with facts that disprove your obvious falsehoods, you don't have a shred of integrity to admit you lied.
 
 
 
 
These are your original two statements concerning AMFA at UAL. Both are complete and utter lies. 

 
Didn't lie. AMFA stated they would do better than IAM. They didn't. They gave up more work and greater cuts. OV even stated that his members had felt that they would lose in BK more with further talks. Then they voted AMFA out for the IBT. Not a lie. You still insist AMFA is awesome so why did the UA M&R voted them out the first chance they got? Because AMFA lies.

 

[MetalMover]

Did
 
Didn't lie. AMFA stated they would do better than IAM. They didn't. They gave up more work and greater cuts. OV even stated that his members had felt that they would lose in BK more with further talks. Then they voted AMFA out for the IBT. Not a lie. You still insist AMFA is awesome so why did the UA M&R voted them out the first chance they got? Because AMFA lies.

Why hasn't SWA booted AMFA out?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Did
 
Didn't lie. AMFA stated they would do better than IAM. They didn't. They gave up more work and greater cuts. OV even stated that his members had felt that they would lose in BK more with further talks. Then they voted AMFA out for the IBT. Not a lie. You still insist AMFA is awesome so why did the UA M&R voted them out the first chance they got? Because AMFA lies.

 
Didn't Lie?  Well then simply explain how your previous "statements" are true.   You can't, You know it, and you're so ethically bankrupt you can't even admit it.
 

 
.... UA (gave in to mgmt's demands to outsource almost all airframe overhaul and blame the IAM), ....

 

 
.... The truth is that the IAM AMTs voted down the concessions deal at UAL. The deal that was passed under AMFA was actually the original IAM deal with more concessions. ....

 
And while you're at it PROVE this 3rd lie you just tried to float.
 

 
.... AMFA stated they would do better than IAM. They didn't. They gave up more work and greater cuts. ....

 
You're a text book example of why the AA membership is about to toss the TWU to the curb.  The Membership obviously doesn't like to be lied to

 

[700UW]

Why was AMFA voted out at UA?
 
I am not downing them or anything of the sort, just wondering why they voted them out and voted in the IBT who has screwed them over.

 

[700UW]

delete

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Why was AMFA voted out at UA?
 
I am not downing them or anything of the sort, just wondering why they voted them out and voted in the IBT who has screwed them over.

 
The teamsters came to UA with similar lies and distortions they tried to peddle at AA & US.
 
Specifically they preyed on our senior mechanics who were closing in on retirement at the time and unfortunately bought into the teamster lies about a triple vesting pension.
 
Besides their pension promise(we still don't have one), they also claimed they could open our contract early(they didn't) claimed they could stop blended work(they didn't) they claim they'd protect us from layoffs(approx 800+ mechanics were laid off in their first year)
 
These are just a few examples of some of the lies the majority of UAL mechanics bought into.

 

[Overspeed]

 
Didn't Lie?  Well then simply explain how your previous "statements" are true.   You can't, You know it, and you're so ethically bankrupt you can't even admit it.
 
 
 
And while you're at it PROVE this 3rd lie you just tried to float.
 
 
You're a text book example of why the AA membership is about to toss the TWU to the curb.  The Membership obviously doesn't like to be lied to

 
The IAM voted down the first deal and then had the BK judge Wedoff impose 1113e wage cuts on them. Then another TA was passed shortly before AMFA took over basically accepting what had already been imposed by the judge while also receiving pressure from the ATSB pulled loan guarantees that could have forced liquidation. AMFA came in then got slapped with another almost 4% additional wage concession plus greater outsourcing. You know this is all true. Blame the IAM all you want and the IBT for deceiving AMFA members (kind of like the pot calling the kettle black). AMFA lied! They said they could do better than the IAM and then got booted for lying to the biggest liars and most corrupt organization of all...the IBT. Way to go AMFA! The union that holds the record for losing the most members jobs in the shortest time ever! GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!!!!

 

[Duke787]

20+ year mechanic line dayshift makes right around $36.92
 
We get 12 sick days a year @ 75% pay the first week 100% thereafter
 
Vacation we get 5 weeks after 19 years - 6 weeks after 24 years - 7 weeks after 29 years
 
We currently get 8 holidays


What UAL has now (from UAL thread) and how well did the IAM do for their mechs? How does AMFA's and IBT's compare to the newly negotiated IAM contract?

There's a lot of rhetoric going on here, let's compare the numbers and see who does the best for their members. With the TWU they decided to take equity away from us, and on the final distribution the FA's got 5 shares, worth about $200, not sure why the TWU didn't pass out the final distribution to us.

 

[Duke787]

The IAM voted down the first deal and then had the BK judge Wedoff impose 1113e wage cuts on them. Then another TA was passed shortly before AMFA took over basically accepting what had already been imposed by the judge while also receiving pressure from the ATSB pulled loan guarantees that could have forced liquidation. AMFA came in then got slapped with another almost 4% additional wage concession plus greater outsourcing. You know this is all true. Blame the IAM all you want and the IBT for deceiving AMFA members (kind of like the pot calling the kettle black). AMFA lied! They said they could do better than the IAM and then got booted for lying to the biggest liars and most corrupt organization of all...the IBT. Way to go AMFA! The union that holds the record for losing the most members jobs in the shortest time ever! GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!!!!

Wasn't AFW, MCI, and a larget portion of TUL lost under the TWU? Not to mention mechanics dropped down to OSM's so they can stay in TUL ? Didn't the TWU decide to close the locals? Didn't the TWU decide to confiscate some of our equity share? Wasn't it the TWU that negotiated the largest concession 9 years BEFORE bankruptcy?

GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If the TWU and IAM are such good unions, then why are both unions scared to take an election for one union to take over? Our pilots and FA's who have some of the best contracts in the industry, didn't even think of some alliance.

I'll tell you why, they're hedging their bets so neither one risk losing their dues. I doubt I'm the only person that thinks that.

 

[Rogallo]

Check One:
 
☐ TWU
☐ IAM
☐ TWU/IAM
☐ AMFA
☐ No Union
 
Majority Rules.
Must be present to win!
Problem Solved!

 

[Overspeed]

Wasn't AFW, MCI, and a larget portion of TUL lost under the TWU? Not to mention mechanics dropped down to OSM's so they can stay in TUL ? Didn't the TWU decide to close the locals? Didn't the TWU decide to confiscate some of our equity share? Wasn't it the TWU that negotiated the largest concession 9 years BEFORE bankruptcy?

GOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If the TWU and IAM are such good unions, then why are both unions scared to take an election for one union to take over? Our pilots and FA's who have some of the best contracts in the industry, didn't even think of some alliance.

I'll tell you why, they're hedging their bets so neither one risk losing their dues. I doubt I'm the only person that thinks that.

 
Because most you lack critical thinking skills let me explain it to you.
 
If you worked here in the late 80s through the early 90s you would know that AFW was built to handle a fleet far beyond 600 aircraft. Guess what? We are now at 600 aircraft so no need for AFW or MCI base capacity once AA shrunk from over 800 aircraft. There was no scope language to force AA to maintain facilities beyond the need of the airline. AFW only stayed open as long as it did because AA could only get rid of its obligations on the financing except in BK.
 
TUL jobs lost (2,500) in BK were because of the 1113c CBA agreement and AA still maintains more overhaul capacity than any other airline bar none.
 
AA forced concessions on all unions at AA. While concessions across all CBAs were not apples to apples, the fact remains all unions took cuts.
 
Your anti-Int'l, pro-AMFA local reps created the situation that led to retirees suing for equity shares. You voted for them. Little said don't cut them out or they may take legal action and it wasn't fair. Guess he was right.
 
Your right, the TWU should have said full pay to the last day, had pay cuts exceeding the 17.5% imposed, lost retiree medical in 2003, lost continued pension funding, and allowed shuttering of MCIE, AFW, and most of TUL overhaul capacity enabling AA to shed jobs down to less than 6,000 jobs instead of keeping all that stuff and the jobs for another 10 years.
 
So the TWU lost far fewer jobs than any other union or non-union company. That's a GOOOOOAAAALLLLL!!!!
 
AMFA never even made group play. Losing almost all your members jobs so they can smile and say they were fighters must feel awesome. Apparently not in the opinion of UA M&R, they had enough and dumped AMFA.

 

[MetalMover]

 
Because most you lack critical thinking skills let me explain it to you.
 
If you worked here in the late 80s through the early 90s you would know that AFW was built to handle a fleet far beyond 600 aircraft. Guess what? We are now at 600 aircraft so no need for AFW or MCI base capacity once AA shrunk from over 800 aircraft. There was no scope language to force AA to maintain facilities beyond the need of the airline. AFW only stayed open as long as it did because AA could only get rid of its obligations on the financing except in BK.
 
TUL jobs lost (2,500) in BK were because of the 1113c CBA agreement and AA still maintains more overhaul capacity than any other airline bar none.
 
AA forced concessions on all unions at AA. While concessions across all CBAs were not apples to apples, the fact remains all unions took cuts.
 
Your anti-Int'l, pro-AMFA local reps created the situation that led to retirees suing for equity shares. You voted for them. Little said don't cut them out or they may take legal action and it wasn't fair. Guess he was right.
 
So the TWU lost far fewer jobs than any other union or non-union company. That's a GOOOOOAAAALLLLL!!!!
 
AMFA never even made group play. Losing almost all your members jobs so they can smile and say they were fighters must feel awesome. Apparently not in the opinion of UA M&R, they had enough and dumped AMFA.

I'll ask you again....Why hasn't AMFA been booted out by the mechanics at SWA?

 

[FWAAA]

Because most you lack critical thinking skills let me explain it to you.
 
If you worked here in the late 80s through the early 90s you would know that AFW was built to handle a fleet far beyond 600 aircraft. Guess what? We are now at 600 aircraft so no need for AFW or MCI base capacity once AA shrunk from over 800 aircraft. There was no scope language to force AA to maintain facilities beyond the need of the airline. AFW only stayed open as long as it did because AA could only get rid of its obligations on the financing except in BK.

AFW opened in January, 1992, when AA had about 667 airplanes in the mainline fleet.
 
For a short time in 2001, following the TWA asset purchase,  AA flew more than 900 mainline planes (almost 1,000 for a brief time).   Obviously, the MCI base wasn't necessary once the fleet shrank in the post-September 11 slump.   
 
AA never really "needed" the AFW overhaul base, as the work could have been done at TULE.   
 
By 2011, UA and DL were sending all of their widebodies to China, Singapore, Hong Kong or elsewhere for heavy checks, and AA joined the club, sending the 777s to HKG.   AFW became surplus.   

 

[Duke787]

Because most you lack critical thinking skills let me explain it to you.
 
If you worked here in the late 80s through the early 90s you would know that AFW was built to handle a fleet far beyond 600 aircraft. Guess what? We are now at 600 aircraft so no need for AFW or MCI base capacity once AA shrunk from over 800 aircraft. There was no scope language to force AA to maintain facilities beyond the need of the airline. AFW only stayed open as long as it did because AA could only get rid of its obligations on the financing except in BK.
 
TUL jobs lost (2,500) in BK were because of the 1113c CBA agreement and AA still maintains more overhaul capacity than any other airline bar none.
 
AA forced concessions on all unions at AA. While concessions across all CBAs were not apples to apples, the fact remains all unions took cuts.
 
Your anti-Int'l, pro-AMFA local reps created the situation that led to retirees suing for equity shares. You voted for them. Little said don't cut them out or they may take legal action and it wasn't fair. Guess he was right.
 
Your right, the TWU should have said full pay to the last day, had pay cuts exceeding the 17.5% imposed, lost retiree medical in 2003, lost continued pension funding, and allowed shuttering of MCIE, AFW, and most of TUL overhaul capacity enabling AA to shed jobs down to less than 6,000 jobs instead of keeping all that stuff and the jobs for another 10 years.
 
So the TWU lost far fewer jobs than any other union or non-union company. That's a GOOOOOAAAALLLLL!!!!
 
AMFA never even made group play. Losing almost all your members jobs so they can smile and say they were fighters must feel awesome. Apparently not in the opinion of UA M&R, they had enough and dumped AMFA.

Funny how when TWU members lose jobs, there are good reasons for it, but for another union to take layoffs they are all wrong.

Let's look at pay, because I'm not a social program to support someone else.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
The IAM voted down the first deal and then had the BK judge Wedoff impose 1113e wage cuts on them. Then another TA was passed shortly before AMFA took over basically accepting what had already been imposed by the judge while also receiving pressure from the ATSB pulled loan guarantees that could have forced liquidation. AMFA came in then got slapped with another almost 4% additional wage concession plus greater outsourcing. You know this is all true. Blame the IAM all you want and the IBT for deceiving AMFA members (kind of like the pot calling the kettle black). AMFA lied! They said they could do better than the IAM and then got booted for lying to the biggest liars and most corrupt organization of all...the IBT. Way to go AMFA! The union that holds the record for losing the most members jobs in the shortest time ever! GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLLL!!!!

 
None of your most recent rant explains away your previous lies.
 
You claimed....
 

 
.... UA (gave in to mgmt's demands to outsource almost all airframe overhaul and blame the IAM), ....

 
This is a LIE. Heavy Overhaul was lost under the IAM, and our two overhaul bases(IND & OAK) were closed because of that - NOT because of AMFA
 
You claimed ...
 

 
.... The truth is that the IAM AMTs voted down the concessions deal at UAL. The deal that was passed under AMFA was actually the original IAM deal with more concessions. ....

 
This is a LIE. The link you originally provided was about our IAM PEB contract negotiations not bankruptcy proceedings - The deal AMFA made in 2005 had NOTHING to do with any IAM plan.
 
You claimed ...
 

 
.... AMFA stated they would do better than IAM. They didn't. They gave up more work and greater cuts. ....

 
This is a LIE. Under AMFA we took cuts during the second round of bankruptcy talks but those concessions were nowhere near as much as the concessions we took under the IAM.
 
 
 
If you wish to continue to insist these fabrications are the "truth" then PROVE IT.  You can't - You know it - You're a LIAR.   Thats the real truth here.