To ï¬￾nd proï¬￾t, carrier plans to lose more Vegas flights

[Pacemaker]

No argument about the great atttitudes @ WN but the productivity advantage over US lies not there but primarily in the type of operation each airline has chosen to run. US's business model is horribly inneficient. They require subtantially more resources, employees included, to put an equal amount of seats in the air. This is rooted in US management decisions over decades of time. Given the WN business model I'm sure US employees would be quite productive.

 

[Pi brat]

Jim's numbers show WN '08 CASM wages and costs at 3.23 vs. 3.01 for US. What's Doug talking about?

 

[Planemx]

..And here we have it folks! = "It's those dang employees and their bad attitudes!" again/ALWAYS..as opposed to, say....even perhaps?..EVER even considering the wholesale ineptness of a greed-soaked management that makes things to be as they are. I can clearly see that the only "solution" for that's to replace everyone with the least bit of experience with newly hired, Koolaide-vulnerable (at least..for awhile) people...and.."All would be Well" You guys just, flat-out, crack me up

Here's a blasphemous and radical suggestion = Why not replace utterly failed, completely clueless and obsessively greedy"management" (the highest compensated around) with the sorts that Southwest manages to find instead? Seriously; Instead of imagining replacing virtually the entire workforce; don't you think that might be worth a try first?

Let me guess...you have been in the union for 100 yrs and nothing was ever your fault either - the blame game doesn't work here, we do.

Until the employee's (all the employees) of this company change their way of thinking we are destined to be every bit of the nightmare we fear. Kelleher had it right....we are told that point to point doesn't work yet that is what keeps SWA at the top (along with those employees who don't live their life thinking the company 'owes' them). If you can't be part of the solution than you are part of the problem.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Although Doug is making excuses, WN probably has the highest labor costs of the low cost carriers. Using 2008 numbers to match the previous numbers B6's labor cost is 2.14 cents/ASM, FL's is 1.99. So US does have higher labor costs than the average low cost carrier. However, given the affects of having such a diverse network as mentioned by Pacemaker, it's impossible to say how much of the labor cost disadvantage is due to the pay scales and how much is due to other factors.

Note: F9 does their breakdown differently with components of employee cost in different categories, so it's hard to tell what their employee cost per ASM really is.

Jim

 

[EastUS]

Let me guess...you have been in the union for 100 yrs and nothing was ever your fault either - the blame game doesn't work here, we do.

Until the employee's of this company change their way of thinking we are destined to be every bit of the nightmare we fear. Kelleher had it right....we are told that point to point doesn't work yet that is what keeps SWA at the top (along with those employees who don't live their life thinking the company 'owes' them). If you can't be part of the solution than you are part of the problem.

This is so utterly hilarious I can't find the proper words!!

You're lecturing one who's had plentiful experience working at places where employee morale and enthusiasm was generally quite high. That includes time at PSA, which was the cookie cutter from which Southwest was cloned.

I think what any company "owes" any employees is simple respect for their efforts, and for themselves as people..period. When that's established; all else generally follows well.

Taking from another "work enviornment" = If a given military squadron's suffering morale problems, or efficiency issues...you don't look to the ranks to find the problem, but rather, the command staff...period. Lead well, (versus "manage") and people will follow. It's really that simple.

 

[hp_fa]

Hey HPFA,

WN is the highest percentage of unionization in the industry and are the highest paid.

True, but they aren't trying to shrink to profitability either. My comment was aimed at airlines trying to shrink to profitability, not all airlines across the board.

Have a good day.

 

[hp_fa]

Haven't been on a PAID US Airways flight since August of last year.

Then I stand corrected sir. You do understand the point I was trying to make, I just was lacking the fact that you appeared to me to be still flying US Airways as a paid passenger.

 

[jetjok1]

This is Plane Ridiculous!! When Franke was in charge of HP, his whole stradegy was VEGAS! The only place that kept America West running was VEGAS BABY!! Makes no sense now does it Parker??! You could of kept the night runs and Fuel prices went skyrocket, so guess what, You Retreated!!!! FOOL!! Want to keep RASM low?? HELLO????!!!!! Whatever! :blink:

Now I guess you will RUIN PHOENIX TOO, RIGHT!?????? Not much here, but yes Southwest will gladly take IT!! Don't make more mistakes that US Air did long ago, and ruin the West operation!!! :down: :down: :down:
Are we grasping for straws now?? What the heck did America West bring to the table Mr. Parker, beside synergy??? Your true colors are showing!!
Were we not suppose to be the Biggest Low Cost Carrier in the World, ala, LCC???!!!!!!!!! LOL :angry:

We're not the biggest LCC. Haven't you been reading the company news. We are neither a " Big legacy Carrier", nor or we a low cost carrier. We are a niche leisure travel carrier so we are in a league of our own. But, wait!!!, Parker and Co. is the HIGHEST paid airline executive thieves in the industry!!! After all, they compare THEIR compensation with the big six but when negotiating payrolls- well now, that's a different story isn't it.

 

[UPNAWAY]

..And here we have it folks! = "It's those dang employees and their bad attitudes!" again/ALWAYS..as opposed to, say....even perhaps?..EVER even considering the wholesale ineptness of a greed-soaked management that makes things to be as they are.

Managment has change many, many times the employees attitudes have not! Even hard corps union folks on here in moments of clarity have said that Jesus himself couldn't make many of these people happy. It is time you look in the mirror, it is highly unlikely that it is always managments fault.
Or maybe why don't you strive to become managment and change things?
Ever notice that when some unions or union folks ever take over or move into management nothing changes, not even the relationship between the workers and managment?

 

[aptboeses]

I think people should stop comparing US with WN. These two companies are extremely different. WN only flies to larger cities in the U.S. offering one type of service. They use the point to point system which is inherently more efficient for moving people between two cities they want to travel between. WN does not (at the moment) operate any scheduled international flights. WN only flies one type of aircraft.

US on the other hand offers service between larger cities as well as service to smaller towns and international destinations while offering up to four different types of products (F/Y, J/Y, Express and Shuttle). US utilizes a hub and spoke network for funneling people from A to B via X. US needs several different aircraft types to achieve it goals such as E190, A319/20/21, A332/3, B733/4 and B757/67. (Though is should be noted that Boeing A/C are scheduled to leave the fleet within the next 5 to 10 years) Then you have the Express carriers that US contracts out to to provide service to the smaller towns.

Neither is "better". The only similarity between the two is that they both transport passengers.

 

[Planemx]

This is so utterly hilarious I can't find the proper words!!

You're lecturing one who's had plentiful experience working at places where employee morale and enthusiasm was generally quite high. That includes time at PSA, which was the cookie cutter from which Southwest was cloned.

I think what any company "owes" any employees is simple respect for their efforts, and for themselves as people..period. When that's established; all else generally follows well.

Taking from another "work enviornment" = If a given military squadron's suffering morale problems, or efficiency issues...you don't look to the ranks to find the problem, but rather, the command staff...period. Lead well, (versus "manage") and people will follow. It's really that simple.

PSA was awesome - no question.

You earn respect - it is not owed to you/me/anybody.

If there is a problem in the squadron then yes, I would look to the squadron.....if the problem is the policy set forth by the Brass - then I would take it up with them.

You can lead the horse to the water but you can't make them drink.....WE need to take some ownership in this airline, we can't blame everything that goes wrong on management.

 

[ItsJustAJob]

"That said, Mr. Parker is quoted thusly in the WSJ article.

On the "east side" of the company -- the original US Airways -- every pilot is at the top of the pay scale."

Are you kidding me? If that is the case, a lot paychecks have been a bit on the 'underpaid" side. That is, unless top of scale is now 8 years.

Is someone feeding the boss false information?

 

[Travelpro72]

So I must ask, after all the pay cuts what is the topped out f/a's pay or pilots pay on the east compared to the rest of the industry (legacy carriers/WN)? Mmmmmm hmmmmm blame it on the "disgruntled", "topped out" employees? I think not.

 

[ussnark]

True, but they aren't trying to shrink to profitability either.

SWA tries city pairs, then, sometimes, shrinks, all the time. They are always experimenting, always adapting, even shrinking market share to increase profitability. It is instructive to me that you, among many others, apparently, do not understand such. That is not a criticism at all and I hope you take it in the manner in which it is meant.

US/HP could emulate such behavior, but, apparently, chooses not to. US/HP, instead, chooses to latch onto legacy operations, justifying future losses by saying that it "worked in the past", like as if time will magically reassert the past. PSA employees saw that scenario when US bought PSA, so, it is easy to identify similar behavior yet again.

An agile workforce demands trust and integrity from management. It will not happen otherwise.

 

[hp_fa]

I didn't take it as such.

My point is that Southwest is not trying to shrink their entire airline. They may tweak with city pairs, but they aren't shrinking so that is the difference I was trying to make. The following shows their fleet size for 2005-2008.

Southwest Airlines Company (LUV) 445 481 520 537