The TWU Conssesions History

[1AA]

AMFA took over in 2003 and in six years lost another 3,000 AMT jobs. So in three years AMFA did nothing but collect dues and don't forget the $200K UA paid AMFA to "listen" to merger plans and another $75K to hire a UAL recommended consultant on their outsourcing plans. Nice.

Maybe so but AMFA represented AMT's have better pay and benefits. They must be doing something right PHAT Don.

 

[1AA]

here's the difference TWU lover....the TWU represented dispatchers, F/A's, MCT's, and Sim Tech's negotiate their own deals. They don't have a mix of FSC, Title I, and Title II included with them. The AMT profession has NEVER negotiated alone....we've always had to be bunched in with non-amt clowns. Even FSC negotiates alone. At AMFA, it's strictly M&R. And, let's get something straight....I'm not an AMFA clone. I stand up for the AMT profession because it's unions like the TWU and IAM that have diminished the craft. Industrialized unions believe all members have equal weight....not true in professional organizations. APA, AFA, and even AMFA consider themselves a professional organization and they negotiate on the principles that they represent professionals. That's why they can demand high wages. Believe it or not...they act professional, and they look and work like professionals. They don't act or look like clowns around management. That speaks volumes.

And that is why AMFA represented AMT's have better wages and benefits than TWU represented AMT's.

 

[lineguy43]

here's the difference TWU lover....the TWU represented dispatchers, F/A's, MCT's, and Sim Tech's negotiate their own deals. They don't have a mix of FSC, Title I, and Title II included with them. The AMT profession has NEVER negotiated alone....we've always had to be bunched in with non-amt clowns. Even FSC negotiates alone. At AMFA, it's strictly M&R. And, let's get something straight....I'm not an AMFA clone. I stand up for the AMT profession because it's unions like the TWU and IAM that have diminished the craft. Industrialized unions believe all members have equal weight....not true in professional organizations. APA, AFA, and even AMFA consider themselves a professional organization and they negotiate on the principles that they represent professionals. That's why they can demand high wages. Believe it or not...they act professional, and they look and work like professionals. They don't act or look like clowns around management. That speaks volumes.

Best post yet!...This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. We as AMT's are already a large group add others in it and it's no wonder AMT's can't get squat. Like I said look at the dispatchers they make top dollar for a 5 to 6 week course they make more than AMT's. It's bad enough that the class and craft makes us take cleaners we are totally screwed. The industrial unions answer now is seperate districts or contracts but its all BS. They are only even going there cuz the mechanics are fed up like we were at NWA. I had issues with AMFA but they still beat any union out there for the AMT.

 

[Overspeed]

Maybe so but AMFA represented AMT's have better pay and benefits. They must be doing something right PHAT Don.

If only having 2.75 AMTs per aircraft is what you define as success. AA will be at 15.5 AMTs per aircraft after the changes are fully implemented in 2013. The gap to get to $42 from $33 here at AA is 12.75 AMTs per aircraft or 6,000 Title I and II jobs outsourced. I'll survive the cut on midnights with Tu/We...how about you?

Don't worry 1AA, I voted yes just so I could keep hearing your baseless arguments and whining while not really understanding how close you were to waiting in line for government cheese.

 

[Overspeed]

Best post yet!...This is EXACTLY what I have been saying. We as AMT's are already a large group add others in it and it's no wonder AMT's can't get squat. Like I said look at the dispatchers they make top dollar for a 5 to 6 week course they make more than AMT's. It's bad enough that the class and craft makes us take cleaners we are totally screwed. The industrial unions answer now is seperate districts or contracts but its all BS. They are only even going there cuz the mechanics are fed up like we were at NWA. I had issues with AMFA but they still beat any union out there for the AMT.

Most misinformed pots yet. First off AMTs are not in their own class and craft. Title I and II are in the same class and craft and you can't break them up. You won't get that with AMFA, they represent GSE as well and negotiate with them together. M&R has negotiated separately from FSC/TIII since 2001 so they aren't "holding you back."

So if you want to say you are screwed because you are with Title II, its not the TWU that did that. It's the NMB.

 

[Anomaly]

here's the difference TWU lover....the TWU represented dispatchers, F/A's, MCT's, and Sim Tech's negotiate their own deals. They don't have a mix of FSC, Title I, and Title II included with them. The AMT profession has NEVER negotiated alone....we've always had to be bunched in with non-amt clowns. Even FSC negotiates alone. At AMFA, it's strictly M&R. And, let's get something straight....I'm not an AMFA clone. I stand up for the AMT profession because it's unions like the TWU and IAM that have diminished the craft. Industrialized unions believe all members have equal weight....not true in professional organizations. APA, AFA, and even AMFA consider themselves a professional organization and they negotiate on the principles that they represent professionals. That's why they can demand high wages. Believe it or not...they act professional, and they look and work like professionals. They don't act or look like clowns around management. That speaks volumes.

Strikeforce, what you say was part of the ingredients of the amfa Kool-aid we drank at UAL. This begs the question, are you now an AMFA member? Are you in fact represented by amfa?

The biggest problem with amfa is that AMFA is not present in any of these debate issues. The amfa idea is all dependent on hype from those of you who have never been a part of amfa. You all preach the ideas you want to come true and you are all herded by the very few loyalist who are still wanting to gain some sort of personal position. Unfortunately, anything said by any amfa supporter on any subject is so easily accepted as gospel from those willing to accept any lie presented to them, and so easily denied by the AMFA leadership. AMFA international will not intervene in these forums directly or even on their own web sites because it would constitute a commitment to what was promised. AMFA would much rather have loyalist make any amount of promises rather than have the organization made responsible. They can simply deny the promise later.

Please think for yourselves.

Consider this. AMFA does not mirror any of these positive comments from this blog site on their website. The Teamsters do.

http://www.teamster.org/aamx

The Teamsters are willing to post the issues on a web site and attach their name with an address for follow up questions. AMFA has not officially entered in to the arena,

http://amfanational....page=Organizing

There are no organizers to contradict or ask questions, nor are there staff to help resolve differences or suggest solutions to controversy. Are you all willing to trust your futures with anonymous contributions from those who have something to gain?? amfa has no organizing committee. This is the most basic part of any union wishing to survive past the end of the dues cycle. The amfa supporters will say anything needed to gain your support. The truth for them is a distant distraction.

Do you truly want to trust an association that will not come forward? One that relies only on the comments from those who who are not yet members?

Be careful

 

[lineguy43]

Most misinformed pots yet. First off AMTs are not in their own class and craft. Title I and II are in the same class and craft and you can't break them up. You won't get that with AMFA, they represent GSE as well and negotiate with them together. M&R has negotiated separately from FSC/TIII since 2001 so they aren't "holding you back."

So if you want to say you are screwed because you are with Title II, its not the TWU that did that. It's the NMB.

Yep and it was the industrial unions like the Iam that pushed for AMT's to be classified that way. Like I said it's bad enough we as a group are very large add to that everyone else. I have seen a lot in my 26+ yrs as an AMT and belonging to 2 unions. Just proves to me that non-union is the best thing an AMT can have now..The unions have totally decimated the AMT craft. If I have to choose a union it would still be AMFA. The others NO WAY.

 

[lineguy43]

Strikeforce, what you say was part of the ingredients of the amfa Kool-aid we drank at UAL. This begs the question, are you an AMFA member at this current ime? Are you in fact represented by amfa?

The biggest problem with amfa is that AMFA is not present in any of these debate issues. The amfa idea is all dependent on hype from those of you who have never been a part of amfa. You all preach the ideas you HOPE will come true and are herded by the very few loyalist who are still wanting to gain. Unfortunately, anything said by any amfa supporter on any subject is so easily accepted as gospel from those willing to accept any lie presented to them.

Please think for yourselves.
Consider this. AMFA does not mirror any of these positive comments from this blog site on their website. The Teamsters do. The Teamsters are willing to post the issues on a web site and attach their name with an address for follow up questions. AMFA has not officially entered in to the arena, There are no organizers to debate or ask questions, nor are there staff to help resolve differences or suggest solutions to controversy. Are you all willing to trust your futures with anonymous contributions from those who have something to gain?? amfa has no organizing committee. This is the most basic part of any union wishing to survive past the end of the dues cycle. The amfa supporters will say anything needed to gain your support. The truth is a distant distraction.

Be careful

The Teamsters or Reamsters...Hoffa flew on NWA during my strike in 2005 I don't care if you do not like AMFA you DO NOT patronize a company that is on a legal active strike PERIOD!!!. Add to that my friends at UAL said the reamsters are the worst yet out of all the unions they have had to date. When the reamsters were trying to organize FX when they trying to get enough people to sign cards they sent a flunky to my house..He was a UPS truck driver. I asked him what do you know about my job and what makes you think they would be better for me? He couldn't answer me cuz like the Iam they have unskilled people dictating whats best for me and my craft. ..Nope the Ibt can go pound it.

 

[Anomaly]

Yep and it was the industrial unions like the Iam that pushed for AMT's to be classified that way. Like I said it's bad enough we as a group are very large add to that everyone else. I have seen a lot in my 26+ yrs as an AMT and belonging to 2 unions. Just proves to me that non-union is the best thing an AMT can have now..The unions have totally decimated the AMT craft. If I have to choose a union it would still be AMFA. The others NO WAY.

I am no fan of the IAM, but you are surely stretching the truth to suggest they had anything to do with the Craft and Class category. What is your evidence that the IAM caused this classification description? I have found nothing to support your implementation.

 

[Anomaly]

The Teamsters or Reamsters...Hoffa flew on NWA during my strike in 2005 I don't care if you do not like AMFA you DO NOT patronize a company that is on a legal active strike PERIOD!!!. Add to that my friends at UAL said the reamsters are the worst yet out of all the unions they have had to date. When the reamsters were trying to organize FX when they trying to get enough people to sign cards they sent a flunky to my house..He was a UPS truck driver. I asked him what do you know about my job and what makes you think they would be better for me? He couldn't answer me cuz like the Iam they have unskilled people dictating whats best for me and my craft. ..Nope the Ibt can go pound it.

You are an incredibly shallow man if this is all you can come up with. It is OK to dislike the Teamsters, or any union. But why make up stories? Is Hoffa sitting on a NWA seat during a strike really the only thing that is preventing your support?

Come on dude......

 

[Overspeed]

OS , Reality Check etc.

There are certain facts that can not be disputed here.
1-Of all the major carriers we are the lowest paid as far as total compensation.
2-We get half the Holidays and less than 25% of what many of our peers get. All told our Holiday package adds at the most 20 hours of pay to our annual pay instead of up to 100 hours pay.
3- We get the least amount of Paid Vacation, over a 40 year career we would work an addition 50 weeks, essentially a year for free compared to our peers.
4-We get the least amount of sick time

Yes AA employs more mechanics than any other airline but is it really a Union value to sacrifice everything for volume? Doesn't the argument that its better to have twice as many people working for half the wages fly in the face of everything Unions fought for? Unions have always rejected the argument because what that eventually morphs into is half as many people working twice as many hours. One of the major goals of the Labor movement has always been less hours worked, not more. You even admit that by 2017 AA will have fewer mechanics than UAL. What is your vision of the future if we stay with this strategy? Why wouldn't the company threaten to outsource OH in 2018 and get the same result? How low are you willing to vote YES for and when a member in NY, LAX or MIA asks why they are paying nearly $700 to belong to the TWU, what does he get in retrurn, what is your answer?

These are the facts too;
1- You recommended we vote down a TA that would have paid us $38 or number two highest paid because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
2 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have restored three holidays because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
3 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have have restored VC and added PTO days because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
4 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have given us full pay SK pay for all days and increased SK time accrual because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition

So finally you admit your plan Bob, give up jobs to pay for your wage increases on the line. You really do hate overhaul. Yes AMT headcount will drop beyond 2,000 but that will take time because that is due to new fleet types not needing an overhaul for a while. That headcount reduction would happen under any CBA. But only under the TWU CBA is 65% of that new maintenance spend contractually mandated to brought in-house.

Bob, those overhaul guys you want to get laid off also pay dues. In your world you will represent them by having them laid off. "Give me your dues now get lost." Nice.

 

[Anomaly]

These are the facts too;
1- You recommended we vote down a TA that would have paid us $38 or number two highest paid because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
2 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have restored three holidays because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
3 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have have restored VC and added PTO days because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition
4 - You recommended we vote down a TA that would have given us full pay SK pay for all days and increased SK time accrual because we were going to fight for more and that BK was a scare tactic - EPIC FAIL by the vote no coalition

So finally you admit your plan Bob, give up jobs to pay for your wage increases on the line. You really do hate overhaul. Yes AMT headcount will drop beyond 2,000 but that will take time because that is due to new fleet types not needing an overhaul for a while. That headcount reduction would happen under any CBA. But only under the TWU CBA is 65% of that new maintenance spend contractually mandated to brought in-house.

Bob, those overhaul guys you want to get laid off also pay dues. In your world you will represent them by having them laid off. "Give me your dues now get lost." Nice.

Overspeed, with a great deal of respect to you; It is my conclusion that Bob Owens is a man who is an elected representative of one union in support of another. Am I correct?

If so, why waste your time. Your contributions are solid and beneficial, but I have a hard time dealing with such hypocrisy. Just my two cents. I appreciate all your posts and hope you keep up the good work.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You are an incredibly shallow man if this is all you can come up with. It is OK to dislike the Teamsters, or any union. But why make up stories? Is Hoffa sitting on a NWA seat during a strike really the only thing that is preventing your support?

Come on dude......

So are you denying that it happened or suggesting that even if it did, its not an issue worthy of scorning the teamsters organization?

 

[Anomaly]

So are you denying that it happened or suggesting that even if it did, its not an issue worthy of scorning the teamsters organization?

Cry me a river

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Cry me a river

Yeah, thats what I thought.