So why is it that AMFA represented AMT's benefits and pay are better than TWU represented AMT's? Strength in numbers and money obviously do not facture in to your reasoning. Answer that one PHAT boy.
The TWU Conssesions History
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So why is it that AMFA represented AMT's benefits and pay are better than TWU represented AMT's? Strength in numbers and money obviously do not facture in to your reasoning. Answer that one PHAT boy.
I'll leave the distorting up to you, you are much better at it. I'll stick to just putting it out there. I noticed how you just stated that another Union lost 3000 members since 2003, well how much did we lose since 2003? Over 5000?
Majority of new fleet work? No majority of Fleet spend, that may or may not translate into more work and that "work" includes line maintenance. Nowhere does it say the majority of OH work will be done in house, in fact it doesn't say the majority of work will be done in house, it says the majority of spend, and includes language that allows them to decrease the percentage of in house spend. In negotiations Burdette worded his reply carefully, he said that AA mechanics will work under aircraft flying under the AA certificate. He did not say that AA mechanics would do all the work, or the OH. So if AA mechanics on the line work the 787 or the Airbus they have kept their word, even if they outsource all the AO. The fact is capacity is tight for NB OH in the MRO world. MRO's are having trouble recruiting and retaining workers. This fact has been the subject of several articles in trade publications over the last few years. So the victory you claim is but a hollow one. We won the work they couldn't send out anyway. Its not really our language, which is full of holes, that protects us its capacity.
Really, why are we at the bottom? Because guys like you voted YES thats why, spin away OS at least you have the right alias!
If you continued reading it states The Reason for Cost Changes: There are two basic reasons for the need for cost reductions at the M&R Locals (Rescinding of Baker Letter and Reduction in Headcount)
Not a problem Bob, you just jumped to a conclusion, as usual.
Ok, so cost is a reason, if we eliminate that then what are the other reasons cited?
He stated the principal reason, then identified costs, other than cost what are the reasons for liquidating Five Locals, who it just so happens all pushed for a NO vote?
I have one, but it wasn't in the letter. RETALIATION.
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I will say it again. AMFA did not lose jobs for the difference of 18k to 3k in members. The change in these numbers are due to union elections not job losses in the industry. And yes most was due to the change of unions that UAL voted for not job loses. An election took place. Not job loses. You can twist it all you want, evryone knows that AMFA has lost members to union elections do to lies and promices from the ibt at UAL.
Anomaly
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No. Most of the UAL stuff was gone under the IAM. The AMFA had its hands tied.
question...Why don't you post all the fails from the AFL-CIO unions? I gave you the first one.....(or you wont because that kinda kills your point.)
and I'm sure the TWU was real quick to shut down the job fairs.
Most but not all. amfa language allowed for foreign outsourcing.
OS , Reality Check etc.
There are certain facts that can not be disputed here.
1-Of all the major carriers we are the lowest paid as far as total compensation.
2-We get half the Holidays and less than 25% of what many of our peers get. All told our Holiday package adds at the most 20 hours of pay to our annual pay instead of up to 100 hours pay.
3- We get the least amount of Paid Vacation, over a 40 year career we would work an addition 50 weeks, essentially a year for free compared to our peers.
4-We get the least amount of sick time
Yes AA employs more mechanics than any other airline but is it really a Union value to sacrifice everything for volume? Doesn't the argument that its better to have twice as many people working for half the wages fly in the face of everything Unions fought for? Unions have always rejected the argument because what that eventually morphs into is half as many people working twice as many hours. One of the major goals of the Labor movement has always been less hours worked, not more. You even admit that by 2017 AA will have fewer mechanics than UAL. What is your vision of the future if we stay with this strategy? Why wouldn't the company threaten to outsource OH in 2018 and get the same result? How low are you willing to vote YES for and when a member in NY, LAX or MIA asks why they are paying nearly $700 to belong to the TWU, what does he get in retrurn, what is your answer?
There are certain facts that can not be disputed here.
1-Of all the major carriers we are the lowest paid as far as total compensation.
2-We get half the Holidays and less than 25% of what many of our peers get. All told our Holiday package adds at the most 20 hours of pay to our annual pay instead of up to 100 hours pay.
3- We get the least amount of Paid Vacation, over a 40 year career we would work an addition 50 weeks, essentially a year for free compared to our peers.
4-We get the least amount of sick time
Yes AA employs more mechanics than any other airline but is it really a Union value to sacrifice everything for volume? Doesn't the argument that its better to have twice as many people working for half the wages fly in the face of everything Unions fought for? Unions have always rejected the argument because what that eventually morphs into is half as many people working twice as many hours. One of the major goals of the Labor movement has always been less hours worked, not more. You even admit that by 2017 AA will have fewer mechanics than UAL. What is your vision of the future if we stay with this strategy? Why wouldn't the company threaten to outsource OH in 2018 and get the same result? How low are you willing to vote YES for and when a member in NY, LAX or MIA asks why they are paying nearly $700 to belong to the TWU, what does he get in retrurn, what is your answer?
AMFA has demonstrated multiple times that its strengths include demanding (and obtaining) industry-leading compensation. The worthless union has demonstrated multiple times that its strength lies in preserving as many jobs as possible.
IMO, the union to which you belong has no real ability to do anything about your employer's decision to outsource maintenance and reduce headcount. Any union stooge (like those from the IBT or TWU) who disagrees is delusional and lying, IMO. Unions can't prevent a company from employing fewer people. Effective unions can negotiate pay and benefits for the workers on the property, but once the union views its primary mission as "saving jobs," then everything goes out the window (including your pay). For many years, AA's planes have been maintained to high, safe standards by thousands of inhouse AMTs (and the lower-paid helpers). Along with that came the highest maintenance costs in the industry (WT will confirm - the DOT stats don't lie). Unfortunately for the AA mechanics, that all came at a price - substandard wages and benefits as WN's wages continued to grow, distancing themselves from AA's wages and benefits. Yes, WN has three (soon to be four) lines of heavy maintenance inhouse, along with 16-20 lines of heavy maintenance that are outsourced (four to SAL and the rest to domestic MROs).
IMO, the union to which you belong has no real ability to do anything about your employer's decision to outsource maintenance and reduce headcount. Any union stooge (like those from the IBT or TWU) who disagrees is delusional and lying, IMO. Unions can't prevent a company from employing fewer people. Effective unions can negotiate pay and benefits for the workers on the property, but once the union views its primary mission as "saving jobs," then everything goes out the window (including your pay). For many years, AA's planes have been maintained to high, safe standards by thousands of inhouse AMTs (and the lower-paid helpers). Along with that came the highest maintenance costs in the industry (WT will confirm - the DOT stats don't lie). Unfortunately for the AA mechanics, that all came at a price - substandard wages and benefits as WN's wages continued to grow, distancing themselves from AA's wages and benefits. Yes, WN has three (soon to be four) lines of heavy maintenance inhouse, along with 16-20 lines of heavy maintenance that are outsourced (four to SAL and the rest to domestic MROs).
Anomaly
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As far as I can determine and anyone has posted, amfa has one industry leading contract ONLY, To be fair, this same group lead the industry in wages even before becoming amfa.
You said amfa did this multiple times. Which other groups represented by amfa were or are at the top of the pay scale?
strikeforce
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Does it really matter? The argument has always been to compare wages and benefits amongst competitors......legacy carriers simply refuse to include WN in their comparisons.....even in the mid-term adjustment WN is not one the carriers AA used in adjusting the AMT wage. Why is that? The bigger question is why did the unions agree not to include WN? I guess the legacy carriers don't believe WN is a major competitor....until WN comes into your house. The bottom line is...everyone is jealous that AMFA can demand and are able to negotiate wages and benefits that industrial unions, like the TWU & IAM, can't!! Their negotiators are simply better at working with management in getting their members top wages and benefits. The TWU is great at working with management to screw their members.....but, that's been pretty typical of the AFL-CIO unions in the aviation industry.
You AMFA clones are a joke. I hope you realize the TWU has represented SWA's Flight Attendants for many years. The TWU also represents the thousands of Ramp Agents, and the Dispatcher Group. So don't fall all over yourselves bragging about AMFA's accomplishments (based on a takeover of an IBT agreement). TWU has accomplished more than you have and they didn't have to outsource anything to do it. No one will deny SWA management is different than that at all other major carriers. How that will work with their new head of HR remains to be seen.
strikeforce
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here's the difference TWU lover....the TWU represented dispatchers, F/A's, MCT's, and Sim Tech's negotiate their own deals. They don't have a mix of FSC, Title I, and Title II included with them. The AMT profession has NEVER negotiated alone....we've always had to be bunched in with non-amt clowns. Even FSC negotiates alone. At AMFA, it's strictly M&R. And, let's get something straight....I'm not an AMFA clone. I stand up for the AMT profession because it's unions like the TWU and IAM that have diminished the craft. Industrialized unions believe all members have equal weight....not true in professional organizations. APA, AFA, and even AMFA consider themselves a professional organization and they negotiate on the principles that they represent professionals. That's why they can demand high wages. Believe it or not...they act professional, and they look and work like professionals. They don't act or look like clowns around management. That speaks volumes.
Bob: You certainly have a habit of ignoring the role you and your cohorts played in getting the 2010 T/A rejected. Your "just say NO" mantra succeeded in convincing the membership to reject a contract that was much better than what we have today. Apparently your "keep saying No will get you a better deal" even if the Judge abrogates our contract and imposes the term sheet didn't work out quite the way you prophesied . You've proven you don't know what you're talking about, and the majority of members know it. Get over your vendetta for being removed from office.
strikeforce
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Blame Bob all you want, but he was right that if you reject the T/A, the judge would abrogate. He was also right in that if you and the other YES voters would just do your job, like the pilots did, and stay unified, maybe you would also get a second bite at the apple, like the pilots just did . Instead, you got slammed by voting YES, and now you, OS, and others want to keep blaming Bob. Get over it.....you now have to wait 6 years pal!
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