Thb And Ward Debate

[MiAAmi]

Do you really think recall rights for an additional 5 years would be worth us giving up another $7 million? And that was with no guarantee that they would ever call anyone back.

 

[skivoodoo]

Miaami,

Considering the working f/a's are benefitting from Ward taking away OUR furlough pay, your question is easily answered. The FURLOUGHEES paid more than $7Million already. It's a no-brainer. We should have received an extension of recall because our furlough pay was worth SO much more than that! And the entire RPA was worth MUCH more than Ward knew!

Ski

 

[MiAAmi]

What you would be asking everyone to do is take an additional paycut worth $7 million for no guarantee that you would ever be recalled. Remember at the time we were close to BK. The odds were that there could have been additional furloughs rather than recalls. I would not expect the majority to take even more of a paycut to save my job. Please tell me what your furlough pay would amount to since this seems to be such a big issue for the furloughees.

 

[L1011Ret]

Your line of reasoning is quite illogical. Based on your idea that the furloughees should not have to make your paycut any larger, then how can you justify taking the furlough pay to make your paycut smaller? Is this a union, a sort of brotherhood, or a sort of selfish group entitled to abuse others who may not even have the necessary monies to pay their rent while they seek other employment? The furloughed are not the only ones enraged by APFA's behavior in using furlough pay to support those still on the payroll. The Judge hearing the TWAers complaint in the Injunction case was quite upset with this too. There are posts elsewhere that suggest APFA's behavior in this situation borders on the criminal and that APFA no longer meets the criteria to call itself a labor union.

 

[FA Mikey]

Exactly how does keeping a recall list and offer of re-employment translate into 7million dollars?

 

[MiAAmi]

Exactly how does keeping a recall list and offer of re-employment translate into 7million dollars?

Exactly Mikey! Just another attempt by management to squeeze out more money from our contract.

 

[MiAAmi]

Does anyone have the numbers for what furlough pay would have been? This will help us judge the situation better.

 

[FA Mikey]

That is something that should never have been put out. Even if jw had proposed it AA should never have let all these people go and with out a dime to get by on for the short term.

 

[MiAAmi]

That is something that should never have been put out. Even if jw had proposed it AA should never have let all these people go and with out a dime to get by on for the short term.

Were you willing to take a deeper cut in your pay to cover furlough pay? By the way all furloughed f/a's were eligible for unemployment, even though its not equal to 100% of their lost wages it is more than a dime.

 

[L1011Ret]

I cannot tell you how they costed out the value of $7 million. That number may not be perfectly accurate, it is what I remember hearing. The numbers are in the testimony posted somewhere. That number was put out by the AA Director of Labor Relations. Extending pilot recall rights was considered "cost neutral" according to her testimony. Obviously it is more than just keeping a list that that AA had to do anyway. Ward did not dispute the number. Perhaps more damaging was Ward's efforts to take away furlough pay from those furloughed two and three months earlier. AA rightly refused to do so. It was rather evident Ward was trying to maximize the pain to both AA and TWA F/As about to be furloughed. If my memory serves me correctly, some of this resulted in collective gasps from the attendees that the Judge had to silence. Seniority aside, members of any union treated this way would have resulted in rage.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Exactly how does keeping a recall list and offer of re-employment translate into 7million dollars?

Recalling people higher up on the pay scale is more expensive than recalling lower paid employees, and the company probably figures that's so even with the cost of training new people.

MK

 

[kirkpatrick]

Does anyone have the numbers for what furlough pay would have been? This will help us judge the situation better.

Page 186 of the contract. 4 years or more gets you 2 month's pay, which for those of us at the top of the pay scale is 5978.

MK

 

[kirkpatrick]

By the way all furloughed f/a's were eligible for unemployment, even though its not equal to 100% of their lost wages it is more than a dime.

Not much. As a further slap in the face, the TWA people, whose bases were closed after 9/11, had been out of their home states for 18 months and had to collect unemployment in Missouri, which only pays 250 per wk. By contrast, my home state of NY, where I pay taxes, pays $405 per wk. The difference of $155 per wk comes out to $4030 for the 26 wk term.

Those of us furloughed late also got no extension of unemployment benefits, as did some of those furloughed earlier.

MK

 

[FA Mikey]

Recalling people higher up on the pay scale is more expensive than recalling lower paid employees, and the company probably figures that's so even with the cost of training new people.

MK

Let me tell you a little story about AA. When figuring cost of new routes and such F/A cost or crew pay is now longer and for some time now is not part of the equation. Grounds service contract and station operation as well a/c and pilot costs are figured in. I think the idea that AA has this thing about A scale people coming back in is something more in OUR heads than in THEIR big scheme of things.

 

[silverbirdFLL]

I herby detirmin that this thread is now MOOT on the basis of the following facts:

1)John Ward is an in compitant jack a$$!
2) " " was ill prepaired for the job for which he was elected to do!
3)Tommie Huto-Blake is by far more qualified to be APFA president then John Ward just because I say so.
4)I am thankfull to have a job yes but I am personally BK because of the events of April 15-16,2003 and the less then 2 weeks lead time to adjust to a 20% adjustmant DOWNWARD in my lifestyle that at 14-15yr 2001 contract pay leavls I would not have thought possible!!
5)JW does have it out for any AA f/a's that had worked for Trans World Airlines,Inc.
6) We have covered all this $^!t before so after 5 pages I think it's enough already.
Ane finally B) Nobody died and made me God however I feel that in her absense I should fill her shoes and take this bold step and speak up.
Let's start a new thread and name it "John Ward,jack a$$ or just plain stupid?"
Peace
SB.
Ps-I predict a landslide infavor of THB but the turnout will be low.