Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[swamt]

So we are clear, and you do not assume I am twisting your words or sticking anything in to your mouth, I included my original post to this subject above.

You answered NOOOO, but then you confused the issue by adding the first question which deserves more than a yes or no. You did not answer my question.

Lets try again.

In 2004, WN had made a profit of more than $300 Million, ordered dozens of new aircraft and enjoyed fuel savings it was able to reinvest which totaled more than $450 million. Did amfa explain all this to the members? YES or NO



Again, my original post to this next subject above and your rebuttal below




Again with your insertions. I never mentioned anything about VOLUNTARY anything. I simply stated what we all know to be true.

IF THE COMPANY DOES NOT REPLACE THOSE THAT LEAVE, AND SENDS THE WORK TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, IT IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN A FURLOUGH.

Is that clear enough for you?

Hey dum-a$$, this question you so desperately want me to answer is not your first question in the fist post you listed by yourself, it is in fact #3 question. The answer is NO. AMFA did not have to explain to us that 9-11 just happened, or what profits our co made, or how many aircraft we bought, or how much our officers and management team made that same year, blah,blah, blah we were all very well informed of what was going on at our co. Not saying the co didn't. But AMFA didn't have to ya know. We were already talking about everything you mentioned and even more on the floor. And god forbid if you were to find out about the "more" stuff.

In all that crap you posted above you were correct about one thing and only one thing, I did forget to answer your 3rd question, not your first. Keep posting brother, it makes you look better and better brother...

 

[swamt]

I lead them on for about ten minutes then I let them have it, told them that AFW is 75% AMFA, and all the line stations are AMFA also, and that they were waisting their time. It seamed like the UA mechanic understood with what I was saying.

Understand and thx.

 

[1AA]

It amazes me that AMFA a small little union with no money, no members, no representation, no political clout is such a BIG THREAT to the TWU, IBT and IAM.
Looks like little ole AMFA struck a nerve. Now that is funny. You TWU clowns and the rest of you industrial catch all unions can just keep on yapping your traps with lies and deception. The more crap you talk the more cards get signed. First you shove this LBO down our throats then you take away the line station locals. You just can not make this stuff up. Keep up the great campaigning for AMFA. It really works when you shove your foot in your mouth. Can not wait for the next bone head move you guys in the International are going to make. Hopefully it will be a winner so we can wrap up this drive and move on without the TWU forever.

 

[Anomaly]

It amazes me that AMFA a small little union with no money, no members, no representation, no political clout is such a BIG THREAT to the TWU, IBT and IAM.
Looks like little ole AMFA struck a nerve. Now that is funny. You TWU clowns and the rest of you industrial catch all unions can just keep on yapping your traps with lies and deception. The more crap you talk the more cards get signed. First you shove this LBO down our throats then you take away the line station locals. You just can not make this stuff up. Keep up the great campaigning for AMFA. It really works when you shove your foot in your mouth. Can not wait for the next bone head move you guys in the International are going to make. Hopefully it will be a winner so we can wrap up this drive and move on without the TWU forever.

Very good point. It is not amfa, it is the appeal of an association made up in the minds of all it's would be members. In other words, the amfa that all of you are arguing for simply does not exist. It could not. No union or association could live up to all the hype brought about by member supporters who simply refuse to accept the obvious, or non members who hopefully will never know the disappointments of amfa. You all make this stuff up.

amfa did not strike a nerve, your imagination did. Just a heads up....amfa will never live up to the exaggerated reputation. Jobs will pay for that realization.

 

[Anomaly]

Your a dumbass, good night

And it took you ten minutes to think of that????

 

[TWU informer]

Very good point. It is not amfa, it is the appeal of an association made up in the minds of all it's would be members. In other words, the amfa that all of you are arguing for simply does not exist. It could not. No union or association could live up to all the hype brought about by member supporters who simply refuse to accept the obvious, or non members who hopefully will never know the disappointments of amfa. You all make this stuff up.

amfa did not strike a nerve, your imagination did. Just a heads up....amfa will never live up to the exaggerated reputation. Jobs will pay for that realization.

How about you lay out your detailed plan to reverse decimation of this profession?

I would love to hear your specifc and comprehensive plan.

Waiting.....

 

[swamt]

Very good point. It is not amfa, it is the appeal of an association made up in the minds of all it's would be members. In other words, the amfa that all of you are arguing for simply does not exist. It could not. No union or association could live up to all the hype brought about by member supporters who simply refuse to accept the obvious, or non members who hopefully will never know the disappointments of amfa. You all make this stuff up.

amfa did not strike a nerve, your imagination did. Just a heads up....amfa will never live up to the exaggerated reputation. Jobs will pay for that realization.

Jobs have already paid for the realization of the TWU and teamsters. With the TWU it will end up being about 7500-8500 jobs. This has already happened with the TWU. Not to mention the job losses in 2003 also. Stop trying to blame AMFA for what the TWU has already done for years, which is agree to job losses and pay cuts for the past decades...

 

[swamt]

How about you lay out your detailed plan to reverse decimation of this profession?

I would love to hear your specifc and comprehensive plan.

Waiting.....

Yea, we want to hear it. Pls endulge us with the teamsters plan for this, still waiting...

 

[Bob Owens]

IF THE COMPANY DOES NOT REPLACE THOSE THAT LEAVE, AND SENDS THE WORK TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, IT IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENT THAN A FURLOUGH.

Is that clear enough for you?

The difference is nobody got laid off. So from the workers or members perspective its very different.

But its obvious that you are not speaking from a workers perspective but rather a Business Unionist perspective.

For the business unionist Attrition where they do not backfill has the same effect as a furlough as far as dues revenue. So from the business unionists perspective it probably more profitable to allow the members to lose benefits, if the loss of those benefits will help maintain dues flow. Of course from the members perspective not so much.

As a worker I would rather see headcount reduced through attrition than give up benefits or PAY, even if it means the Union may no longer be able to provide perks to its employees that it fails to negotiate for their members.

 

[Bob Owens]

Again Anomaly, What did your union get it's members for the fist contract after 9-11? Was it an improvement? No. Was it an extension? Yes, "an extention of concessions". Was it concesionary? Yes it was.

Now, did AMFA's first contract after 9-11 provide improvements? Yes, we continued to receive raises for an extension of time. Was it an extension? Yes it was with raises. Was it concesionary? Hell no it was not. Plus, there was no lay-offs, rifs, or station reductions anywhere. Can you say that about your current union or the IBT? No, you cannot!!! Carry on sir.

In reality under the RLA all contracts are extensions of the current agreement.

When I hear people say that "All you guys did was extend the agreement you had before" I cant help but think what a pathetic arguement. If the extension has raises with no concessions at a time when everyone else is giving concessions then its a pretty good deal.

We renegotiated a large part of our contract in 2003, ALL CONCESSIONS. We were told that we would get it all back in 2006, we didnt even ask. Then we allowed the company to drag our negotiations for four years, and agreed to ask to be released the day AFTER they filed, we never did ask. Then we went back in and gave the company even more than they said they were f=going to ask for in their "Vermont Plan".

So the fact is is we had your contract, we would accept an "extension" as well. We accepted much, much worse.

 

[Overspeed]

The difference is nobody got laid off. So from the workers or members perspective its very different.

But its obvious that you are not speaking from a workers perspective but rather a Business Unionist perspective.

For the business unionist Attrition where they do not backfill has the same effect as a furlough as far as dues revenue. So from the business unionists perspective it probably more profitable to allow the members to lose benefits, if the loss of those benefits will help maintain dues flow. Of course from the members perspective not so much.

As a worker I would rather see headcount reduced through attrition than give up benefits or PAY, even if it means the Union may no longer be able to provide perks to its employees that it fails to negotiate for their members.

Getting to higher productivity through attrition would be ideal. WN didn't layoff any AMTs yes but they outsource at a higher rate than ever before. They pushed AMFA on increased outsourcing an AMFA blinked. AA is different in that we already have those jobs. Should we attrit out overhaul jobs over time and let AA outsource as we no longer have the staff? That would not be layoffs but it would be letting work go that we already have in-house. That is loss of union jobs currently held in the scope language. AMFA rolled at AS and WN any way you slice it.

Business unionist as opposed to what? Shouldn't we show that union workers provide the best quality work and that we should be paid the best? That would be increasing the value of union AMT labor. That means we must look at it from a business angle. Are you suggesting that they should just pay us more just because?

 

[Overspeed]

Well Twu guy why don't you talk against the IBT any thoughts on that??

Ah thought not so typical

The IBT has not held on to work either. I'm not an IBT supporter just look at UA and CO, both have very high levels of outsourcing. Yes they get paid more however in the May 2010 TA we would be paid more than them with 10% outsourcing. Now BK would have changed that but we would still be making $38.

The IBT at UA, CO, and UPS all outsource the majority of their overhaul. We would lose thousands of jobs under their agreements at AA. Bottom line, more jobs under the TWU agreement and of we had listened to the Int'l we would be number two from the top, not the bottom thanks to the vote no coalition and your local TWU-haters at AMFA, AMP, and the IBT organizers.

 

[odie01]

The IBT has not held on to work either. I'm not an IBT supporter just look at UA and CO, both have very high levels of outsourcing. Yes they get paid more however in the May 2010 TA we would be paid more than them with 10% outsourcing. Now BK would have changed that but we would still be making $38.

The IBT at UA, CO, and UPS all outsource the majority of their overhaul. We would lose thousands of jobs under their agreements at AA. Bottom line, more jobs under the TWU agreement and of we had listened to the Int'l we would be number two from the top, not the bottom thanks to the vote no coalition and your local TWU-haters at AMFA, AMP, and the IBT organizers.

Percentage wise, the local twu haters out number the supporters, if you take away Tulsa. We just need a few more cards in Tulsa and we're in, see ya twu

 

[swamt]

In reality under the RLA all contracts are extensions of the current agreement.

When I hear people say that "All you guys did was extend the agreement you had before" I cant help but think what a pathetic arguement. If the extension has raises with no concessions at a time when everyone else is giving concessions then its a pretty good deal.

We renegotiated a large part of our contract in 2003, ALL CONCESSIONS. We were told that we would get it all back in 2006, we didnt even ask. Then we allowed the company to drag our negotiations for four years, and agreed to ask to be released the day AFTER they filed, we never did ask. Then we went back in and gave the company even more than they said they were f=going to ask for in their "Vermont Plan".

So the fact is is we had your contract, we would accept an "extension" as well. We accepted much, much worse.

Correct Bob. I hear what you are saying. Anomaly, Realityck and Overspeed all needed to hear this from you instead of from all of us. Thx for chiming in on the subject.
On a side note Bob. I know we have had our differences in the past, but I really hope you and yours will regain any and all in the future. I mean this 100%. Good luck to you and all your brothers and sisters at AA...

 

[swamt]

Getting to higher productivity through attrition would be ideal. WN didn't layoff any AMTs yes but they outsource at a higher rate than ever before. They pushed AMFA on increased outsourcing an AMFA blinked. AA is different in that we already have those jobs. Should we attrit out overhaul jobs over time and let AA outsource as we no longer have the staff? That would not be layoffs but it would be letting work go that we already have in-house. That is loss of union jobs currently held in the scope language. AMFA rolled at AS and WN any way you slice it.

Business unionist as opposed to what? Shouldn't we show that union workers provide the best quality work and that we should be paid the best? That would be increasing the value of union AMT labor. That means we must look at it from a business angle. Are you suggesting that they should just pay us more just because?

SWA is not outsourcing at a higher rate than they were before. get your facts straight Overspeed. SWA has always been aprox 65-75% outsourcing. No more now than from the beginning. Nice try to twist things up...