Teamsters "raiding" TWU?

[ThirdSeatHero]

I did not blame the IAM nor amfa, for the loss. The Arbitrator did.

And yet another lie to cover previous lies.

This is from your post to AMFAinMIAMI concerning among other things the 20% arbitration. Note the underlining and emphasis are YOURS....

...At UAL we voted amfa in expecting that during our bankruptcy filing the membership sponsored association would protect us from outsourcing and lost benefits. We expected them to uphold the 20% outsourcing limit of our contract, but they failed. Of course, under amfa,we also lost our retirement benefits without a fight. Even after UAL switched to Teamsters, amfa reps were allowed and financed by the IBT to continue the argument for the 20% rule in arbitration. They were humiliated by the company, and lost again....

You are clearly blaming AMFA, and you are also just as clearly LYING when you claimed that AMFA reps were allowed and financed by the IBT to continue the argument for the 20% rule in arbitration. At the AMFA/ibt changeover, ibt legal took over.

Again from the ibts own summary....

http://teamsterssfo....ng_decision.pdf

...AMFA filed the underlying grievance in 2007 and aggressively pursued it. The IBT
assumed the grievance arbitration mid-stream when it replaced AMFA, and continued to aggressively litigate it. Indeed, one of the remarkable features about this grievance is that all of the members and all of the labor unions affected by and involved in this grievance arbitration worked cooperatively and in unison to enforce the 20% limitation...

You continue to claim you're here to offer the "truth" about the ibt at UAL, yet you are obviously so consumed in your desperate attempt to try and smear AMFA by any means possible, that you end up getting caught in your outright lies by the teamsters very own publications.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Yes. You are correct. Unfortunately amfa attorneys foolishly continued to present ridicules arguments to the courts which lead to the following court of appeals decision provided by you.

http://law.justia.co...2011-03-14.html

In the end, this helped pave the way by providing case law against employees by making it that much easier to loose our retirements and hand them over to the PBGC. But to the amfa attorneys, it is all about billable hours.

Complete and utter ignorance.

This little thread offshoot began when you lied and stated AMFA didn't fight for our pensions....

At UAL we voted amfa in expecting that during our bankruptcy filing the membership sponsored association would protect us from outsourcing and lost benefits. We expected them to uphold the 20% outsourcing limit of our contract, but they failed. Of course, under amfa,we also lost our retirement benefits without a fight. Even after UAL switched to Teamsters, amfa reps were allowed and financed by the IBT to continue the argument for the 20% rule in arbitration. They were humiliated by the company, and lost again.

Again you were proven a liar when I posted the link to the case against the PBGC.

Now in a ridiculous attempt to cover your lie, you claim AMFA foolishly continued to argue.

It would seem your lies are only exceeded by your ignorance.

ALL the unions at UAL lost their pensions....AMFA - ALPA - AFA - IAM -

The PBGC under law has the right to seize underfunded pesnion plans. They had this right prior to AMFAs filing and it is no more or less than they have after.

AMFA argued that the plan termination by the PBGC didn't follow meet the "reasonable notice" required by law. That was the subject of the case, period.

Your claims that AMFAs filing somehow made it "easier to lose our retirements" is just another lie.

 

[swamt]

Please keep posting Anomaly... LOL.

 

[Anomaly]

Complete and utter ignorance.

This little thread offshoot began when you lied and stated AMFA didn't fight for our pensions....



Again you were proven a liar when I posted the link to the case against the PBGC.

Now in a ridiculous attempt to cover your lie, you claim AMFA foolishly continued to argue.

It would seem your lies are only exceeded by your ignorance.

ALL the unions at UAL lost their pensions....AMFA - ALPA - AFA - IAM -

The PBGC under law has the right to seize underfunded pesnion plans. They had this right prior to AMFAs filing and it is no more or less than they have after.

AMFA argued that the plan termination by the PBGC didn't follow meet the "reasonable notice" required by law. That was the subject of the case, period.

Your claims that AMFAs filing somehow made it "easier to lose our retirements" is just another lie.

True, but the Teamsters were the ones who by all accounts first brought up the issue of the Mileage plus program to mechanics. The Pilots were pushing that argument, but rather than the BS the the amfa attorneys were trying to spin, why didn't they argue the wealth available to UA to save our pensions? The case is all there for anyone to look at. I guess to your simple mind, all who can read and think for themselves rather than drink your amfa kool aid are liars? Whatever brother Teamster.

 

[Anomaly]

Can someone plz answer why I would vote out the TWU and vote in the IBT without mentioning AMFA I have asked three times now but no answer all I read is AMFA bad. A non response answers plenty though

pssst.... the benefit of these threads is to get one to think for them self. Do your own research and figure it out. Or have another cup-o-amfa juice.

 

[Anomaly]

Please keep posting Anomaly... LOL.

http://www.blogsouthwest.com/news/southwest-airlines-and-amfa-mechanics-reach-tentative-agreement

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

Seriously!! Southwest is a profitable airline and the best you can get is a "cost neutral" agreement? Do you consider trading concessions for raises a lucrative contract? Is this what AA mechanics can expect from amfa? Is this what you want UA to go back to? Naaaaa. Keep em.

 

[iluvaa]

pssst.... the benefit of these threads is to get one to think for them self. Do your own research and figure it out. Or have another cup-o-amfa juice.

Thanks thats answer i expected. This whole drive is hate amfa not about replacing the twu. You are so predictable you write page after page of amfa "facts" but cant or wont give me a answer as to why i should chose the ibt over the twu

 

[Anomaly]

Thanks thats answer i expected. This whole drive is hate amfa not about replacing the twu. You are so predictable you write page after page of amfa "facts" but cant or wont give me a answer as to why i should chose the ibt over the twu

As it has been so commonly pointed out, I have no experience under the TWU. Your question was only asked so you can give this expected answer. In truth, I did not want to address it because I could not do so without a negative comment towards amfa. I suppose in the end, you stand correct. Most of my posts are bashing amfa. Most of the other posts from most of the other persons on this thread are about bashing the IBT or other "industrial" unions.

You got me. I once supported amfa, but now have no fondness at all for them. I am on this board to discredit the BS and unvalidated hype spread by wanna-be amfa supporters. So now that we have that out of the way.......

 

[bigjets]

http://www.blogsouth...ative-agreement

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

Seriously!! Southwest is a profitable airline and the best you can get is a "cost neutral" agreement? Do you consider trading concessions for raises a lucrative contract? Is this what AA mechanics can expect from amfa? Is this what you want UA to go back to? Naaaaa. Keep em.

I would gladly give work rule improvements for a raise, anything to put money in my pocket and keeping AA a viable company. The TWU coveted that 1/7th rule far to long, how much money did that cost ALL the mechs of AA over the years? By holding to BS rules that we wouldn't put up with in a company we owned, we drove ourselves to be the lowest paid mechs in the airline industry.

I've talked to SWA and Boeing mechs, they work their butt off, and get paid very well, but their unions don't have stifling union work rules that gives unions a bad name. Unfortunately we no longer have work rules or good pay, but in 3 years we get an average of the legacy airlines, which could be good or bad, depending on if Delta management decides to give a raise or take a concession from their mechs. Great negotiating TWU, at least the OSM's were taken care of. What other airline has OSM's?

Unions should only be concerned with pay, benefits, and working conditions. Cash fixes a lot of hard feelings, not making sure I don't get labor loaned to a line that needs extra mechs. or calling my c/c to get someone to BIT test a box because I'm not in avionics.

 

[swamt]

As it has been so commonly pointed out, I have no experience under the TWU. Your question was only asked so you can give this expected answer. In truth, I did not want to address it because I could not do so without a negative comment towards amfa. I suppose in the end, you stand correct. Most of my posts are bashing amfa. Most of the other posts from most of the other persons on this thread are about bashing the IBT or other "industrial" unions.

You got me. I once supported amfa, but now have no fondness at all for them. I am on this board to discredit the BS and unvalidated hype spread by wanna-be amfa supporters. So now that we have that out of the way.......

And your doing a great job for the ibt. Pls keep posting.

 

[swamt]

http://www.blogsouth...ative-agreement

DALLAS, Dec. 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines and the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) are proud to announce that the parties have reached a tentative agreement with a four-year term. The Company is pleased with this cost neutral contract which delivers raises in exchange for work rule improvements and contract flexibility. The current collective bargaining agreement became amendable on August 16, 2008.

Seriously!! Southwest is a profitable airline and the best you can get is a "cost neutral" agreement? Do you consider trading concessions for raises a lucrative contract? Is this what AA mechanics can expect from amfa? Is this what you want UA to go back to? Naaaaa. Keep em.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH IDIOT!!!

I never said this was a lucrative contract Anomaly. When and where did I ever say that this past contract was lucrative as you indicate that I have in your post?. You are a classic Anomaly. If you have been following from the beginning you would know that I was a "NO" vote on the last contract. And here you are AGAIN misrepresenting how I think about the last contract. I will never vote yes on a contract that will involve maint being performed outside of the US, as well as I will not vote yes for any maint to be removed from being done on SWA property--period. Keep posting, your doing a great job...

 

[Anomaly]

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH IDIOT!!!

I never said this was a lucrative contract Anomaly. When and where did I ever say that this past contract was lucrative as you indicate that I have in your post?. You are a classic Anomaly. If you have been following from the beginning you would know that I was a "NO" vote on the last contract. And here you are AGAIN misrepresenting how I think about the last contract. I will never vote yes on a contract that will involve maint being performed outside of the US, as well as I will not vote yes for any maint to be removed from being done on SWA property--period. Keep posting, your doing a great job...

Idiot?

The man who threw the first punch must have lost the argument.

I did what you asked and kept posting. Not necessarily to you, I just referenced a news article found from a PRO Southwest web site. I inserted nothing in to your mouth. That was not me.

The web site referenced an article that correctly suggested amfa was able to negotiate a cost neutral agreement with a profitable company. Now from other posts. I made it clear that this company is also well known for taking care of the employees in a better than adequate manner and does have a history of sharing the wealth.

But this is a telling example of how amfa negotiates. With a friendly and consistently profitable company that believes in putting it's employees first, the best amfa can get is a cost neutral agreement. How do you all think the association will negotiate against a hostile company like AA or US Air?

Like the last question you took exception to, this is not addressed to anyone in particular and is issued as a question, not a statement of fact. I am just posting. Anything else you need from me? No insertions, sorry. I don't swing that way.

 

[lineguy43]

Idiot?

The man who threw the first punch must have lost the argument.

I did what you asked and kept posting. Not necessarily to you, I just referenced a news article found from a PRO Southwest web site. I inserted nothing in to your mouth. That was not me.

The web site referenced an article that correctly suggested amfa was able to negotiate a cost neutral agreement with a profitable company. Now from other posts. I made it clear that this company is also well known for taking care of the employees in a better than adequate manner and does have a history of sharing the wealth.

But this is a telling example of how amfa negotiates. With a friendly and consistently profitable company that believes in putting it's employees first, the best amfa can get is a cost neutral agreement. How do you all think the association will negotiate against a hostile company like AA or US Air?

Like the last question you took exception to, this is not addressed to anyone in particular and is issued as a question, not a statement of fact. I am just posting. Anything else you need from me? No insertions, sorry. I don't swing that way.

Like Strikeforce so eloquently put it in another thread. AMFA is popular because they are the ONLY union that allows M@R to negotiate on their own. Unlike all the industrial unions that lump us as AMT's in to an already large group. If you don't think this argument has merit just look at dispatchers who the Twu can seem to get top dollar for but cannot get AMT's barely past food stamps.

 

[Overspeed]

Idiot?

The man who threw the first punch must have lost the argument.

I did what you asked and kept posting. Not necessarily to you, I just referenced a news article found from a PRO Southwest web site. I inserted nothing in to your mouth. That was not me.

The web site referenced an article that correctly suggested amfa was able to negotiate a cost neutral agreement with a profitable company. Now from other posts. I made it clear that this company is also well known for taking care of the employees in a better than adequate manner and does have a history of sharing the wealth.

But this is a telling example of how amfa negotiates. With a friendly and consistently profitable company that believes in putting it's employees first, the best amfa can get is a cost neutral agreement. How do you all think the association will negotiate against a hostile company like AA or US Air?

Like the last question you took exception to, this is not addressed to anyone in particular and is issued as a question, not a statement of fact. I am just posting. Anything else you need from me? No insertions, sorry. I don't swing that way.

And it's about to get tough at WN. They are going to have to show the negotiating balls they say they have real soon.

“We have a cost challenge, and it is one that looms large,” Kelly said, noting in particular that “our labor rates are now, far and away, the highest in the industry.” The restructured carriers emerged from bankruptcy with lower rates and better productivity than Southwest, which means the carrier will have to improve productivity and eliminate waste to “preserve” pay rates and benefits.

 

[Overspeed]

Like Strikeforce so eloquently put it in another thread. AMFA is popular because they are the ONLY union that allows M@R to negotiate on their own. Unlike all the industrial unions that lump us as AMT's in to an already large group. If you don't think this argument has merit just look at dispatchers who the Twu can seem to get top dollar for but cannot get AMT's barely past food stamps.

Not true. The TWU has been negotiating M&R separately since 2001.

The TWU negotiated $38 and hour back in May 2010 but it was voted down as not good enough even though it was higher than every one but WN. It also included more VC, all SK days at full pay, and three holidays back. The vote no coalition recommended a no vote and you listened. The TWU Dispatchers and MCTs listened to the Int'l and still have industry leading pay. Looks like you listened to the wrong people...again.