Teamsters filed at USAir for representation

[Real tired]

Perhaps if I had "negotiated" it you would be right. Voted against bringing it back and encouraged everyone to vote NO, 96% of the members from our Local did vote NO. Being at "negotiations" does not mean that you actually get to negotiate. In court both the Union and the company admitted that I really was not a part of Negotiations, only "low level discussions" right before they asked me to leave the courtroom. The contract lists us as "Witnesses".

Nice try and how did the IAM respond to our terrible deal?

They entered into a partnership with them to share their membership and jointly negotiate a deal. Combine the two worst deals in the industry and what do you end up with?

I'm sure that really is a source of inspiration for your guys. Do you think your mechanics even care about any of this? No, they already voted, at least 70% of the guys who will bother to vote have already filled out cards saying they want to try the union that got their members better deals than the IAM got them. Throwing mud cant cover up the huge pay disparity between the IAM contract and the IBT contracts out there. So go ahead and talk about the corrption, how they screwed over the FL guys who are looking at $45/hr and seven weeks vacation, a 9% 401K match (thats $4.05 and hour that goes into their personal portable account vs the $2/hr that goes into the IAM black hole plan), more Holidays, more sick time, and retiree medical. Those poor guys that the IBT abandoned will be pulling down over $100k while your guys are making less than $70K and if they decide to retire at 55 they can go work for another airline without any penalty if they want to.

Toast. The IAM is done. I already admitted I was wrong when I figured they didnt get enough cards, but once I heard they actually did things changed, the game is over. You got eight weeks to bring back what you could not achieve over the last eight years if the IAM is going to fend off the IBT.

When the company walked away from the table and started courting the unions at AA the IAM should have demanded to be released. Instead the IAM grumbled and sat in the corner. If they had secured a halfway decent contract prior to the merger announcement you probably would not be facing a vote. But they didnt. Now its over, they are done. The membership there already gave them eight years, a vote is scheduled to be sent out next month and counted in August. What are they going to do between now and August to change the minds of the 70% who are likely to vote IBT that they could not do over the last eight years?

I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Not that I am any IAM fan or anything, but you have to remember, we are a very beat down, apathetic group. I would doubt you will even see "70%" get off their rears and actually even vote. Even if it is over the telephone for one of the first times I can remember here at US.

Also remember, most of us are at least 50 year old and more, and looking retirement in the face. Very few want to give up what we've earned so far in the IAMNPF and start over with another 5 year vestment in an uncertain Teamster plan when at that time, 5 years from now, our IAMNPF will be worth near $1000 per month.

 

[Tim Nelson]

I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Not that I am any IAM fan or anything, but you have to remember, we are a very beat down, apathetic group. I would doubt you will even see "70%" get off their rears and actually even vote. Even if it is over the telephone for one of the first times I can remember here at US.

Also remember, most of us are at least 50 year old and more, and looking retirement in the face. Very few want to give up what we've earned so far in the IAMNPF and start over with another 5 year vestment in an uncertain Teamster plan when at that time, 5 years from now, our IAMNPF will be worth near $1000 per month.

Is that what the IAM is saying, I.e., that you would give up or forfeit the benefits that you already earned?

 

[Bob Owens]

I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch.

Not that I am any IAM fan or anything, but you have to remember, we are a very beat down, apathetic group. I would doubt you will even see "70%" get off their rears and actually even vote. Even if it is over the telephone for one of the first times I can remember here at US.

Also remember, most of us are at least 50 year old and more, and looking retirement in the face. Very few want to give up what we've earned so far in the IAMNPF and start over with another 5 year vestment in an uncertain Teamster plan when at that time, 5 years from now, our IAMNPF will be worth near $1000 per month.

Thats why I said 70% of those who vote. If they got 50%+1 of the eligible vote, counting those who are on the recall list I figure they got at least 70% of those who are likely to vote if not more. I agree a lot wont bother to vote at all but the ones who are dissatisfied are more likely to vote than those who are just plain beat down and dont care any more.

I suspect the IBT will point out how much the IAM membership has declined over the last 15 years and how that decline in membership threatens the solvency of the IAM pension plan. Sure the IBT plans have been under attack but my guess is thats only a few of the many plans the IBT has and they will claim the rest are healthy. Personally I think I'd rather be paid well enough to put away enough than count on a plan that banks on enough people who contribute dying off or the union seeing membership rates increase.

Like I said, I didnt think the IBT would get enough cards to file, well, despite all the old guys they did.

Just wondering , when one union challenges another and achieves a vote how often does the incumbant union win? My guess is not very.

 

[swamt]

Welcome back Bob. Below is what you posted but only provided one paragraph: Dont know the answers to your questions, dont really care, just stating my opinion that the IAM is toast and why. The FL guys hit the jackpot. There are guys in DFW walking away from 20 years of seniority to get on the bottom of the WN list. As I've said many times before, if WN put maint in ISP I'd be willing to start at the bottom of their list and walk away from 27 years of seniority. Four years in exchange for a big payraise and better benefits? What has the last eight years gotten IAM members at USAIR except bottom of the industry ? The FL guys made out real well, I wish WN had bouight AA.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We actually have an X-AA mech here in Dallas that left AA with 28 years, and came here to start all over. Don't remember where he was from, either, DFW or AFW. I hope more of you guys can make it over here. Would love to have you... Still no info on ISP Bob, but I promise you will hear it first from me if we do. Take care, and good luck to you guys if you get a vote.

 

[700UW]

Is that what the IAM is saying, I.e., that you would give up or forfeit the benefits that you already earned?

No they are not.

Not every IAM member is in the plan, it is a negotiated item, loss of membership has nothing to do with the plan unless that company paid into it.

 

[TRAVIS]

I don't care where you got anything. You are lying.

The only thing in the CBA regarding the IAM pension is this...and I quote

http://www.iamdl142....ril 3, 2008.pdf

"

A) Effective with the May 23, 2008 paycheck, the current
5 401K/Retirement Plans and Company match will be replaced with the IAM
6 National Pension Plan at the following rates:
7
8 • $1.60 per hour effective May 5, 2008, and $2.00 per hour
9 effective January 3, 2011 for all Planners, Technical
10 Documentation Specialists, Mechanics and higher classifications
11 in accordance with plan rules.
12 • $1.10 per hour effective May 5, 2008, and $1.45 per hour
13 effective January 3, 2011 for all Stock Clerk classifications in
14 accordance with plan rules.
15 • $.85 cents per hour effective May 5, 2008, and $1.05 per hour
16 effective January 3, 2011 for all Utility classifications in
17 accordance with plan rules."


THERE IS NO GUARANTEED MONTHLY MULTIPLIER.....FACT

You and your half truths don't cut it with me. Never have and never Will. Mr RB former Lavman

Good info:!!!! I think 700 is going to put you in his friends list. LOL

 

[Tim Nelson]

Good info:!!!! I think 700 is going to put you in his friends list. LOL

And just to further your point, there is actually a 'non guarantee'. Read the language,and it says the company does not guarantee any future benefit. And all IAM members who got absolutely hammered when the IAM stole our future pension benefits are QUITE AWARE that those dopey 'guaranteed schedules' change quite often. In fact, they don't only change whenever the trustees say so, the trustees have actually tossed some of those schedules away. Shifting sand, shifting sand. I'm stuck with it since I'm in the damn thing and I can tell you that it is no fun not having any access or choice in any matter. And the spousal offset chaps my ass further as it further slashes any benefit. regards,

 

[1AA]

Save what is left of your pensions. If the Teamsters gets a hold of your money you are so screwed. Either stick with the IAM in the meantime or use the Write In option and WRITE IN "AMFA"

 

[Tim Nelson]

[sup]Regarding the most important question about the Association

The most important question regarding the Association[/sup]

 

[Real tired]

Is that what the IAM is saying, I.e., that you would give up or forfeit the benefits that you already earned?

Actually no. But some here do believe that.

And through some of their fancy, colorful mailings, they seem to imply that.

And I quote from a recent mailing:
"An IAM pension protects her future. Exactly how would you explain giving it up?"

Draw you own conclusions.

 

[700UW]

If you vote out the IAM you lose future benefits and the ability to stay in the pension and as long as you have five years in the plan, what you earned is vested.

 

[Bob Owens]

If you vote out the IAM you lose future benefits and the ability to stay in the pension and as long as you have five years in the plan, what you earned is vested.

With the Association becoming the new bargaining unit what will happen to that pension plan when the majority of the mechanics, probably 2 to 1 will be in a different union? Do you really think the majority will seek to preserve a Pension plan that they are not in? So whether they vote IAM or IBT their future participation in the IAM plan is probably coming to an end. If the new AA offers us an increase in the 401K match in exchange for terminating their contribution to the IAM pension fund how do you think the vote will land?

Trying to sell one of the worst paying contracts in the industry on a pension sponsored by a dying union isnt going to be easy.

You got less than eight weeks to show your guys they have a good reason to remain the only mechanics left in the industry with the IAM. Eight weeks to convince them to remain in the IAM while the IAM intends to turn over their contract to an Association with the TWU where the TWU will outnumber them 2 to 1. If you don't at least address bottom of the industry wages you are done. The pension may sound good but the guys will realize with an average age of 55 the pension wont be enough make up for the miserable wages that lag the industry by a wide margin. They wont be able to retire ten years from now when they are 65 especially if they are looking at another 11 years of excuses from the IAM why they should work for $5/hr less than their former IAM brothers and Sisters who dumped the IAM.

 

[700UW]

Guess you didn't read the agreement, the pension is spelled out.

 

[Bob Owens]

The winners in this contest will not be who slings the most mud, who says who is more corrupt or less democratic but rather who has a plan to improve the lives of a battered and bruised membership that if anything was told by their incumbent unions to simply take the abuse and not fight back. Eleven years have passed since US first entered BK and despite the so called improvements with the transition agreement their real earnings are lower now than ever before, lower than when they exited BK eight years ago and getting worse every day. Defending your track record is moot, the fact that there is going to be a vote means they have heard all your excuses and don't like where they have landed. The IBT with its warts, its history of corruption, its lack of Democracy etc offers the mechanics the opportunity to become part of an aggressive union that has more mechanics at more carriers than any other union, (the same objective as AMFA) if US and AA were to both end up in the IBT ,no longer would there be a situation where a Union looks at concessions for the employer as a means to increase or preserve membership, under current conditions all the union has to do is ensure that the employer where they have members has lower labor costs and can expand at the expense of carriers with higher costs. The one thing that the IBT has to offer that nobody else does at this point that the incumbent unions are going to have to deal with if they want to remain is the possibility that by joining nearly all the mechanics in one union the race to the bottom may come to an end. In reality it probably is over, the IAM and TWU won and things will likely improve going forward but not due to Union membership, but simply market rates. I think the management teams of both US and AA are starting to realize that they went too far.

 

[Bob Owens]

Guess you didn't read the agreement, the pension is spelled out.

And the agreement can be changed by the two Presidents.