Teamster Organizer caught forging Authorization Cards

[Anomaly]

You answered you own question.
The IBT and UAL agreeed to expedited negotiations at the company's request I do believe.

You assume too much in your attempt to talk down AMFA. If we wanted more days, or wanted expidited negotiations, then we would ask for them. We settled the most important items to the AirTran guys already with our SLI and transition agreements.
They are on our seniority list and making our industry leading wages wages now.
The only reason that was not settled sooner was because the IBT would not come to the table and didn't return phone calls for a year.

When does your combined seniority list start and when do the furloughed UAL get brought back?

It seems to me you should be in more of a rush to finish your SLI and protect your laid off guys than worrying about when SWA guys get their next raise. We just got one in August.


We know the IBT. The last contract before we voted them away took around 2 years to reach.
And at that time there was no merger or addition of new work categories to our contract.

You side stepped the differences in the speed and resources of negotiations and refuse to recognize the progress of the IBT (the other dumbass informer pretends it does not exist and makes excuses to that end). You also refuse to recognize or admit it was the Teamsters who had given you the industry leading contract. SWA mechanics had enjoyed this top tier for many years under the Teamsters. You all simply chose to extend the lead by selling off work to El Salvador. Now that SWA apparently has some different plans for your group, how do you like that decision now?

To be clear, you managed to come to an agreement in the Airtran seniority integration with the help of the Teamsters. You refuse to recognize that the IBT had a major part in this as the outgoing representatives of Airtran mechanics. They were not abandoned as was Mesaba with amfa. You also refuse to admit that it was in our side’s best interest to expedite the negotiations. SWA mechanics had nothing but time and were willing to delay the proceedings as long as needed in order to prevent fairness (but you don't want to get me started on that subject again). Simply stated, it was the Teamsters that created and paved the road to have your SLI transition agreement in the relatively short time it took. Did you forget that little fact? Please share this with swamt…. She forgot too.

Perhaps you should take a look at your own airline page and read the answer to a question I asked. You very correctly answered that there is no forgone conclusion to the subject of retroactive payment. "It must be negotiated for each time" was the exact answer, and without very explicit language to the contrary, again, you are correct. Your girlfriend swamt makes the claim that you do not care how long negotiations takes under amfa, but I bet you will both be singing a different tune when you get less than 100% retro 2+ years from now. The RLA, unfortunately, is written to benefit the travel corporations and the fact that there is no expiration date or forced retroactive payment for overdue agreements supports this fact. In other words, I very seriously doubt the claim 'They can take as long as they like, if need be' is truthful.

Our seniority integration committee and negotiating committee are taking their time to ensure our seniority is combined in the most fair manner for the over 8,000 mechanics of our new airline. We are not looking to manipulate either side as SWA did with Airtran. There is no rush while we are still negotiating the agreement, but this decision will not hold up the agreement either. Don't worry about our furloughed members. They still have lifetime recall rights and the lists are already exhausted at many stations. I will admit however, it will take many, many more months if not years to recall all those thousands of mechanics we lost under amfa and the iam. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Bob Owens]

Why would they file the end of this month instead of waiting another month when the ten year recall window limit from 2003 wipes those names who are still on it off the list? Doesnt make sense to me. If they do file then you know why and it would simply prove that whats been claimed about the IBT drive is true. .

 

[Bob Owens]

You side stepped the differences in the speed and resources of negotiations and refuse to recognize the progress of the IBT (the other dumbass informer pretends it does not exist and makes excuses to that end). You also refuse to recognize or admit it was the Teamsters who had given you the industry leading contract. SWA mechanics had enjoyed this top tier for many years under the Teamsters. You all simply chose to extend the lead by selling off work to El Salvador. Now that SWA apparently has some different plans for your group, how do you like that decision now?

To be clear, you managed to come to an agreement in the Airtran seniority integration with the help of the Teamsters. You refuse to recognize that the IBT had a major part in this as the outgoing representatives of Airtran mechanics. They were not abandoned as was Mesaba with amfa. You also refuse to admit that it was in our side’s best interest to expedite the negotiations. SWA mechanics had nothing but time and were willing to delay the proceedings as long as needed in order to prevent fairness (but you don't want to get me started on that subject again). Simply stated, it was the Teamsters that created and paved the road to have your SLI transition agreement in the relatively short time it took. Did you forget that little fact? Please share this with swamt…. She forgot too.

Perhaps you should take a look at your own airline page and read the answer to a question I asked. You very correctly answered that there is no forgone conclusion to the subject of retroactive payment. "It must be negotiated for each time" was the exact answer, and without very explicit language to the contrary, again, you are correct. Your girlfriend swamt makes the claim that you do not care how long negotiations takes under amfa, but I bet you will both be singing a different tune when you get less than 100% retro 2+ years from now. The RLA, unfortunately, is written to benefit the travel corporations and the fact that there is no expiration date or forced retroactive payment for overdue agreements supports this fact. In other words, I very seriously doubt the claim 'They can take as long as they like, if need be' is truthful.

Our seniority integration committee and negotiating committee are taking their time to ensure our seniority is combined in the most fair manner for the over 8,000 mechanics of our new airline. We are not looking to manipulate either side as SWA did with Airtran. There is no rush while we are still negotiating the agreement, but this decision will not hold up the agreement either. Don't worry about our furloughed members. They still have lifetime recall rights and the lists are already exhausted at many stations. I will admit however, it will take many, many more months if not years to recall all those thousands of mechanics we lost under amfa and the iam. Thanks for your concern.

There is no doubt that the IBT did a good job with the UPS mechanics and set the bar for the industry, but dont the UPS mechanics have their own Local (2727)? Is that what they offered the even larger group at UAL? Is that what they are offering us at AA? Or are they using the accomplishments of that Local to sell the IBT and enrich the coffers of other Locals that do or did not represent any aircraft mechanics? Wasnt SFO split up between two Locals with half the mechanics in a Local from SFO but the other half in a Local from LAX? How does that build unity?

If the IBT were successful at AA would we be spread out like the spoils of War to various Locals made up of workers from many different industries where we may end up with a guy heading our negotiations(along with a few subordinate elected mechanics) who never worked a day as an aircraft mechanic? Thats even worse than having an appointed ex-mechanic heading our negotiations(with a few subordinate elected mechanics).

Isnt it true that if we go to the IBT that our workgroup would be split up between many different Locals, that our identity as Aircraft mechanics would be erased as we are consumed and disbursed among the millions of other IBT members and placed into Locals that more than likely are made up of IBT members that make even less than we do? That our Locals will have workers from many different industries in them and we will not get what the UPS mechanics got? I dont blame Local 2727 for not wanting us, hell they do have a good thing going but if 1200 guys at UPS can have a single Local then why cant the 9000 mechanics at UAL/CAL? Or even the 10,000 at AA?

I recall when I first got into this industry 30 years ago and an older mechanic was telling me of his experience with the IBT. This guy was the elected representative of the mechanics at a small carrier represented by the IBT. His name was Al and he was originally from Peurto Rico. He said the IBT sent in some guy from Tennesee who was a Truck driver who did no prep with them, to lead their negotiations. He didnt even know what the mechanics were asking for. In front of the company he leaned back and asked "What are you boys asking for anyway?" They said "$12/hr", With that he loudly said "$12/hour!!! I drove a truck for 20 years and didnt make $12/a day!!". The IBT did replace the guy but the damage was done. Please tell us, what is the name of the guy leading the current negotiations at UAL? What is his background? All the letters I've seen are signed by a guy who was a pilot, not a mechanic. Pilots do a good job negotiating for pilots, but I dont think I would want one negotiating for me for the same reason as I would not want a truck driver from Tennessee (or an appointed Ex Mechanic either).

 

[CIO]

Lets see, Teamsters had a rally with 6 attending locally, Amfa had a rally with 6 attending locally, Looks to me, like more organizers from out of town attending these gatherings. I believe everything is on course????
In Solidarity, CIO

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Lets see, Teamsters had a rally with 6 attending locally, Amfa had a rally with 6 attending locally, Looks to me, like more organizers from out of town attending these gatherings. I believe everything is on course????
In Solidarity, CIO

you must be referring to your 6 local 514 representatives that attended and had a bite to eat of AMFA food because we gave away alot of shirts to supporters who stopped by.
everything is on course for AMFA, thanks for taking notice

 

[700UW]

You do realize the NRTW Foundation is an anti-union group with hatred for all unions,

I would never use them as a reference for information.

 

[TWU informer]

You do realize the NRTW Foundation is an anti-union group with hatred for all unions,

I would never use them as a reference for information.

Typical Industrial Union BS. Of course they are anti-union, but can you dispute the claim made other than demonize the messenger?

 

[700UW]

Read their mission and go to their web page.

I can not refute their claim as I wasnt involved, can you validate it?

The press release states charges were filed, no determination has been made if its valid or not.

However, the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) provides that only one secret ballot election can take place in any given bargaining unit during a twelve-month period. Workers at the Mechanicsburg UPS Freight facility were therefore denied the opportunity to vote in a secret ballot election to determine unionization.

Despite this setback, one worker is challenging the validity of the Teamsters’ authorization cards with free legal assistance from the National Right to Work Foundation. The Foundation’s charges allege that many of the cards collected by Teamsters organizers are invalid, and that the Teamsters should not have monopoly bargaining privileges until they conclusively prove that a majority of workers support unionization.

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, established in 1968, is a nonprofit, charitable organization. Its mission is to eliminate coercive union power and compulsory unionism abuses through strategic litigation, public information, and education programs.

And now the other side:

http://www.aflcio.or...o-Work-for-Less

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There is no doubt that the IBT did a good job with the UPS mechanics and set the bar for the industry, but dont the UPS mechanics have their own Local (2727)? Is that what they offered the even larger group at UAL? Is that what they are offering us at AA? Or are they using the accomplishments of that Local to sell the IBT and enrich the coffers of other Locals that do or did not represent any aircraft mechanics? Wasnt SFO split up between two Locals with half the mechanics in a Local from SFO but the other half in a Local from LAX? How does that build unity?

If the IBT were successful at AA would we be spread out like the spoils of War to various Locals made up of workers from many different industries where we may end up with a guy heading our negotiations(along with a few subordinate elected mechanics) who never worked a day as an aircraft mechanic? Thats even worse than having an appointed ex-mechanic heading our negotiations(with a few subordinate elected mechanics).

Isnt it true that if we go to the IBT that our workgroup would be split up between many different Locals, that our identity as Aircraft mechanics would be erased as we are consumed and disbursed among the millions of other IBT members and placed into Locals that more than likely are made up of IBT members that make even less than we do? That our Locals will have workers from many different industries in them and we will not get what the UPS mechanics got? I dont blame Local 2727 for not wanting us, hell they do have a good thing going but if 1200 guys at UPS can have a single Local then why cant the 9000 mechanics at UAL/CAL? Or even the 10,000 at AA?

I recall when I first got into this industry 30 years ago and an older mechanic was telling me of his experience with the IBT. This guy was the elected representative of the mechanics at a small carrier represented by the IBT. His name was Al and he was originally from Peurto Rico. He said the IBT sent in some guy from Tennesee who was a Truck driver who did no prep with them, to lead their negotiations. He didnt even know what the mechanics were asking for. In front of the company he leaned back and asked "What are you boys asking for anyway?" They said "$12/hr", With that he loudly said "$12/hour!!! I drove a truck for 20 years and didnt make $12/a day!!". The IBT did replace the guy but the damage was done. Please tell us, what is the name of the guy leading the current negotiations at UAL? What is his background? All the letters I've seen are signed by a guy who was a pilot, not a mechanic. Pilots do a good job negotiating for pilots, but I dont think I would want one negotiating for me for the same reason as I would not want a truck driver from Tennessee (or an appointed Ex Mechanic either).

Now Bob you just can't go off and start confusing Anomaly with facts and tough questions.

You'll just get her confused and upset, and she'll end up running back to her airline division girlfriends crying.


BTW, other than the Denver reps, we have no "elected" mechanic negotiators.

Our mechanics on the negotiating committee are (in typical ibt fashion) appointed.

 

[Anomaly]

@ Bob Owens,

I have no idea what the Local will eventually be. Will you have your own Local or will you be split up among the various airline locals like UA and Continental? I would guesss the latter, but I really do not know. I jump on this board to screw with you guys and add some reality to some of the crap you all post. Maybe you should have gone to one of the meetings?

Speaking of which; your story of a truck driver named Al who 30 years ago negotiated an agreement for some airline could very easily be nade up. Seriously dude?

I have a story about a little guy who could not make it as a mechanic, got in to real estste and started his own airline mechanics union. He made a killling on this little venture and is living a life of luxury. Do you wanna swap stories?

Finally, and I hate responding to any of your posts because I think you will migrate to what ever group becomes the representative in the end, but as far as your comment of an ex-mechanic representing you; would you also consider Louie Key an ex-mechanic? How about you?

 

[Anomaly]

Now Bob you just can't go off and start confusing Anomaly with facts and tough questions.

You'll just get her confused and upset, and she'll end up running back to her airline division girlfriends crying.


BTW, other than the Denver reps, we have no "elected" mechanic negotiators.

Our mechanics on the negotiating committee are (in typical ibt fashion) appointed.

Not so quick there Mrs. Honesty.....

Other than Denver Local 455, I understand that Local 19, Local 769, Local 781, and Local 964 also elected their negotiators.

The others on the team are elected Chief Stewards from the various stations. All except for one. We have a representative from the line in SFO who is simply a rank and file member. He holds no union position and has spoken against the Teamsters several times in the past. He is a former amfa leader and very vocally did not trust the Teamsters during the first round of negotiations. He still does not, and for that reason as well as his experiance and professionalism, was appointed to the negotiation team.

Elected or not, most of us on the line look to him as a leader and for a reasonable view of how the negotiations are going. I have not heard him complain.

 

[CIO]

TWU Informer has testified in the past for the RTW coalition against Unions. This is why he fits right in with Amfa, They do such a good job at destroying peoples lives.

In Solidarity,
CIO

 

[Bob Owens]

You do realize the NRTW Foundation is an anti-union group with hatred for all unions,

I would never use them as a reference for information.

That would be like hiring ECLAT to look over the companys numbers to see if their claims are true, or hiring someone who worked for them to do your cost outs in negotiations.

 

[700UW]

The TWU has done a pretty good job too, as well as all unions in this industry.

Well put Bob.

 

[Bob Owens]

@ Bob Owens,

I have no idea what the Local will eventually be.

Finally, and I hate responding to any of your posts because I think you will migrate to what ever group becomes the representative in the end, but as far as your comment of an ex-mechanic representing you; would you also consider Louie Key an ex-mechanic? How about you?

So you are saying the guys at AA should just trust that they wont be split up like the guys at UAL.

The mechanics who told me the story was Al, have no idea who the appointed IBT rep that they sent to lead negotiations was.

Is Louis appointed to a position or does he serve at the behest of his fellow mechanics?

I still do my required training and still bid my shifts and still get paid as a mechanic, have not turned a wrench on a plane in a while but thats because my peers have not decided to send me back to my box yet, its still there, so is my locker.

Why exactly do you hate to respond to my posts?? What you wrote doesn't make sense. What would one thing have to do with the other?