TAESL closing January 31

[AA89]

The right answer is that nobody should have to take a qualifying test as long as they have an A&P license.  AA has used the qualifying test to deny individuals their bids.  
 

I haven't heard of anyone denied a bid for failing the written test. I wonder what would happen if it were failed during a RIF. Hit the street? I do know that the practical can be failed and retaken after 3 months on the line.

 

[Slopoke]

Deleted

 

[Slopoke]

Transfers are by classification, a 2015 seniority man who is currently AMT will be ahead of a 1997 seniority OSM. The TWU way!!

 
 

That is what some guys are banking on but I couldn't find it explained in the contract.

 
 
Just spit balling here. Why can't an OSM take the A25 test, kinda like getting pre - qualified as an AMT. Just like you can get Crew Chief pre qualified.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I haven't heard of anyone denied a bid for failing the written test. I wonder what would happen if it were failed during a RIF. Hit the street? I do know that the practical can be failed and retaken after 3 months on the line.

The point is there should not be any test.  We are all A&P mechanics.  Bottom line.  

 

[AA89]

 
 
 
 
Just spit balling here. Why can't an OSM take the A25 test, kinda like getting pre - qualified as an AMT. Just like you can get Crew Chief pre qualified.

I guess if they have an A & P they can. Without an A & P they can't work the line.

 

[Real tired]

The point is there should not be any test.  We are all A&P mechanics.  Bottom line.  

Exactly right.
 
Was your goofy test developed by the company or the union?  Or was it jointly developed, and when?

 

[Real tired]

Transfers are by classification, a 2015 seniority man who is currently AMT will be ahead of a 1997 seniority OSM. The TWU way!!

 By all things union, that just is not right !!

 

[Slopoke]

Exactly right.
 
Was your goofy test developed by the company or the union?  Or was it jointly developed, and when?

 
The A25 test is a line mechanics test that you take to pass probation for new hires. It's usually given with a 10 question oral exam, which 100% was required to pass back when I took it in 87. IIRC, the union signs off on the test questions.

 

[AA89]

 
The A25 test is a line mechanics test that you take to pass probation for new hires. It's usually given with a 10 question oral exam, which 100% was required to pass back when I took it in 87. IIRC, the union signs off on the test questions.

This new test is only a couple of years old. It was created after the AFW closing supposedly by the company and the union. There is a 650 question sample test you can use to study with. From that there are several different 50 question tests that the tester can choose from to give. You must make an 80 to pass. There are questions on the test that are wrong because the GPM changes weekly and many have said that there are manual questions that are wrong. The test covers all manuals including the GPM, MSDS, and even the FAA and TSA websites.
If you pass that you are given the practical. If you fail that, you can take it after working the line for 3 months.
I took and passed the line test 25 years ago. Unless my memory is way off, I don't remember a written test. At least not one this intense. Only a practical where you had to show some proficiency with the MM and logbook procedures.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Taking test and pre qualifying for aircraft maintenance positions, did the union or company doit.
 
The whole system here at AA is sickening, taking a test to get to Tulsa, taking a test to get to the line, at one point in ALL our career we knew very little about this JOB.
 
Instead what has it come down to? Just what the TWU has taught you protect what you got. If that in any way is threatened we'll create a way to keep the unwanted group from coming to our shop, station, dept. Phone calls are made checking on workers to find out if they fit the mold. Then the test are geared to pass/fail each person. Crew chief slots are a perfect example of this. All of you know this as well.
 
The IGM mentality here at AA  is the reason WHY as a group we get just what the Company feels we deserve. Nothing, They take because the TWU has set up ways in which we can stab one another in the back by the many back door deals in all these yrs.
 
Can a line guy grind a turbine wheel "NO" does a guy who worked at a small class 2 station accomplish a job on a wide body A/C "NO". Sheet metal tasks are a skill most of us don't have, the same as avionics.  And we all know someone that should not be in the flight deck taxiing aircraft as well.
 
Everyone who has an A&P at one point in his/her career needed some type of OJT. The Title 1 classification of the many jobs throughout AA system is what it is. If you did not like it then why didn't you guy's force a change? WHY? because it didn't effect you or your little worlds.
 
The OSM, JR mechanics, these are ways in which the TWU created positions within the company, to pacify the headcount keeping dues paying members here thus giving AA a deal with lower wage scale people. 
 
We have taken over and merged with so many other carriers over the yrs and instead of taking them in we looked for ways to screw them. The TWU way. Did these guys loose any previous knowledge about the aircraft or engines they worked "NO" some of them could work circles around some here and you know that. 
 
This association the IAM/TWU abomination is going to do what it can to keep as many men/woman on the job as it can. WHY? to insure that if any vote is allowed these employees will be grateful for the job they have.
 
Isn't time we as A&P's start to stick together and work toward bettering our class and craft?

 

[bikeguy]

Taking test and pre qualifying for aircraft maintenance positions, did the union or company doit.
 
The whole system here at AA is sickening, taking a test to get to Tulsa, taking a test to get to the line, at one point in ALL our career we knew very little about this JOB.
 
Instead what has it come down to? Just what the TWU has taught you protect what you got. If that in any way is threatened we'll create a way to keep the unwanted group from coming to our shop, station, dept. Phone calls are made checking on workers to find out if they fit the mold. Then the test are geared to pass/fail each person. Crew chief slots are a perfect example of this. All of you know this as well.
 
The IGM mentality here at AA  is the reason WHY as a group we get just what the Company feels we deserve. Nothing, They take because the TWU has set up ways in which we can stab one another in the back by the many back door deals in all these yrs.
 
Can a line guy grind a turbine wheel "NO" does a guy who worked at a small class 2 station accomplish a job on a wide body A/C "NO". Sheet metal tasks are a skill most of us don't have, the same as avionics.  And we all know someone that should not be in the flight deck taxiing aircraft as well.
 
Everyone who has an A&P at one point in his/her career needed some type of OJT. The Title 1 classification of the many jobs throughout AA system is what it is. If you did not like it then why didn't you guy's force a change? WHY? because it didn't effect you or your little worlds.
 
The OSM, JR mechanics, these are ways in which the TWU created positions within the company, to pacify the headcount keeping dues paying members here thus giving AA a deal with lower wage scale people. 
 
We have taken over and merged with so many other carriers over the yrs and instead of taking them in we looked for ways to screw them. The TWU way. Did these guys loose any previous knowledge about the aircraft or engines they worked "NO" some of them could work circles around some here and you know that. 
 
This association the IAM/TWU abomination is going to do what it can to keep as many men/woman on the job as it can. WHY? to insure that if any vote is allowed these employees will be grateful for the job they have.
 
Isn't time we as A&P's start to stick together and work toward bettering our class and craft?
 
 

 

Smartest thing I have heard in a long time.
At my station it seems it's the last thing on the Mechanics mind.
I'm not sure if a huge pay raise is gonna help. The old timers that have been screwed time and time again by CEO's that leave with these huge "golden parachutes" after making things worse.
It's gonna take time to make the mindset better.

 

[Shafted]

I'm not sure if I understand what you are asking but the way I understand the way it works in a RIF is that after all open slots are filled in the system, the remaining TAESL mechanics will be able to bump from the bottom of the seniority list up. So OSMs are exposed along with AMTs since they are on the same Title 1 seniority list. There are no OSMs at TAESL. Only DWH and TULE.
 Jim Weel said that there are at least 354 open slots in the system so that means no one will be bumped. Not sure of they are all AMT positions or not.

 
There are OSMs at TAESL!

 

[bikeguy]

 
There are OSMs at TAESL!

The Senority list does not show any.

 

[AA89]

There are OSMs at TAESL!

Which shop or shops? You counting blast and paint?

 

[bigjets]

The A25 test is harder then before, there are a number of current line mechs that would have a hard time with it, just like I would have a hard time with a structure mech test.

David Seymor said he doesn't expect an overhaul mech to take test without training or experience, much like he wouldn't expect a S80 FO to take 777 capt qualifying test without training or experience.

Stop thinking the worst, this isn't the old AA executive culture any longer.