SWA, FL FA agree on SENIORITY
- Thread starter gizmo_sc
- Start date
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
- Banned
- #152
I swear, this thread has turned into equivalent of still arguing over who fired the first shot in WWII when the war's over and the loser is licking his wounds. Bus - you lost. The majority of your fellow WN fa's decided the seniority integration proposal was fair enough to accept. Likewise for the majority of FL fa's. If you want to be bitter all the way to the grave that's your right, but all that matters at this point is that the war you've been fighting is over and most are just happy with that.
Jim
Jim
QA4Jet-A
Veteran
Jim. I can't agree with you more. Even your posting friend WT seems to understand this. Kev & X-UT get it as well. I have given up hope on trying to respond anymore. It is so pointless that some continue to beat on the same old 'Broken' drum but I am saying my piece here and I am walking away from this stupidity.
What is sad is that the Mx guys will take this to Arbitration and deal with many years of BS. At least the F/As agreed and they can move on. Too bad that some, who won't be affected, scream the loudest, even when it doesn't matter anymore. I am tired of seeing the BS of how AT is getting the Lotto Ticket and the WN peeps are getting the shaft, when the WN people are ALL READY Lottery winners and we are just coming up to their level. They say we haven't worked for it... We didn't go through their probation, their interviews. That is a sound statement as we did not. What we did do is work our butts off and did the best we could with what we had. We are not perfect but work well with each other and we hope to bring something to the Table. If they can't see that process, perhaps they should reconsider their values. It was posted in another Thread how we would have considered 'Integration' when we were trying to purchase "Midwest'. DOH was cool with me even though I would have sunk a few years. In my mind, it was more important to me to blend in and learn from others who have been in the Industry longer, not worry about whether I have a Saturday Night off!
Cheers, QA
AvTech04
Senior
Why do you insist on always using the term "giving away" when you say pay raises?? What, are AT employees not working for it?? Are we just sitting on our asses watching others work?? Everyone on this forum, except for you and maybe a few others, see that you are a huge problem. You always have a right to speak your opinon, it's the American right after all, but what you speak says a lot of what kind of person you are. You mentioned being commended over 300 times and only having 3 complaints about you in your career.... I find that difficult to believe considering you've been on this forum for a few months now and have surpassed your career complaints 3 fold!! And you say that you're a different person in real life verses the person we read on this forum? Well, if that's true then you're a hypocrite and are either fearful of being your true self or you're just on here to make this merger as difficult as possible for everyone, trolling to cause chaos amongst the peaceful. Either way, you've lost all creditability in my eyes... You just told all of us that you really aren't this way in real life, so either you lied about that, or you're lying about not being this annoying outside the forum. I think I'm done with you now, go ahead, get your last word in, I don't care. I've lost he little respect I had for you to begin with. You've ruined yourself beyond repair to me...
Oh, BTW, since we're tooting our own horn here, I don't work directly with customers and have had letters of recognition sent about me to the airlines I've worked for commending me on my efforts numerous times and I've never had a single customer complaint about me... On top of multiple FAA diamond and ruby awards and even a letter of recognition from the FAA as well that earned me mechanic of the month in 2 different airlines..
I'm sorry to others who have to endure my boasting of myself, I'm really not the kind of person to do that. It made me cringe to write what I wrote above. Infact, I despise when others spout off their credentials like they are some sort of gift to their classification, they seem to think that we should honor them for something... Anyways, only reason I did it was to show Buscador that he/she isn't as great as he/she puts himself/herself out to be.
I assure you Buscador, there are a lot of airline personal that do their part to make the operation run well and run smooth that don't get recognized for it and should, so don't put your credentials out there like your petitioning for a position of power or something... Even if it is just to justify your own need to get attention.
I thought you were done? Hypocrite you say, no I know who butters my bread and am appreciative of that. Believe me I don't need a forum to say my peace and face to face out of ear shot of customers would be no problem.
I have no doubt you have gotten accomadatiins, you seem like you would be a good employee. You think I am bragging, cm on I could care less about awards and pom poms, but all your cronies and liberal supporters are way off on their judgements and its Ok.The POM POM BOYS think I am a bad apple that's fine, neither they nor you write my check or are senior to me so I could care less.
You have never thought about how the other shoe would fit, you insult and come from a point of entitlement and that is abrasive to many. I am sorry that you guys are headed to arbitration because of all the groups the mechs seemed the most willing to be fair, that's all anyone at Swa could of hoped for.
So even though you are done reading my posts, just in case your controlling side can't resist, I would hope you would take a breath before u insult any more groups or depts or individuals(except me cause I care less)...
Remember you are coming to swa and as hard as it may be for some AT people to show appreciation and close their mouths until they understand our system, just words of advice
I am willing to move on because we can agree to disagree on certain points, 1- you EARNED EXACTLY what AT was paying you, 40% instant pay raise was Given to you whether you work for it or not!!! Stop insulting those who Took years to Earn swa contracts,,, AGREE TO DISAGREE DONE
2- Your top out flight attendants can work 3 days more a month and in the next 20 years will make 754,000$ more at SWA than at AT, That is a Lottery winner if I have seen one,,, AGREE TO DISAGREE
so good luck to you Avtech, now that you are ignoring me,lol... I do wish the mechs good luck it seemed like you guys were n the right path until late November, not sure what happened
Boeing boy is right, its time to move on, so as long as no AT people insult or act entitled then I will breathe and slow down the tirades, the first step to recovery is acknowledgement..lol
SO HERE IS TO MOVING FORWARD
Buscador,
Man it is time to give it a rest. AvTech has never once disrespected any one of us. The AT employees are sick and tired of hearing your rampid asults, as I am. The vote for the F'A's are tallied. It's done. Overwith. Stick a fork in it. And pls move on. If our mechanics integration agreements are voted down, or in, then so be it. We (as mechanics) can do nothing more to change that fact. Once it's done, it's done. Move on with life. Welcome all the new AT employees into your workgroup. But pls stop with the outlandish request to have all the AT folks to thank "you" or SWA for giving them employment at SWA. Your killing me. And as a matter of fact, it's really getting old.
Believe me when I say "the AT employees are estatic to become a part of SWA" Now let's move on with our lives, welcome them all with open arms, and grow this company to an endless size and opertunities.; Nuff said, I think?...
Man it is time to give it a rest. AvTech has never once disrespected any one of us. The AT employees are sick and tired of hearing your rampid asults, as I am. The vote for the F'A's are tallied. It's done. Overwith. Stick a fork in it. And pls move on. If our mechanics integration agreements are voted down, or in, then so be it. We (as mechanics) can do nothing more to change that fact. Once it's done, it's done. Move on with life. Welcome all the new AT employees into your workgroup. But pls stop with the outlandish request to have all the AT folks to thank "you" or SWA for giving them employment at SWA. Your killing me. And as a matter of fact, it's really getting old.
Believe me when I say "the AT employees are estatic to become a part of SWA" Now let's move on with our lives, welcome them all with open arms, and grow this company to an endless size and opertunities.; Nuff said, I think?...
Hey Swamt give me a break here, didn't I just say that it was time to move on? I even wished you guys luck on both sides and said I was sorry that I may go to arbitration because the mechs seemed to finding fair ground, until last november anyway.
Your killing me here, nuff said, I think
Kev3188
Veteran
You must've missed the posts where I noted FL employees will have to *earn* their new base rates, and that nothing is being "given" to them.
Nope, not doing it...................that's a period for every slow breath I took, I will not let you provoke, only if an AT person insults or acts of entitlement surface . Have a nice day kev, very nice try!!
Kev3188
Veteran
The only thing you're "not doing" is comprehending what I've written here recently. That's okay though; from your writing, it's clear you enjoy playing the victim.
Workinaflight
Newbie
- Jan 28, 2012
- 14
- 7
I don't know - how is it - since this was my direct quote:
And from that - you twist my words and say that I said that "ALL AT EMPLOYEES SUCK"??? Get over yourself...
I'm done with this thread. I'm not an FA - I am ramp. And supposedly from what little info they give us - the integration is headed to arbitration without a vote - which in my opinion is garbage. I think we should have had a proposal that we could have voted on, and when it got voted down by about 95% of our members it could have had some bearing on the arbitration. DOH would not affect my seniority - but it would affect those of us who do not have what I do - and they get nothing for being bumped down. Nothing. And our probation period is 6 months. Exactly what AT should have when they come over. I have never said that AT doesn't have some good workers. I have flown on them and for the most part have had good customer service, and the FA's have been cool. We work near to their Ramp operation, and they have a few good guys. But they have a lot of rule breakers, lazy people, and people that just don't care. See it every day. WAY worse then the few "turds" we have. And those guys are in for culture shock when they figure out that they are going to handle 3 times or more bags every FLIGHT when they come here.
SO - buscador - I understand where you are coming from. It's not worth typing up pages to fight with these guys who obviously don't get it. It's like this - if we were bought by another company - I would expect either a raise up to their pay scale, or my DOH seniority. Not both. The AT people won the Lotto - and still have the balls to complain about it and think they should get more.
As to SWA being bought out by a "bigger and better airline" - I like the ones that were named - I think ALL of them have been through bankruptcy, some more then once, and one is in it now?? Vs. an airline that has turned a profit for over 35 years? One that has the highest pay and benes in the industry for most, if not all, work groups? Bigger and better?????
I and my co-workers like buscador - have helped build SWA to the top. And the way the AT thing is playing out - we may be watching it begin the downward spiral...
Kev3188
Veteran
Agreed. Arbitration is an ugly road that may result in something *no one* likes. There are plenty of methods the arbitrator can use that while meeting the covenant of "fair and equitable" may be anything but.
BTW, I'm a crew chief on the ramp, and I don't like slugs any more than anyone else. That's why I keep emphasizing performance.
The first part contradicts the second. If there's some that are good-and assuming the layabouts will get weeded out- then what difference does it make TO YOU what they're paid? Why are you so against the few good guys you see next door coming up to your level?
You're right; I don't get it. I fail to see why you're so against a group (again, one that had no control in any of this) making what you all currently enjoy.
What exactly are they complaining about above what's been mentioned here?
I think you may be right, but hope you're wrong.
AvTech04
Senior
That's exactly what I've been trying to avoid, an uncontrolled spiral in the wrong direction. I'll agree that the AT ramp is in for a big shell shock when they start to push SWA planes, some of them will make it and some of them won't. But to say that anyone has "won the lottery" is a bit outlandish...
First, when it comes to senority, it's really difficult to decide whats fair and equitable for both sides, there's going to be at least one group that's unhappy about it, and if it ends up in arbitration, then there might be more than 2 groups unhappy about the results, but we don't know, it's a flip of a coin.
Second, yes, SWA does have leading pay and bennies in the industry, that's wonderful, but with the. We consolidated legacy carriers, they not only run for less but do more for less making them able to take SWA business and bank cold hard cash vs. credit of assets. They may have gone to bankruptcy but don't count them out, once AA is out of bankruptcy, SWA is going to have a real competition on their hands!! I can only hope that the management team knows what they're doing because now they are threading in new waters..
Lastly, now I'm going to sound like management here, but it's true. The front line employees are directly responsible for the aftermath the supersedes passed the integration. WE, all of us, are the ones who determine what culture WE are going to have after its all said and done. AT employees don't have much control over it now, but SWA employees do!! It all pretty much rides on you guys during the integration and then on all our shoulders after we're merged. I'd personally would like to assimilate the best of both worlds and, like Buscador said, agree to disagree with ONLY things we had no control over.
Don't be bitter about this integration even is it does go to arbitraion. It's okay. Aribitration isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's there for a reason. When 2 groups just can't seem to find a middle ground, then instead of stale mating the process, an arbitrator rules and we can all move forward.
This is for all of you following the mechanics vote. The results of the first ballot is posted, 4 LOA's:
AMFA - SWA Letters of Agreement Referendum Results
The votes for the AMFA – Southwest Airlines Letters of Agreement (LOAs) Referendum were tallied on February 14, 2012. Ballots for this referendum were counted and certified by TrueBallot, Inc. The results are as follows:
DFW LOA
Rejected
LOA #5
Maintenance Controllers
Accepted
LOA #6
Maintenance Technical Instructors
Accepted
LOA #7
Technical Support Mechanics
Rejected
AMFA - SWA Letters of Agreement Referendum Results
The votes for the AMFA – Southwest Airlines Letters of Agreement (LOAs) Referendum were tallied on February 14, 2012. Ballots for this referendum were counted and certified by TrueBallot, Inc. The results are as follows:
DFW LOA
Rejected
LOA #5
Maintenance Controllers
Accepted
LOA #6
Maintenance Technical Instructors
Accepted
LOA #7
Technical Support Mechanics
Rejected
Forgot to add the following:
Facilities Maint. Also voted to accept their LOA.
I am actually shocked at the DFW results. I really thought all the mechanics were going to fold for the 401K match and Denver maint. promices. Just goes to show you that the mechanics did not fall for the company's carrots. One down and one to go.
