stop the outsourcing?

[700UW]

Oh yes Delta did!
 
http://www.startribune.com/business/132537688.html

 

[WorldTraveler]

Delta PAID BACK the loan.... they didn't walk away from it. and DL is still one of the largest private employers in Minnesota.


And part of the reason they paid it back ahead of other loans was because it was higher interest than other loans - IOW NW had obtained financing and gained restrictions that were less than what DL could obtain elsewhere.

 

[topDawg]

I guess that is better than having to sustain the barrage of body blows inflicted by dawg.

Ouch! That was painful to read.

I am surprised that anyone is still willing to take him to task any more on his bloviating. All have given up in proving him wrong on his cyclonic spin long ago.

Kudos to topDawg.

Uga has more bite than bark.

Glad some get it. All I want for TechOps is the best. I think this company could easily be comparable with LH and AF.  
 

TopDawg,
 
Your posts are awesome!

I try. 
 

what's funny is that you and others fail to acknowledge that there is a large portion of DL's leadership that has had nothing to do with NW.
its about 50/50. Most of the operations people are exNW. 
what's sad is that you and the union pearl clutchers can't recognize that the biggest increase in NW's outsourcing came as a result of a failed strike that put 5000 highly paid AMT's on the street.
a failed strike? as i said.....your talking 
 
but haven't got the smallest idea of that your talking about. That strike did far more good than bad. 
DL had nothing to do with that action.
did i say they did?
DL had nothing to do with a number of the actions that NW made, both good and bad.
did i say they did?
It is no more accurate to include NW's actions pre-merger in DL's history than it is for DL to claim that they pioneered routes to Asia over the N. Pacific.
when someones asks what hangar have DL/NW given up that means you can include both DL and NW's hangar history. Don't talk crap about UGA and my UGA education if you can't even pick up on a single question. 
Anyone who wants a fair and accurate reading of history knows that was done by NW, just as NW fought off a leverage buy out, gained state guarantees - some of which they walked away from, and then fought off labor unions.
that last part.....its mostly false. but you tell yourself whatever you want. Its clear you don't care about the true history. 
DL did none of those things.

and the CEO who broke AMFA at NW doesn't work in the airline industry, let alone at DL.
not true. Steeland was around for the end, Anderson was the one that really got the ball rolling. He not only wanted to basically turn NW's maintenance in the minimum, he also had a grand plan of outsourcing all international FAs.   

and you also recognize that the top 2 leaders at DL who are directly responsible for MRO not only didn't come from NW but haven't been at any other legacy carrier since 1987 - more than 25 years.
uhhh....what? 
matter of fact what in the actual f**k are you talking bout? 
 
Pete Turner came from Rolls (VP of MRO) 
Jack Arehart came from AAR and TIMCO (Pres of MRO) I do think he started at WA, may have been with Delta before moving to MROs
They report to 
Don Mitacek who was at UA, NW and TIMCO (SVP TechOps) 
Who reports to 
Gil West (ExNW)
who reports to 
Richard Anderson (ExNW) 
 
So care to try that again?
 
What DL is doing in MRO services was developed at DL and with experience that is far beyond working at airlines. Period.
what does that even mean?

 

[robbedagain]

dawg   your posts are truly spectacular and right on bro

 

[swamt]

Looks like the twins are at it again and now are trying to support one another,  just gotta LUV this stuff man...

 

[WorldTraveler]

except not a SINGLE EXECUTIVE who is responsible for MRO did not come directly from NW.

Suppose that even Anderson himself - who did not come directly from NW - realizes that he needs to bring in people who actually know that side of the business.

DL had a merger - the largest merger in the US airline industry as a percentage of the two workforces... of course there are people from both sides.

Why don't you tell me who is in charge at DL for each area and where they came from?

Who is running DL's HR - and why do you suppose that person has the background they did?

NW ran a good operation. there is no reason a NW operational person can't do their thing at DL.

but when it comes to areas where NW clearly had little to no expertise, you'll find someone else there.

It absolutely amazes me that so many people, whether it included you or not I don't remember, argued about how DL was "getting the red out" during the merger and now when it becomes clear that there are people who spent time in leadership at NW - even if they started or spent time elsewhere - it is all about DL is copying NW's leadership.

You do realize that NONE of the current big 3 has executives that came exclusively from AA, DL, or UA? You do realize that there are DL mgmt. people who are at WN?

DLs MRO leadership comes from the manufacturing and non-airline MRO sides of the industry more than the airline industry. That is what it means and that is what you would expect from an airline that wants to compete with them.
, in
Suppose they are keenly aware of what Rolls and AA makes on TAESL as well as the terms that DL would have to overcome if they wanted to overhaul the engines that they have walked away from, in your word?

Your incessant attempts to find demons behind every doorknob says volumes about why you don't understand the basic nature of the way good organizations are built - not from inbreeding but from cross-breeding.

If you think calling the AMFA strike was a success, then we really don't need to go any further. ANFA opened the door for NW to lay off 5000 of their highest paid ground employees opened the door for outsourcing of virtually the entire NW maintenance operation, got rid of significant amounts of facilities, and it was ONLY as a result of the DL merger that former NW mgmt. began to approach maintenance with the mindset that there were opportunities to do maintenance in-house again.

oh, and because you said so, DL pioneered the Great Circle Route flying across the Pacific.

NW is dead so that is DL's history now.

DL truly was a pioneer.... opening routes in S. America, operating the airlift to Berlin, opening a Pacific hub in Tokyo, and those happy little Yellow birds - one in the northeast and one on the west coast..... if you so, DL gets credit for all of that.

 

[topDawg]

dawg   your posts are truly spectacular and right on bro

 
thanks much

Looks like the twins are at it again and now are trying to support one another,  just gotta LUV this stuff man...

 
someone wanna clue me in on wtf your talking about?

except not a SINGLE EXECUTIVE who is responsible for MRO did not come directly from NW.
WTF are you talking about. Don is the boss, Jack and Pete report to him. Don came from NW. (and i believe he even came over in the merger) 
Suppose that even Anderson himself - who did not come directly from NW - realizes that he needs to bring in people who actually know that side of the business.
now your playing with words to seem cute. It isn't working. Directly or not Anderson is a red tail. period. 
DL had a merger - the largest merger in the US airline industry as a percentage of the two workforces... of course there are people from both sides.
and I am talking about TechOps. Your changing your point because your wrong. 
Why don't you tell me who is in charge at DL for each area and where they came from?
no. you said TechOps. Don, is the big boss at TechOps and he is from NW. (that being said he is much better than Tony or John ever were) 
Who is running DL's HR - and why do you suppose that person has the background they did?
who gives a crap? you said TechOps isn't run from anyone who came from NW. Your wrong. Move on. quit trying to make useless points. 
NW ran a good operation. there is no reason a NW operational person can't do their thing at DL.

but when it comes to areas where NW clearly had little to no expertise, you'll find someone else there.

It absolutely amazes me that so many people, whether it included you or not I don't remember, argued about how DL was "getting the red out" during the merger and now when it becomes clear that there are people who spent time in leadership at NW - even if they started or spent time elsewhere - it is all about DL is copying NW's leadership.
All the NW people said that. I don't know, for example, about the ramp. Kev can answer than not me. I know that for TechOps it is mostly exNW people. Even the people under Don, All of them except Lee(Line MX) and David(errr...not sure exactly what he is doing now, engineering maybe?) are NW people.  
You do realize that NONE of the current big 3 has executives that came exclusively from AA, DL, or UA? You do realize that there are DL mgmt. people who are at WN?
er okay......searching for a point.
DLs MRO leadership comes from the manufacturing and non-airline MRO sides of the industry more than the airline industry. That is what it means and that is what you would expect from an airline that wants to compete with them.
, in that is also bull crap. Most people around the world have spent time at MROs. You don't start out in the big leagues 

Suppose they are keenly aware of what Rolls and AA makes on TAESL as well as the terms that DL would have to overcome if they wanted to overhaul the engines that they have walked away from, in your word?
uh. TAESL doesn't overhaul any of the engines I believe should be done in-house. Unless they started doing Pratt engines and i missed it. 
Your incessant attempts to find demons behind every doorknob says volumes about why you don't understand the basic nature of the way good organizations are built - not from inbreeding but from cross-breeding.
No it simply shows you know nothing of what you speak. Your on the outside, somewhat looking in and then fill in the rest your what happens in your little fantasy, Delta can do no wrong mind set. 
I have plenty of good things to say about Delta, but I can also see the bad. You can't. 
If you think calling the AMFA strike was a success, then we really don't need to go any further. ANFA opened the door for NW to lay off 5000 of their highest paid ground employees opened the door for outsourcing of virtually the entire NW maintenance operation, got rid of significant amounts of facilities, and it was ONLY as a result of the DL merger that former NW mgmt. began to approach maintenance with the mindset that there were opportunities to do maintenance in-house again.
​filling in the pieces with whatever you want again.
Kids if the AMFA would not have walked, how much MX would they have done in house? anyone? anyone?
 
Oh the same amount they did at the time of the merger. AMFA walked out because NW wanted unlimited outsourcing. Had they hung around and signed that contract it would have been the death punch to the craft. You can see this because you don't know WTF your talking about. Again. 
oh, and because you said so, DL pioneered the Great Circle Route flying across the Pacific.

NW is dead so that is DL's history now.

DL truly was a pioneer.... opening routes in S. America, operating the airlift to Berlin, opening a Pacific hub in Tokyo, and those happy little Yellow birds - one in the northeast and one on the west coast..... if you so, DL gets credit for all of that.​uh.... I can't with this. learn how to understand English and get back to me. 

 

[700UW]

Great post once again.

What the elitist swamt is taking about it is my back and forth with WT.
 
Since WT cant answer or refuses to answer as it will show DL in a bad light, he throws crap into the debate to change and deflect.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm searching for your point, Dawg.

DL has embraced maintenance insourcing more than any other airline.

Given that DL merged with NW, you won't find anyone at DL who isn't more than a step or two from someone who came from NW.

That's what happens in a merger.

Doesn't change that DL insources more than any other airline in the western hemisphere.

Did NW do that? Does AA, UA, or WN?

No.

DL's insourcing brings jobs to DL people even if it isn't in the areas that you want to see it.

DL gains insourcing revenues equal to about 1/4 of its entire budget to maintain its own fleet.

DL does more to bring revenue INTO maintenance and create jobs for DL employees than any other US airline.

 

[topDawg]

Great post once again.
What the elitist swamt is taking about it is my back and forth with WT.
 
Since WT cant answer or refuses to answer as it will show DL in a bad light, he throws crap into the debate to change and deflect.

 
 

I'm searching for your point, Dawg.
your the only person here who can't seem to figure it out.....
DL has embraced maintenance insourcing more than any other airline.
So Delta is larger than LH? AF? BA? I mean that is news to me......
Given that DL merged with NW, you won't find anyone at DL who isn't more than a step or two from someone who came from NW.
*sigh* okay whatever you say but your quote was "and you also recognize that the top 2 leaders at DL who are directly responsible for MRO not only didn't come from NW but haven't been at any other legacy carrier since 1987 - more than 25 years." that is completely false. Don is the highest person at Delta TechOps and is exNW. Sorry, your wrong, now completely deflecting from it. 
That's what happens in a merger.

Doesn't change that DL insources more than any other airline in the western hemisphere.
which has nothing to do with anything. 
Did NW do that? Does AA, UA, or WN?
Yes. NW was a fairly large MRO before they dumped the 145 cert. AA is also fairly large in the MRO world. UA not as much, but they do have a large amount of Pratt engine work. 
No.

DL's insourcing brings jobs to DL people even if it isn't in the areas that you want to see it.
​Delta's MX work force for the most part has been stagnate.  
DL gains insourcing revenues equal to about 1/4 of its entire budget to maintain its own fleet.

DL does more to bring revenue INTO maintenance and create jobs for DL employees than any other US airline.
feel good stat that means nothing. Delta could dump the MRO side completely and focus on just doing its own work.......bringing in all the landing gear, APUs, Engines, Airframe overhauls, component work (example, seats) that is  sent out and still have to hire thousands of people.  

 

[topDawg]

Oh and from your data Delta outsourcing has gone up almost double (25% to 41%) in the last 4 years. 
 
good thing the employees have a way to stop that......oh **** they don't. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh, you might want to check the data that shows that NW was outsourcing 61% of its maintenance spend when they shut their doors; it went as high as 74% in 2007. wanna guess what took place right before?

DL's rate of maintenance outsourcing jumped from 26 to 40% between 2009 and 2010; 2009 was the last year NW reported as a standalone company separate from DL's stats while 2010 was the first year DL's numbers include NW.

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/Delta%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm

http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/2013%2012%20Month%20Documents/Employees%20and%20Productivity/Individual%20Employee%20Data/Northwest%20Airlines%20Employee%20Data%20and%20Analysis.htm

 

[Kev3188]

DL's rate of maintenance outsourcing jumped from 26 to 40% between 2009 and 2010; 2009 was the last year NW reported as a standalone company separate from DL's stats while 2010 was the first year DL's numbers include NW.

So now we're using a YOY increase in outsourcing of "only" 14% as a good thing?

Now wonder this country is so f'ed...

 

[WorldTraveler]

holy cow.

Did you not grasp the fact that the reason why DL's rate of maintenance outsourcing jumped was because it absorbed NW who outsourced 60% of its maintenance at the time of the merger?


DL had 25% before the merger, NW had 60% and the final entity ended up with 40% which hasn't moved much since the merger.


Weren't you the one that talked about the hangars that NW got rid of?

 

[700UW]

You can post your stupid money statistics as much as you want, there is more of a cost and more components outsourced at US and other airlines.
 
Both AA and US do more in-house Airfram overhaul then any other US based airline.
 
And DL outsources ALL their own AO and most of their mods.
 
So if DL did that work in-house, how many more jobs would be added?