Siegel: Pittsburgh hub ''marginal''

[trvlr64]

----------------
On 5/4/2003 9:39:09 PM PineyBob wrote:

Let''s see if I can give you the reader''s digest version.


1. There is ample precedence of State sponsored aid to private industry. Kavearner Shipyard, a Norwegian company was given so 300 million for something like 5,000 jobb and three ship committment to relocate at the now defunct PHL Naval Shipyard. The Eagle, Steeler, Phillies & Pirates have visited the public trough smorgasboad with count''em 4 new stadiums totaling nearly a Billion Dollars.


2. PA can ill afford the additional loss of one job at PIT or PHL. If we can provide "Corporate Welfare" for the above companies then they can aford to do it for US!

----------------​

PineyBob maybe that''s the problem in the age of ENRON and WORLDCOM. People have witnessed the greed of corporations and their management. Maybe it''s time to stop both the state and government intervention into businesses that want help. Only the strong will survive is a nice way to look at it. I still think that if Dave would have been honest with Roddey and crew during the BK, this issue would never have surfaced. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

 

[Todd B]

Please avoid directing personal comments towards another member.

 

[cavalier]

----------------
On 5/5/2003 3:25:54 AM Todd B wrote:

Please avoid directing personal comments towards another member.

----------------


Sorry you misunderstood, it''s a complement Mr. Mod. This guy tells us all how he got people fired by back stabbing them, but of course he sugar coats his actions and justifies them with something about food on his table. He can go on and on ranting all over these boards spouting all his wisdom but how dare I call him to task least the Mod back hands me. Ok, I don''t own or run these boards and I respect that fact. I will drop it by saying I was just stating my opinion and frankly I thought it was a good suggestion, a perfect screen name for a man of such deep wisdom. We are all lucky to have the opportunity to read his words. Again I apologize for stepping on anyone’s toes Mr. Mod.
​

 

[MarkMyWords]

trvlr64,

I would like to respond to a couple of things that you said in one of your posts.....

PHL was originally a "Hub" city for Eastern. When Eastern went out of business, Midway tried to develope PHL into an east coast hub. After their demise, US increased their presence in PHL to a "Hub" status. We did have a strong presence in PHL, but didn''t turn it into a Hub until after Eastern and Midway went bankrupt and abandoned their presence there.

I do agree with your points of view in many of your postings. The biggest being that Choices, Service and Frequency are the most important factors when a customer chooses who gets their almighty dollar. I would also say that Price factors in with these other three factors. U''s current 178.00 fares to the West Coast are not a tactic of U trying to push America West out of PIT, but it is a competetive response to the fares that HP set when they came into the PIT market. Would you as a customer pay US 350.00 to fly to LAX non-stop versus paying 178.00 to fly HP with a connection in PHX? So price definitly plays a huge part in wooing customers.

As for the cat and mouse game between US and the county/state government, I do agree that this was pretty dirty pool on the part of the company. You are absolutely right that with the smaller aircraft WE chose to fly into PIT has reduced the number of customers here, thus increasing the cost per pax. So yes, the company is partly responsible for the increase cost per passenger. But let''s look at this from a business stand point. Let''s say that you are Dave and you know that the writing is already on the walls for your PIT station. You know that you can not sustain flying all these mainline airplanes in and out of here and that the RJ/SJ is a better match for demand out of PIT. As more RJ/SJ airplanes come into the company you will phase more and more cites to the RJ/SJ flying. Since PIT will become your major operator of those airplanes, you will need to support those same airplanes with offices, hangars for Maintenance, training facilites for crews, etc. You are a very cash starved company right now and every penny counts. Wouldn''t you, as CEO, want to try anything and everything to get as much "free stuff" as possible? If you knew that you could use your current position to "extort" money from the local government, wouldn''t you play that card too? Granted, 21 minutes prior to your exit from bankruptcy is a little shady and questionable, but it was a card played none the less. Every aspect of expense in the company has to be scrutinized to the N''th degree. If there is an avenue available to cut costs, and you still aren''t showing a profit, wouldn''t you play the same card.....even if it was in a different fashion? What if being up front in the begining would have cost you all that political support when the scales of balance between chapter 11 and chapter 7 were so critical? Wouldn''t you play it a little more conservative and squeeze the PA government for all it is worth, then drop the bomb? Maybe, maybe not....hind sight is always 20/20.

Lastly, let me say that it pains me to hear a good customer talk about taking thier business elsewhere. Whether you agree with the management of this company or not, the 29,000 men and women that work here do appreciate your flying with us. It is my sincere hopes that you will always remain a loyal and true US customer. If there is ever anything that I, or any of the other dedicated employees on this board can do to ensure that we meet or exceed your expectations, please feel free to call upon us at any time. Distinguishing oursleves above the competition has always been a mark of pride in our company and with the hard working employees. We wish to continue to offer you the best price, the most convenient schedule with frequent flights to your destination(s) and the highest quality of service that you have come to expect. While we maybe going through some changes now, I am confident that when it is all said and done, we will be able to provide you with the 3 things that are most important to you.

Mark

 

[brandnewsin1]

that was a really good post. and your right.....this is EXTORTION. To the highest degree. Seigel has some big cajones to pull this garbage. He did meet a crook as big as him, however, when he met Ed Rendell.

Would you by a used car off either of these men?
Would you be happy if your daughter brought them home?

No matter who you believe, you''re screwed.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

I think that many here are letting thier regional loyalties over shadow logic and reason.

(1) It''s simply about the costs of operating from this place or that. The CLT cost comparison makes that plain as day when going head to head against PIT in current dollar ratios.

(2) Nothing can be said about the actual quality of one hub Vs. another. The North South dispute is insane considering how intergrated this airline has become over time.

(3) Yes I''m from CLT..but PIT has made me a very welcome person within thier ranks. I''m proud to be part of PIT Heavy Maintenance..but I also welcome a chance to go home in due time. I happen to have a real good deal going for me in Moon Township ,away from work too. I have never had a single member of that community refer to me as a "Billy-Bob "..nor have I called them a "Damn Yankee" or a "Hoopie". The folks there have basically adopted me , for lack of better terms ...and new friends have been made for life!!

(4) I consider PIT to be one of the finest airports in the world...and certainly IMHO , no other airport can handle adverse weather operations the way these folks do. The Airport Authority in PIT has my respect in every manner on this subject too.

(5) CLT has done what any business wishes it could do...It built for current demands , with flex built into the plan to meet future needs. Jerry Orr and Company is not a bunch of Slack-Jawed Yocals when compaired to any Airport leadership group , past or present.

(5) The debate of PIT Vs.CLT Heavy Maintenance is equally childish..and borders on pure stupidity. The CLT loss of the 737 Maintenance made sense , especially for those with PIT roots. The DC-9 Fleet was out-going..as were the MD-80''s , Actually 9-11 helped push an "Albatross" (Fokker F-100''s) out the door in a faster manner...and Thank God too!!

CLT can now concentrate and use it''s superior sized and equipped facility to handle the Heavies...and PIT has it''s niche with the Baby Boeings and the occasional Airbus , now that the Mods are done. Hey, work for everyone for now , Right? Well for those remaining anyway.

(6) My only knock on PIT is this...It banked everything on USAir...CLT built for Piedmonts and Easterns needs of the day...and Thank God Piedmont filled the void created by Easterns down fall. PIT also only addressed the "Air-Side of it''s airport. The Maintenance Hangars are beyond "Sub-Standard" Thier age / size and capablities are limited...but resourceful employee''s make it work and endure in kind.

PIT''s Hangar Facilities are purely nasty and way over priced for what they are...and Yes they need to be taken to task on this. I''m actually afraid to use the restrooms there...and many have complained about having wet uniforms in thier lockers because of numerous leaks in the roofs of Hangars 1 and 2...Hell , my office leaks to the point it''s an electrical hazard...and a source for OJI''s.

PIT was only dealing with one side of the coin...and Judgement Day is in the offing for some horrible short-sightedness over the years.

No one wants to see both PIT and CLT live in harmony more than I do...but issues have to be addressed. The best hopes are to get this issue between U and PIT out of the press and resolved quickly. I think both sides are making themselves look stupid in the News Media!!

MDA is going to happen...and 737''s are going to have to be fixed somewhere? Make the Call...and Let''s Roll on this..One way or another..don''t let people sit and stew anymore.

The final issue is how to fix PHL? The operaton is a bit of a mess to say the least.

I as a Non-Rev ,I am sick of "Ground Holds in PIT , due to traffic issues in PHL...this is compounded when the hold involve 2 Rolls-Royce Engines burning fuel while waiting...then waiting for 15 to 30 minutes for a gate in PHL upon a delayed arrival. Keep in mind that fuel is still burning during this...and paying passengers are getting a bit more than ticked off during all this.

Try to remember..We are all on the same team here..Keeping the team on the field and trying to win is all that matters.

 

[cavalier]

----------------
On 5/5/2003 10:05:00 PM AOG-N-IT wrote:



AOG--thanks for the post I always enjoy reading your stuff, I will stop by and say hello sometime.

TO PINEYBOB---Peace Brother! I have a friend who worked at the big X as you did/do or whatever...anyway he was burned at the stake because he didn''t fit into "their" mold and had to leave the company over it all...so I do believe what you are saying...again PEACE and keep flying U, while it''s still here Cav
​

 

[cavalier]

I work for a large asian manufacturer in the same industry.

Do you have to fly to the land of SARS? If so, check out this site for updates and also the CDC site.
[url="http://www.earthfiles.com/headlines.cfm?category=Headline+News"]http://www.earthfiles.com/headlines.cfm?ca...y=Headline+News[/URL]​

 

[AOG-N-IT]

----------------
On 5/5/2003 11:18:14 PM cavalier wrote:




----------------
On 5/5/2003 10:05:00 PM AOG-N-IT wrote:



AOG--thanks for the post I always enjoy reading your stuff, I will stop by and say hello sometime.

Cavalier,
Sir, I do not profess to be a modern day "Cheerleader" of what "Our" company has evolved too. Yet my friend I believe in what it can be!!..or be again!!

I bristle at seeing buttons handed put to employee''s of this company , when these same people are having the guts and hearts stomped out of those remaining. This is hardly the dollars I hoped for being spent on the concessions and worse that many have made to date.

I am not a fan of Fluff...but a Champion in pursuit of tangible results. Banners , Buttons and full page Ads are niether.

U has not lost it''s core loyalist customers to this point. We have lost the loyalty of our business travelers to a great degree...and comprimised our credibility within many of the areas that we have/do serve to this point.

Buttons and Employee Photo-shoots will never change these facts. I myself fly out of both hubs on a fairly weekly basis...I can tell you that the money spent on Employee "Thank You" buttons is a great waste of our concessionary and DIP money.

To this day , I have yet to encounter a soul in either of our three major hubs wearing one. Then lets add in the time and effort put forth about how to display them on company "Uniformed Employee''s".

Frankly , The idiots that deemed this necessary and worth while? , Should be on the outside looking in today!! Having them shot would be a crime..but almost worth the penalty of doing so in some respects. I do not advocate violence..but I''ll give a lot for logic being used.

This is an airline and nothing more!! It''s about moving people from point A to B in a safe and efficient manner. Buttons and Banners will never be a substitute for this concept. It''s about Phucking Do...or Phucking Don''t...Spare me the symantics in beteween , and use the DIP money ..and our money wisely to make "Doing" a plausable reality again!!

BTW...My Office in PIT is always an open door to people whom think and do. I welcome meeting you at work....and if I meet you in Moon? The first adult beverage is on me!!

Keep it positive!! Keep it real!!..and first and foremost , Keep "US" Flying!! That''s the goal in life from my perspective.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

----------------
On 5/5/2003 5:59:25 PM MarkMyWords wrote:

As for the cat and mouse game between US and the county/state government, I do agree that this was pretty dirty pool on the part of the company.
----------------​

So, if a cat and a mouse play dirty pool, who breaks?

What makes it dirty? Does the mouse REALLY want to play?

Are there dogs playing poker in the next room?

 

[delldude]

www.post-gazette.com/pg/03126/182593.stm
before the years end,all will be happy in PIT.big photo op down road this summer with smiling jim roddey,davey siegel and ''fast eddie'' rendell.
MDA comes to PIT,jobs for everyone....airbus hangar for mainline.
Daves sorry he shook you up and created a media ''titanic'' for all involved in Pa.

 

[cavalier]

Are there dogs playing poker in the next room?

----------------

Just like the 1994 movie "Maverick" when they all pulled out guns and start shooting....​

 

[mrman]

I think what is enlightening in this debate is no one is discussing the airports from a passenger point of view. The discussions don''t even discuss IMHO what should be the number one desicion maker, the customer

 

[pitflyer]

I think we discussed one airport against the other (while CLT is a little narrower than I''d like, it''s a fine airport) but it doesn''t really matter because Siegel made one real point -- MOST people won''t pay EXTRA to fly through Pittsburgh.. I added the word [MOST] because I know some who would (to fly through a particular hub rather than another) ..

 

[FlyingHippie]

----------------
On 5/6/2003 9:12:17 AM RowUnderDCA wrote:

----------------
On 5/5/2003 5:59:25 PM MarkMyWords wrote:

As for the cat and mouse game between US and the county/state government, I do agree that this was pretty dirty pool on the part of the company.
----------------​

So, if a cat and a mouse play dirty pool, who breaks?

What makes it dirty? Does the mouse REALLY want to play?

Are there dogs playing poker in the next room?

----------------​

Gee whiz it''s come down to comparing animal acts to animal behavior by corporate managers? What ever happened to ethics in business? Did I miss something or did Dave and the gang flunk this course in business school? Isn''t ethics what''s separates humans from animals?