Siegel: Pittsburgh hub ''marginal''

[Phoenix]

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On 5/2/2003 9:08:30 AM nycbusdriver wrote:

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On 5/1/2003 10:32:09 PM Phoenix wrote:

If I were the Mayor of PIT I would tell the ungrateful leaches to pay the $#%(* rent or get the &$#$*# out.

Then I would call Herb and offer him a blue light special on a beautiful facility.

If I lost my job as mayor... so what?  I''ve been looking for an excuse to move to Florida.

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You''re kidding, right?....----------------​

No.

It is a free market.

If no other carrier can come in and make money (or a combination of carriers) then why the H@#!! is USAIR still trying to make money? Quit pretending you are doing them a “favorâ€￾ by flying there.

Pay the rent with a smile on your face, or Leave already.

PIT will cry crocodile tears if Austin takes his ball and goes home.

 

[trvlr64]

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On 5/2/2003 6:49:05 PM LavMan wrote:


Trvlr,  you are wrong, guess you have not been to CLT this past summer when they just opened an exclusive brand new express terminal.

............

Oh I have been through both express terminals many times. Guess you haven''t been through PHL''s. I was just in PHL''s this week, twice and in CLT''s 3 times just 2 weeks ago. PHL''s is much nicer than CLT''s. And there''s a USAirways Club inside the Express terminal at PHL that CLT doesn''t have. Sorry, but you''re wrong and you didn''t read my posting thoroughly. Obviously you don''t spend as much time in your airports or on your planes like I do. I''m a US1.

 

[cavalier]

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On 5/2/2003 2:12:35 PM LavMan wrote:


Cav are you scared?

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I don''t know what you are ranting about here, no clue?

You are not even a true good ole boy but just a transplant, the true southern folks don''t act like a NY fast and loud talker. You know what''s really funny is I am just stirring the pot and you fell in I play with ham/amateur radio for years now and just about ALL my radio buddies live in the south, and yes in Charlotte too. There is a certain frequency we hang out on and also where the and NY and New Jersey crowd hangs. They are called the cock roaches, name given by the southern guys and if you hear these very loud and at times irritating guys, it is very fitting. So Lav, are you a cockroach, or a reformed and mild mannered southern gentleman....Hmmmm.

My favorite music is southern rock and blue grass so without the south I would be in trouble.

PS: Scared is a spiritual state brought on by many things and working at U or reading these boards sure doesn''t have that affect on me.
PSS: Cock Roaches can be heard on 3910 MHZ nightly

 

[N628AU]

trvlr64,

The CLT Express Concourse in actually only open as Phase I out of 3 total phases. Expansion plans put it at over 50 gates when it is said and done, with continued expansion off the north wing of the concourse.

Right now a club is not necessary as there is one right upstairs at the junction of D and C concourses, that opened a few years ago. They are getting a Fox Sports Skybox restaurant down there as well.

A lot of this was planned for the original opening, but the City put some projects on hold to see exactly what happened after 9/11. The third parallel runway project is now back rolling, and I am sure we will see more take place if/when US needs it. A club on the Express concourse is something I would expect to see.

Say what you want about the facilities, but I will take the Express personnel in CLT over those in PHL anyday.

 

[delldude]

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On 5/2/2003 5:28:45 PM firstamendment wrote:

Actions speak louder than words:

In the past five years

PHL- Brand new international terminal
PHL- Basically new hanger
PHL- New and huge express terminal

CLT- Brand new addition to international terminal
CLT- New and huge express terminal
CLT- Brand new hanger added
CLT- Beautiful addition to training center

PIT-


Enough said.

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well then it looks like it may be time for PIT with your comparison.they are looking for a rj training and maint.facility...a facility to do airbuses up to 321...some gate mods and the like.when its all said and done i think you''ll see smiling roddey,rendell and dave/daves.they tried their strong arm alabama boosheet and it backfired in the local medias.they seem to be a little more forth coming in the last couple of days between allegheny county,state an the company...more soft tones it seems as of late..only time will tell.

 

[PITbull]

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On 5/1/2003 1120 PM cavalier wrote:


Charlotte offers a highly productive work force for companies concerned about the quality of their products or services. Studies show that North Carolina workers are more productive than their counterparts nationally.

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Pittsburgh is where very hard working families lived and died in the mills and that work ethic was pasted along. Proof in point, PITTSBURGH HVY Maintenance always did and will continue to blow Charlotte Hvy Mtc out of the water. It’s FACT. Pittsburgh has some of the BEST colleges in the country, and is world renowned for it's medical centers. One reason Charotte is growing is because companies know full well how a southern boy will work for nothing and hates unions. Yes, I think the southern boys are all mostly friendly and I actually enjoy the drawl, but they work just as slow as they talk.


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Cavalier,

I happen to agree with you 200% with regard to the value of Pittsburgh Airport with IMO the best mechanics in the system. Folks forget Pittsburgh IS A HUB CITY. The debt ACAA is staddled with is directly related to USAirways demands in the early 90s when the Airport project was being negotiated. As a resident of Pittsburgh I can tell you that we have this debt because of USAirways. Now we have a new mangement team who has no honor and believes capitalism and the $$$ is more important than employees and people. And we hear on this board seem to be congratulating this management for having this forsight to walk away yet again from their obligations and promises. It's like we are saying "good job" management glad you included Pittsburgh airport and the surrounding communities to SCREW as well.

Gee guys, what happened to good faith negotiations (remeber that) and keeping your word. I do know this with regard to negotiations...when trust is gone from either parties, the rules go "out the door". Is this any way to operate? Is this what many of you would consider good business practice? Are is someone going to start with the %#$# that this is the "new reality" screw everyone in business that you can, don't keep your word, continue with bad faith negotiations, and let the $ rule the day?

 

[deelmakur]

It is an unfortunate fact of life that PIT and PHL are pretty close together distance-wise. As to quality, they are light years apart. As a US1, I use both, and there is no comparison. PIT wins hands down on every score. To me it's pretty simple. One was built after the development of the hub and spoke concept, and reflects lessons learned. The other is a conversion, with narrow concourses, congested taxiways, and small gate areas, which produce much different ontime performance. Whether by design, happenstance, or ineptitude, this managmement continues to predicate the revival of the airline on the emphasis of its weaker assets (PHL, Express, etc.). Now before all the good folks at Express take offense, I am not criticizing you per se. As a regular customer, I can tell you that once Express is substituted for Mainline on a route, it just isn't the same (and I'm not just talking about upgrades, although they are the linchpin of any successful loyalty program). This past weekend I had to use Delta because I couldn't get a seat on US at any reasonable fare. That put me through ATL, which I haven't done in a long time. Why anybody would do that in lieu of CLT, assuming they have a choice, is beyond me. USAirways has incredible built in advantages in those smaller, less congested hubs. Yet, the management seems to be fixated on the size of the Philadelphia market, and seems to believe the salvation of the company is in driving O&D yields from there. It kind of makes you wonder if they really grasp the nature of the company they are trying to run. You also wonder if they ever get out and use the system. If they did, they might understand the customer base a little better.

 

[trvlr64]

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On 5/3/2003 12:33:27 AM N628AU wrote:


trvlr64,


The CLT Express Concourse in actually only open as Phase I out of 3 total phases. Expansion plans put it at over 50 gates when it is said and done, with continued expansion off the north wing of the concourse.


Right now a club is not necessary as there is one right upstairs at the junction of D and C concourses, that opened a few years ago. They are getting a Fox Sports Skybox restaurant down there as well.


A lot of this was planned for the original opening, but the City put some projects on hold to see exactly what happened after 9/11. The third parallel runway project is now back rolling, and I am sure we will see more take place if/when US needs it. A club on the Express concourse is something I would expect to see.


Say what you want about the facilities, but I will take the Express personnel in CLT over those in PHL anyday.

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Phase 1 out of 3?! Well the PAX only see what is there now. And in my opinion again, PHL Express is much nicer than CLT Express. Maybe when CLT is finished with all phases my view will change. But for now it won't. The point of my posting was to remind LavMan that CLT is not the epicenter of U. The ridiculous rantings of PHL vs CLT vs PIT is getting old. Again, your job now is to make U thrive and survive. But maybe it would have been better if U flew off into the sunset. We'll see.

And as for the personnel in PHL vs CLT. I will agree with you there. PHL needs a total fire and rehire. But it's the PHL attitude that needs an adjustment there.

 

[X-U]

This thread reads much like the ones of a few months ago when the Daves were going after labor. Interested parties must keep in mind that the Daves have no allegiance; including any geographical one, to anything but $$$.
When they are finished with PIT and PA, they will move on to CLT and NC taxpayers. The question is how much of the taxpayers money will go to the bonuses that are awarded when it''s all over.

 

[delldude]

hey cav...lets put in an employee suggestion to fed-x it overnite next time...don''t tell dave we get 70% discount too.

 

[cavalier]

When they are finished with PIT and PA, they will move on to CLT and NC taxpayers. The question is how much of the taxpayers money will go to the bonuses that are awarded when it''s all over.
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I wager you are dead wrong and when it''s over the PA politicians will have given U everything it wants to keep the jobs and the votes required to stay in power. Going forward the pattern of brain dead decisions made by the mid level management will continue to amuse and entertain us the working drones, true stories such as these will be normal: A small nut for a A/C dome cover was badly needed at Pit recently and the only one in the system was of course in Charlotte. No planes coming out of Charlotte at the time axed the idea of flying it up. So for whatever reason the decision was made to use the services of a flat bed truck, BIG FLAT BED TRUCK and its well compensated driver to expedite the important nut, the size by the way easily fitting into ones fist. Upon arrival at Pit the truck driver was greeted by anxious personal waiting for the nut and asked the driver as he approached them with out stretched hand where the nut was. The driver replied it was unlawful to carrier cargo on their person, so he turned and went back to the flat bed where a single strap was fastened down across the flat bed which held that one little nut. When the driver released the strap he proceeded to crawl around on the flat bed and in a few minutes announced that the nut was lost. Duuuh, no kidding. This asinine decision to use a flat bed was made after Dave sliced and diced everything including many of my fellow mechanics who are no doubt wiser than the management personal who chose to us a flat bed truck to deliver a small nut which was lost in the process costing the company dearly with zero results. I hope upper management does read these boards and looks into this, one of many foolish decisions made by people Dave insisted we need to retain for our success. Of course to hid this fiasco it will be said this was just an internet hoax, but the sorry truth is, it’s not.




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[N628AU]

Why the h@ll did they not airtaxi that nut? It would have been faster and price competitve with the truck I am sure. Absolutely ridiculous. As one who used to organize these trips, I can tell you that it would not be the first time something like this happened. Unfortunately, it will not be the last.

Trvlr64,

At least in CLT you can get from the Express concourse to the rest of the gates. In PHL, your choices are to take the bus or go thru security again.

Regardless, each of the hubs has their own plusses and minuses. You can make a case and argue it successfully for any of the three. The problem that PIT has is cost. Regardless of the root of the cost issues, PIT must either prove the facility is worth paying three times as much per passenger (I can''t see how they can do that) to use it, or bring it''s costs in line. I ask again, what can PIT deliver that CLT cannot?

 

[Ace_Hardrive]

Cavalier,

FIRST..."you southren boys need to learn to spell" My bad, a typo not a misspell. (BTW I was born and raised in Indiana)

SECOND..."the never ending north south battle is ending here with me right here right now..." That would be alright with me since it was you that started it (on this thread that is). "One reason Charotte(opps you northren boys said you could spell) is growing is because companies know full well how a southren boy will work for nothing and hates unions."

THIRD..."when I come to your hometown to make my living after Dave is finished, give me and all the Pittsburgh boys a hug, we do have big time seniority you know…" Is that so. Our lowest agent on the ramp, and I mean the last man on the full time bid has 16 1/2 years with the company. We have part timers with over 20 years. But by all means come on down, that is if you don''t mind Tue''s Wed''s off. "...can you spell Lead" ??? Can you spell Contract? Before you start packing your bags for CLT you might want to read your(Fleet Service)contract. The section about Station closings and displacements might be of keen intrerest to you!

FOURTH…."At least the SH walls will not be filled with the southern boys hate filled messages, badly misspelled of course, about Pittsburgh and it’s people when Dave is through with U" What???

FOURTH..."Have a Nice Day__ my southern friends……….Love Cavalier" Hey that''s another "FOURTH" That''s two FOURTHs! What happen to FIFTH? I guess you must have drunk one before you wrote this reply. Anyway a good day to you as well my friend.

ACE

 

[firstamendment]

trvir64,

Do you want to know what is stupid?

A city that doesn''t seem to get it when it comes to the changing airline industry. You speak of the new PIT airport built 12 years ago. By industry standards 12 years is a long time. For your information, I remember when CLT was a nothing airport and it surpassed PIT in it''s efficiency. Then PIT got a new airport which was waaaaaaaayyyyyy overdue and sat back with aging facilities on the exterior. Your city is worst than the people you are blaming. Talk of threatening. "We want to speak with one voice" In otherwords, if you don''t like it, pull out.

The other U cities have been willing to understand the CURRENT needs of the industry and have expanded accordingly. Gotten out of your tiny part of the world lately to see that? They aren''t living in 12 years ago. They have gone forward.

You seem to be so angry at U but you respond like a typical American airline passenger....whinning, complaining and entitled to everything and wanting to pay nothing. If your city wants to keep U, then pony up. If not, buh bye. U does not need PIT.

You know this is my opinion and frankly I could care less what anyone thinks. I hope we leave PIT. They are not and have not been aggressive in it''s support of U (oh I forgot that new terminal). We do not need 2 hubs in PA. As long as PHL is a moneymaker it is here to stay.

I resent those that are always crying SOUTHWEST. Fine. Welcome Southwest. They are not the savior. Check out DOT stats and you WILL discover our operation to be far better. Did SWA come up first in the WSU survey that has become a true guide to airline service? NO!! Who was first? Yep, US Airways. So go for it ''burghers. Lets'' see how many folks come rushing to your new convention center when all you have to offer is service to all the various hub cities.

Many have said (again..me me me) the fares out of PIT would be lower if U was out and others came in. Be careful what you ask for. Those cheap tickets you think SWA has across the board disappear when they are the only game in town, so your nonstop issue is void.

US Airways needs to spresd out the flying. Those aircraft left over from a PIT closing could be used for more point to point service or for more expansion into Central and northern South America. They could also be used to TRUELY build our eastcoast presence by offering our large customers transcons from BOS and NYC. Yes, it is competitive but we DO have the customer base.

Looked at the ATTACHE'' mag lately? Lots of codeshare flights out of DEN, who will also need to lower their cost. UAL needs to cut back a hub. We need to spread out the flying. We are attached to this alliance and I feel both companies will make this so close to a merged operation it will seem we are one. If U were to close PIT, take over DEN with her extra aircraft and UAL slims down IAD to transcon and international, the U/UAL alliance would be successful because the flying of both airlines would make more sense. And, for those always looking for the two to someday merge, the plan would be in play.

For the PIT faithful, don''t take this so personally. It''s a business. Maybe you could take part of that beautiful 12 year old terminal and turn it into housing. You could make beautiful apts located steps from the mall and the proceeds can pay for the 12 year old airport and the new stadiums in your cashstrapped city.

 

[cavalier]

BAG SMASHER, I get a BAG SMASHER responding...Oh well at least I was heard.

SH walls is just that, SH walls. When all the southern boys came up the first time in the early 90''s the SH wall....MEN''S room walls were full of love letters telling us all how much they were enjoying the stay. Although the West coast boys hated Pit even more because it was OLD, one message stated; yes old and not like the NEW west coast, I think that message was particularly funny. They all were funny, a venting vehicle for transplanted disgruntled U workers from all over the country. And guess what, they are back but I don''t see the messages this time around. I bet it''s because all the unhappy workers are no longer with U.
I have a neighbor ramper who lives down the street from me. This guy has been off for almost a year and a half on OI due to minor surgery and should have been back in no more than 3 months. So, ACE, tell me the secret, how come the rampers can get away with this without being fired and we the mechanics can''t even get a FMLA without being harassed? How do you guys accomplish this?

Love ---Cav