Airline's (pit) Departure May Ripple Outward
- Thread starter USA320Pilot
- Start date
AKA_trvlr64
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- Oct 10, 2003
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Bob..........as US1's we should pull out our PLATINUM cards and buy A320Pilot his own A330. Or would he prefer a 747 painted in a mixed UA/US livery? Then he can fly around the world spreading the Gospel by A320Pilot.PineyBob said:
ClueByFour
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,566
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I don't particularly care for being called out, so either quote a source or retract your statement.USA320Pilot said:
From a logical standpoint, it's absurd to think that CCY would allow anyone, esepecially a non-MEC U line pilot to have such information (unless using such an outlet to spread FUD).
That said, if you are in the posession of such information, it's almost certainly an SEC violation on your part to post it without naming the source and hoping that such information is public already.
So, in a nutshell, source it or retract it. My speculation and postulations are based on published information. I find it funny to be refuted by unnamed sources whose sentiments cannot be found any public place, but now I'm bored with it.
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
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Uhhhh... Gee Sherlock, maybe it's because there is nothing to your reports.USA320Pilot said:
Do you like when people spread misinformation about you or someone or something you care about?
Neither do we. DELETED Is this such a hard concept for you to comprehend?
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
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Ohhhhhhh! Now it all makes sense! A reporter from USA Today told you so. And I thought it was just a little birdie who told you. :blink:USA320Pilot said:
I will say it again... Did it ever occur to you that maybe UA's ATSB application is "being held hostage" by USAir's possible default?
Did it ever occur to you that the ATSB has told United that it must find an additional $200Million per year savings to offset any loss of revenue from the probable liquidation of USAir. They don't want us counting on that revenue when there is a strong possibility it won't be there.
What part of this are you not comprehending?
As someone else pointed out, UA and USAir's prospects for survival are rapidly diverging. Better dust off that resume my friend. :down:
ONTHESTREET
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- Aug 20, 2002
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320
I have a couple of questions concerning a possible merger.
1 Why would UAL want to buy USAirways in its current condition? We offer them almost nothing except a huge debt load.
2 Why would UAL want to merge with a failing airline and have to merge its pilot group in with UAL pilots. This seems very stupid considering the senority that USAir has. Our most junior guy is 14+ years. If I were running UAL and wanted certian parts of U I would wait until Ch7 and buy the assets without the baggage of the top of scale employees, specifically the pilots. Why merge top of scale pilots when you could hire the same ones as new hires for 1st year pay?
3 What makes you think that the merger now would be any better than it was in 2000? Granted we are smaller now but as I said before we bring nothing to the table except a bunch of older pilots that are close to retirement and are very expensive to bring on the property, a few intnl. routes that UAL doesn't need, some domestic markets that are being overrun by the LCC's, and a couple hundred airplanes that we owe gobs of money on.
320, I know that a merger would be nice. And in the pilots case (me included) it would be great. However I think you are letting your wishful thinking cloud your judgement. I may be wrong, but I am not betting my career on this UCT you keep talking about.
If I were thinking of buying USAir assests I would make sure I didn't have to bring the 15+ year payscales and retirements into the picture. I know this is harsh for someone in your position, but that is the way I see it.
I think that if you want to see USAirs future you have to look no further than Pan-Am and Eastern. In my observations this is the future we look forward to at the carrier of choice.
I have a couple of questions concerning a possible merger.
1 Why would UAL want to buy USAirways in its current condition? We offer them almost nothing except a huge debt load.
2 Why would UAL want to merge with a failing airline and have to merge its pilot group in with UAL pilots. This seems very stupid considering the senority that USAir has. Our most junior guy is 14+ years. If I were running UAL and wanted certian parts of U I would wait until Ch7 and buy the assets without the baggage of the top of scale employees, specifically the pilots. Why merge top of scale pilots when you could hire the same ones as new hires for 1st year pay?
3 What makes you think that the merger now would be any better than it was in 2000? Granted we are smaller now but as I said before we bring nothing to the table except a bunch of older pilots that are close to retirement and are very expensive to bring on the property, a few intnl. routes that UAL doesn't need, some domestic markets that are being overrun by the LCC's, and a couple hundred airplanes that we owe gobs of money on.
320, I know that a merger would be nice. And in the pilots case (me included) it would be great. However I think you are letting your wishful thinking cloud your judgement. I may be wrong, but I am not betting my career on this UCT you keep talking about.
If I were thinking of buying USAir assests I would make sure I didn't have to bring the 15+ year payscales and retirements into the picture. I know this is harsh for someone in your position, but that is the way I see it.
I think that if you want to see USAirs future you have to look no further than Pan-Am and Eastern. In my observations this is the future we look forward to at the carrier of choice.
US320Pilot: Firstly, I do not know how to do the "Quotes" but you stated "if there is nothing to my reports, then why to posters respond'? Firstly, we have "passion", secondly we have "intellegence" and thirdly we all just want you to "feel good about yourself". For it does appear you are living in a different world then "most" of us are. It is amazing that you seeminly have all of these "facts" to present to all of "morons" but we yet to have heard it out of the mouth that matters. Your buddy Dave. :down:
"Out of the woodwork, into the fire"
As the previous poster indicated, I think sometimes the absurdity level gets so high, it forces even the casual observer to react to some of the lunacy flying around. Reading some of the posts is more sad than anything else, like watching a train wreck in slow motion, or ready the diary of a lunatic in their last days.
As the previous poster indicated, I think sometimes the absurdity level gets so high, it forces even the casual observer to react to some of the lunacy flying around. Reading some of the posts is more sad than anything else, like watching a train wreck in slow motion, or ready the diary of a lunatic in their last days.
bigbusdrvr
Senior
- Mar 2, 2003
- 366
- 12
- Banned
- #69
I don't think he means for UAL to buy U...... Bronner has the bucks and not the sense to try an put the 2 together... I think its gonna be a long summer...
In all deference to the United folks, I am afraid you may be in for a rude awakening.... But we U folks are livin the dream(nightmare) , we will help!!!!!!!!!!
In all deference to the United folks, I am afraid you may be in for a rude awakening.... But we U folks are livin the dream(nightmare) , we will help!!!!!!!!!!
Finish or Ignore
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- Aug 30, 2002
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frankbooth
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- Aug 20, 2002
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320 Pilot,
I say this in all seriousness. Take a step back, spend time with the wife and kids and realize that is your life, not this crappy industry we've called a job for the last (well, many years).
I was furloughed almost a year ago today and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I went right back to an Air Force Pilot job, making more money than I would if I was still at the airline (word of warning to all class enviers, ie 28yrsnojob, Lt Col's in the AF who are pilots make more than most airline types and I'm even home more). Of course, I also get shot at more, so we'll call it a wash.
No one, especially you, knows what is going to occur in the next few months. Given your prediction track record I'm a bit surprised you're even opening your pie-hole.
Now is a great time to glory in the wonder of the unspoken thought.
I say this in all seriousness. Take a step back, spend time with the wife and kids and realize that is your life, not this crappy industry we've called a job for the last (well, many years).
I was furloughed almost a year ago today and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I went right back to an Air Force Pilot job, making more money than I would if I was still at the airline (word of warning to all class enviers, ie 28yrsnojob, Lt Col's in the AF who are pilots make more than most airline types and I'm even home more). Of course, I also get shot at more, so we'll call it a wash.
No one, especially you, knows what is going to occur in the next few months. Given your prediction track record I'm a bit surprised you're even opening your pie-hole.
Now is a great time to glory in the wonder of the unspoken thought.
Question for the often wrong and misinformed DELETED BY MODERATOR.
In the Article you linked saying UAL was not going to make the ATSB threshold and UA was lookin to cut retiree benefits (adding cost of coverage). Could you not surmise that the UAL mgmnt. team is identifying all the cost that are available to cut while in Bk. Much harder to get these cuts when not reorganizing. In fact this is the perfect time to do all the house cleaning and review of all the cost. If you want you can read the USA Today article again and it details that unlike UAL, U spent too little time reorganizing and is paying the price now. Just look to the AGAA deals. In Ch11 they might have had an easier time of it. Instead they were fighting over a barrel to get the deal done.
On the omnibus issue: Why not lock in a schedule for Jude Wedenoff? Take you best dates and lock them in. As I understand the banks are happy with the loan projections and any addtional cuts by cost within the company are toward the bottom line.
You also said UAL was cutting the MIA domicile to better the bottom line. If you would care to read the entire report you will find some interesting information. While MIA will close a domicile there were only 88 pilots based there and about 200 F/A's. With only GRU and EZE as base depts. and AA increasing MIA service it made sense to move the EZE flight to ORD (rumored for many months) and use the GRU aircraft for the new ZRH service. This allows for total evening of the flights offered. The MIA domestic service will not change as most of the SA flights were O and D traffic.
UAL has already cancelled non-hub Intl service since 9/11. BOS-LHR and EWR-LHR are two that come to mind. Redeploy the assests to the hubs and increase the feed and revenue per ticket. If you look at the financial results this has been accomplished as the revenue has outpaced the industry for the most part.
Finally, While UAL's future is not without hurdles they are significantly different from those faced by US Air. Do you not believe the UAL avvocato's are not selling this to the ATSB? You say that if U does not survive then UAL's loan app. could be rejected because of a default. However, in the article you link, Siegel, says he will sell assests and liquidate to pay the loan. So if the loan is repayed why would that hurt UAL? Also the other airlines that have received loans appear to be paying back and doing OK. Do local banks stop loaning money to homebuyers when one person defaults on a loan? NO. Each application is taken independently.
While I have many friends that work for U and I hope for there sake U survives and prospers, in its own right. For you I have trouble working up that desire. The "youre wrong, I am right" attitude you have does not allow for a true debate of the issue. The picture that comes to me when I read your replies is that you are standing at your computer with you hands over your ears while casting your mantra of "youre wrong, I am right, nah nah nah".
To all at U good luck. except to DELETED BY MODERATOR.......£$%%&&(*&^ (i feel better now)
In the Article you linked saying UAL was not going to make the ATSB threshold and UA was lookin to cut retiree benefits (adding cost of coverage). Could you not surmise that the UAL mgmnt. team is identifying all the cost that are available to cut while in Bk. Much harder to get these cuts when not reorganizing. In fact this is the perfect time to do all the house cleaning and review of all the cost. If you want you can read the USA Today article again and it details that unlike UAL, U spent too little time reorganizing and is paying the price now. Just look to the AGAA deals. In Ch11 they might have had an easier time of it. Instead they were fighting over a barrel to get the deal done.
On the omnibus issue: Why not lock in a schedule for Jude Wedenoff? Take you best dates and lock them in. As I understand the banks are happy with the loan projections and any addtional cuts by cost within the company are toward the bottom line.
You also said UAL was cutting the MIA domicile to better the bottom line. If you would care to read the entire report you will find some interesting information. While MIA will close a domicile there were only 88 pilots based there and about 200 F/A's. With only GRU and EZE as base depts. and AA increasing MIA service it made sense to move the EZE flight to ORD (rumored for many months) and use the GRU aircraft for the new ZRH service. This allows for total evening of the flights offered. The MIA domestic service will not change as most of the SA flights were O and D traffic.
UAL has already cancelled non-hub Intl service since 9/11. BOS-LHR and EWR-LHR are two that come to mind. Redeploy the assests to the hubs and increase the feed and revenue per ticket. If you look at the financial results this has been accomplished as the revenue has outpaced the industry for the most part.
Finally, While UAL's future is not without hurdles they are significantly different from those faced by US Air. Do you not believe the UAL avvocato's are not selling this to the ATSB? You say that if U does not survive then UAL's loan app. could be rejected because of a default. However, in the article you link, Siegel, says he will sell assests and liquidate to pay the loan. So if the loan is repayed why would that hurt UAL? Also the other airlines that have received loans appear to be paying back and doing OK. Do local banks stop loaning money to homebuyers when one person defaults on a loan? NO. Each application is taken independently.
While I have many friends that work for U and I hope for there sake U survives and prospers, in its own right. For you I have trouble working up that desire. The "youre wrong, I am right" attitude you have does not allow for a true debate of the issue. The picture that comes to me when I read your replies is that you are standing at your computer with you hands over your ears while casting your mantra of "youre wrong, I am right, nah nah nah".
To all at U good luck. except to DELETED BY MODERATOR.......£$%%&&(*&^ (i feel better now)
savyinvestor
Senior
- Jan 15, 2003
- 494
- 0
DELETED BY MODERATOR
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