Should US Allow Affiliates To Fly The E170 Family?

[USA320Pilot]

Light Years:

Light Years said: “Oh sure, those airplanes would remain EXCLUSIVELY for US Airways. All of those airlines are only in the business of helping out US Airways, not themselves or thier numerous other "partners." And where, preytell do the flight attendants fall in all of this? No job anywhere while the company continues to lay off F/As (having already gotten rid of over half) while brand new shiny jets in midnight blue pop up all over the place? That sounds about right, huh?

USA320Pilot comments: Part of the ALPA – US Airways discussions is to define a minimum MDA EMB-170/175 fleet count, which will likely be significant. Therefore, there will be a large number of furloughed F/A's who will be offered MDA jobs. Moreover, it’s not a reality (yet) that the EMB-170s will go to an affiliate carrier.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[Light Years]

If MAA gets 80 jets thats about 800 F/A positions. Thats not very significant when there are 5000 furloughed. But why would you care, you'd rather fly around with United F/As as long as you have your seat up front, who cares about the rest of the group.

:down:

 

[U 737 PILOT]

" Moreover, it’s not a reality (yet) that the EMB-170s will go to an affiliate carrier "
....... If ALPA caves in on this you can bet the company will find a way to make it happen !

 

[USA320Pilot]

Light Years,

Light Years said; "If MAA gets 80 jets thats about 800 F/A positions. Thats not very significant when there are 5000 furloughed. But why would you care, you'd rather fly around with United F/As as long as you have your seat up front, who cares about the rest of the group."

USA320Pilot: I understand your feelings, but GECAS could care less. They want to protect their investment and the option is to cut a deal or lose the jets all toghether. I do not like it either, but those are the cards we have been dealt.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[USA320Pilot]

U 737 Pilot:

USA320Pilot said: " Moreover, it’s not a reality (yet) that the EMB-170s will go to an affiliate carrier."

U 737 Pilot said: If ALPA caves in on this you can bet the company will find a way to make it happen!"

USA320Pilot responds: In response to a similar question to a furloughed pilot, one of our MEC members made the following comments:

MEC Member comments: I'll tell you true, if we could get anything more from the Affiliates to help out the MDA and other furloughed guys we would, believe me. Reality is that the Affiliates simply won't accept anything more, and if they don't accept it we, the MEC and the NC, can't make them do a damn thing.

All we do is lease SJ's from these companies, and our whole J4J's program, the only one in the industry I might add, negotiated with their pilots a 50% job protection for U pilots on those new deliveries, deliveries that these Affiliates bought with their own money, and who then in turn leased those planes to U so that they could be flown in USAirways colors.

And all we had as leverage in those negotiations was that we would allow these Affiliates to fly, under our scope, those leased SJ's for us, USAirways! Some leverage now, as almost every pundit in the industry is predicting our demise. And now GECAS comes along and tells us that they might start pulling SJ's off of our delivery schedule any day now, and that those SJ's will go to anybody that they want them to go to!

We are flat out of leverage, and if we weren't we wouldn't be talking about scope relief. We are in a survival mode, and we aren't just getting this from the company and GECAS. It's real, it's now, it won't go away by ignoring it, and we on the MEC and NC are dealing with it.

Dr. Bronner said it the best, and it's worth repeating. There are forces out there that are simply beyond our control, and GECAS, our Credit Rating, our Letter of a Going Concern, and the ATSB are some of those elephants, none of which help our negotiating leverage very much right about now. And to go to GECAS and tell that that, sure, you can take our deliveries away, if it makes you feel good, by God if you do our furlough pilots will get the USAirways DOH on any Affiliate that you sell them to would only result in two things....a lot of gut-splitting laughter, and every damn one of those MDA EMB's, if pulled, going directly into one of our competitor's colors.

And, it's not my job, nor, in my view, the job of anyone on the MEC, to press to test GECAS right about now just for the Hell of it. Why? If GECAS does pull every one of those MDA EMB's, we are simply going to be so far off our ATSB approved POR that, in my opinion, many stakeholders on this airline, read Bronner, may just lose the will to keep it alive.

Wish I could tell you something different, but I'd be lying to you if I did, my friend.

Respectfully submitted,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

Of course, what is unsaid here is that the "revenue stream" for US will probably be far less if Mesa (or anyone else) operates these E-jets, thanks to the "per departure" setup that is bound to follow, and you can assume that Jonney O. is not going to assume the risk of trying to finance these bad boys without making sure he gets his pound of flesh from US (in the form of the aforementioned departure fees).

Then, when US files for Chapter 11 again, or goes back for another round of vendor/partner "concessions," Jonney O. pulls an "Independence Air" with the brank spanking new E-170/175 aircraft.

The U MEC, once again, proves itself spineless. When an outside actuary looks at the numbers (and not the staff fools from ALPA who have been convinced of a UA DIP miss for about a year now) and confirms what GECAS is thinking, it would be one thing.

What we have here is yet another example of U's ALPA to sell it's young down the river to save their collective seat.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Do not be surprised that once the new SJ LOA is announced, with scope relief, that Chautauqua Airlines and US Airways sign a MOU for the Indianapolis-based carrier to provide more US Airways Express affiliate carrier service using the EMB-170.

Moreover, we could see PSA and its CRJ-200 and new CRJ-700 delivery positions "spun off" to Mesa Air Group.

It's uncertain who will acquire Allegheny/Piedmont, but that could occur after their merger later this month on March 31.

All of these positions would provide for US Airways furloughees to participate in the J4J program at 50-50 ratios.

Then the funds from these transactions could be used to pay down the loan guarantee and permit US Airways to renegotiate EBITDAR terms with the ATSB providing the Arlington-based airline to lower its unit costs to competitive levels.

From a cost perspective, these moves will lower US Airways' long-term debt going forward and reduce its loan guarantee debt as well, reducing its chance for a credit rating downgrade.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[autofixer]

Could [The sale of ] Piedmont be the airline alluded to by the group of investors who wish to start an LCC out of CLT? It would be a brilliant move...bring the old Piedmont back with new E-jets, or even 737-300s in the old PI home area with the old paint scheme and speedbird. Heck, maybe I will start looking for inversters to do this very thing myself. What do you need, only $120,000,000 to start up? I think it is do-able in a "New York" minute in Carolina...if they thought Piedmont could fly again. I probably should keep my mouth shut about this and just do it. UAIR is very, very vulnerable anywhere you look.

 

[mwereplanes]

USA320Pilot said:

"And, it's not my job, nor, in my view, the job of anyone on the MEC, to press to test GECAS right about now just for the Hell of it. Why? If GECAS does pull every one of those MDA EMB's, we are simply going to be so far off our ATSB approved POR that, in my opinion, many stakeholders on this airline, read Bronner, may just lose the will to keep it alive."

mwereplanes asks:

Why do you have a problem with that? Does that scenario frighten you to the point of accepting anything to keep this incompetent management alive? This airline alive? Do you think ALPA has the power to scare GECAS away from a seriously lucrative and potentially profitable loan package? And if you don't think it is lucrative would that be because of the management? Or would it be because of the pilots? The POR is fatally flawed. Was and is. Now Siegel looks to the employees again to bail him out of his folly. At what point do we stop 320?

This is pathetic. We will give more and more and more and still watch as we are driven to extinction by incompetence. I am amazed the pilots will not stand and fight. Fear is a powerful emotion. It clouds judgement and sanity.

mr

 

[michael707767]

Now Siegel looks to the employees again to bail him out of his folly. At what point do we stop 320?

This is pathetic. We will give more and more and more and still watch as we are driven to extinction by incompetence. I am amazed the pilots will not stand and fight.

at what point will it stop? When 320's and other senior pilots jobs are at risk. The sad thing is they are already cutting their own throats. Once they sign over the 170s to the regionals, 100+ seaters will be next.

 

[PITbull]

When we were in the summer negotiations of 2002, management stated that the 50-70 seaters would go to MAA, and the 90 seaters and up would come to mainline.

What happened to that? What the hell is ALPA doing? Now it appears that its some kind of 50/50 ratio that goes to affiliates and MAA.

 

[Light Years]

To those of you that are active, please print out that photo of the Ejet and the pay scales and hang them in the crew rooms... I think people are going to get a shock when the see the thing and realize how big it is and just whats we're talking about giving way here...

 

[mwereplanes]

Now Siegel looks to the employees again to bail him out of his folly. At what point do we stop 320?

This is pathetic. We will give more and more and more and still watch as we are driven to extinction by incompetence. I am amazed the pilots will not stand and fight.

at what point will it stop? When 320's and other senior pilots jobs are at risk. The sad thing is they are already cutting their own throats. Once they sign over the 170s to the regionals, 100+ seaters will be next.

707:

There are pilots at U who are calling for it to stop. Pilots senior to 320. Pilots who recognize incompentence and leaderless management. Who understand that giving more without standing fast for Siegels ouster is not just foolish but suicidal.

The problem is that we (of course I am not a U employee) are in a vast minority who do not fear losing our jobs. We understand that you cannot negotiate from a position of fear. We know there is risk involved and we (of course I am not a U employee) are willing to accept it. But the overwhelming majority of the pilots are deathly afraid of losing their jobs. Siegel knows it. Bronner knows it. GECAS knows it. And the spineless will prevail. But they will only lengthen the time until Seigel runs it into the ground.

The future here is bleak. 320 and his crowd are hoping against hope further concessions will save U. The only thing that will save U is a mangement who can run an airline. Unfortunately, that management does not work here.

mr

 

[PITbull]

mrplanes,

You are so correct...my heart aches for all of us.

The Lorenzos have captured our airline, these god-awful people.

I encourage the employees to hang as tough as they can, an do not let fear guide your decisions, thoughts, heart and soul.

We all must strive for "balance", at all cost and maintain "the bar"if not for us, than for the entire industry.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mwereplanes:

The last post that you cut and paste comments were not mine, thye were cut and pasted with permission from a MEC Rep.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot