Should US Allow Affiliates To Fly The E170 Family?

[USA320Pilot]

Comments from a PSA Check Airman (published with permission):

I've been reading your (MEC Member) posts and I respect you and thank you for all you're doing. However, I'm sick of xxxx (a furloughees) comments. I was furloughed in Jan 02. I am now a Check Airman on the CRJ for PSA. It's my 4th job since furlough.

He needs to understand that although theoretically he may not be able to get higher than 50% up the PSA sen list right now, that doesn't mean that for bidding purposes. I've done IOE with J4J guys that started in the right seat. Halfway through training I get called to put them in the left and start IOE over because they are upgrading in 2 weeks. They then held a line within a month or 2.

I'll give him the same speech I give everyone. PSA needs mainline to survive, and mainline needs PSA. We're all in this together. I don't know what Ken is doing now, but I've found that the guys who aren't trying to outthink the system are doing the best.

None of us have much leverage right now. Best thing to do is get what we can, move on, and wait (and pray) for things to improve. Then we can come back for more and start rebuilding our careers. When a house is burning down, you save what you reasonably can in your limited amount of time and then go back and rebuild when the time is right.

If you have any questions about what is happening at PSA, I'll be glad to help you out where I can, as some of the PSA guys are not all thrilled to have J4J guys around. To top it off, some of the J4J guys are not making friends either. I'm ecstatic to be there, as I've seen what else is around.

USA320Pilot comments: The post above was from a PSA Check Airman, not USA320Pilot.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Furloughedagain]

With all due respect I believe that your PSA check airman is missing the point. This isn't about jockeying for position on the PSA seniority list.

This is about the number of "soft landings" -- the number of jobs that are available for furloughees.

Now, i'll be completely honest with you. I resigned my seniority at US Airways as a condition of employment elsewhere, so I dont have a dog in this fight.

I DO, however, have a soft spot in my heart for junior pilots who are not fairly represented by their leadership.

My point, very simply was this:

If all 80 of the E-Jets went to MidAtlantic, then 800 furloughed pilots would be offered employment.

If all 80 of the E-Jets go to PSA, then only 400 furloughed pilots would be offered employment.

This is about jobs pure and simple. The MEC is selling scope. The MEC is selling jobs.

Personally, I dont believe that they are getting their moneys worth. Scope is the most valuable piece of language in the entire working agreement. To trade it on a commuter clause is a vast and disgusting waste of negotiating capital.

I'm very, very glad to hear that there are PSA pilots who are quickly moving to the left seat and enjoying their new positions. I honestly don't think that has anything to do with this discussion though. This is about the difference between 400 soft-landings, and 800 soft-landings. This is about the MEC and, indeed the senior pilots, selling out their junior brothers out of fear.

Those payrates at MidAtlantic are plenty low enough that there should be no benefit to outsourcing those airplanes. At some point this management team is going to have to decide if they want to run an airline, or to simply be a ticket broker.

So with respect to my fellow furloughee, I still can not agree with this course of action. I was one of USA320Pilot's biggest supporters when I was on the property. It is only after resigning and watching this message board as an outsider that I am FINALLY beginning to see what everyone was warning me about.

Respectfully,
F.A.

 

[flyin2low]

I'm very, very glad to hear that there are PSA pilots who are quickly moving to the left seat and enjoying their new positions.

The upgrades are J4J FO's who are upgrading to J4J CO because nobody else wants to go there (PSA) from the APL.

 

[DorkDriver]

Most of the J4J guys at PSA are being welcomed. The problem seems to be that the the mainline negotiating committee is trying to re-write the J4J protocols half way through the implementation.

USA320Pilot, anymore news on PSA being "spun off"?

 

[RowUnderDCA]

All I can think is that things must be bad to go to all that trouble to get this great aircraft and be willing to confuse the costumer and give up ownership. I mean putting express on the plane? Then to list the flights as mainline? or is that just a rumour? No f/c? AND flying it all the way to MCI? I could see flying it for 90 minutes up and down the east, but to MCI? It doesn't seem like this is the optimum solution. So financing must be a big motivator!

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways, ALPA, and those parties interested in the success of the company want to keep every EMB-170 at MDA, but the company may have no choice but to let some go. Management has told ALPA that the profit margin is much greater if US Airways operates them vs. outsourcing them to an affiliate, however, GECAS holds all of the cards.

There is no way of knowing if this is true, but GECAS is calling the shots. United is lobbying GECAS to get the EMB's so they can solve their Dulles problem and GECAS likes the idea of an affiliate carrier operating the aircraft, whether its for United or US Airways.

Thus, if GECAS requires the aircraft to be flown at an affiliate carrier, it is much better to have them flown in the US Airways Express network for an affiliate carrier than at United Express.

GECAS wants to help US Airways, but it's going to be on their terms and they could care less about J4J or any of our furloughed employee problems.

In conclusion, it's likely there will be new RJ LOA this week, there will be scope relief, and it will receive membership ratification. Then we could see PSA and Allegheny/Piedmont "spun off" (after the LOA is ratified) and more news on the EMB-170s/MDA.

Speaking of the first EMB-170s, the first two aircraft are in FLL and are expected to be flown to PIT on Monday.

Here's a link to their photo gallery:

Click here for EMB-170 pictures

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[ClueByFour]

And now, U ALPA's premier spinmiester is trying to lay the groundwork to sleep well at night--"GECAS made us do it!"

I can only assume that young (sort of) junior pilots are tasty to the U ALPA MEC.

Next up--Group 2 aircraft to Mesa.

 

[delldude]

I regularly talk with the LaGuardia Station Manager and Dave Siegel and Jerry Glass routinely fly to New York on the Shuttle. As a LaGuardia based employee I fully understand the negotiation issues and restrictions.

watch out !! you'll be sharing a cell with martha!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I've been reading this thread with amused interest. Now I just have a couple of questions - does anyone have the answers?

1) Apparently the GECAS loan documents have some sort of "nervous" clause since those in the "know" keep talking about how a nervous GECAS could pull the E-170 financing. Has anyone ever seen loan documents (house, car, boat, whatever) that had a "nervous" clause? Has anyone actually seen the "nervous" clause in the GECAS loan documents?

2) I remember Wolf saying that nobody would loan us the money to buy 400 Airbuses for the "turbogrowth" unless we got our costs down. Of course, we never got the 400 Buses, but those we did get ended up leased instead of owned. Does anyone really think that the E-170's will be any different?

3) If by some miracle we do end up owning them, by the end of 2006 we'll be making payments on both the ATSB loan ($125 million per year), the ATSB guarantee fee (8% of the outstanding balance - $72 million a year initially), and the E-170 loan (at least $150 million a year). That's nearly $350 million a year in just interest/fees on top of our run-of-the-mill expenses. Will it then be time for concession 4 (or 5 or 6 ....)?

Jim

 

[mwereplanes]

Mwereplanes:

The last post that you cut and paste comments were not mine, thye were cut and pasted with permission from a MEC Rep.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

320:

I apologize for attributing those comments to you. My mistake. You do, however, seem to agree with the MEC member. So my question still stands. Directed at you and the remainder of the group who are once again about to approve more concessions for this management. Since you seem to be cogent of the feelings of the group, can you give me an answer?

mr

 

[U 737 PILOT]

It's out of our hands........sorry guys we gottta turn over the 737 and Airbus flying to Mesa. But at least we will still be flying the 767 and A-330. Last one out turn off the lights !

 

[Busdrvr]

GECAS likes the idea of an affiliate carrier operating the aircraft, whether its for Untied or US Airways.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

Nice classy move USA320, You can't even avoid a swipe at UAL on a topic unrelated to them. You give a face to the term "Useless Air" :angry:

 

[TheLarkAscending]

Nice classy move USA320, You can't even avoid a swipe at UAL on a topic unrelated to them. You give a face to the term "Useless Air" :angry:

You are not the first to point this out, nor will you be the last. What it actually does, is give a whole new twist to the meaning of Respectfully.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Mwereplanes:

At this point, management has not provided any of the unions their idea of what labor's participation in the "Going Forward Plan" will be, therefore, any comments are speculative.

In regard to the scope relief, GECAS has directly told ALPA their views and the financier holds all of the cards. Moreover, ALPA's Financial Advisors have told the MEC that GECAS does not bluff.

Therefore, ALPA has very little leverage, period.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[tadjr]

You are not the first to point this out, nor will you be the last. What it actually does, is give a whole new twist to the meaning of Respectfully.

And even if its a "typo", its been 22 hours since posted originally and about 12 hours since it was first pointed out. Plenty of time to correct the typo if you want to call it that. :down: