Help a furloughed pilot decide

[nycbusdriver]

I have the same decision to make..for a Mar 19 class. I hear the training pay is at $400/wk now. How is the schedules? The reserve? I'm about over struggling at Mesa...commuting to reserve in ORD from PHX. Not sure what I could hold at RAH, I'm 100 or so from the bottom on the APL...
Any advice?

The airline you will return to bears very little resemblance to the airline you left. Morale is in the dumper and it only appears to be accelerating down that slippery slope.

However, I think it's still better here than you probably have it at Mesa, all things considered.

 

[Furloughedagain]

Does anyone else find it troubling that we (furloughed pilots) have been asked to either accept or pass on a "block" of potential classdates?

There are a few problems with this. It has been widely made public that each class had a handful of 767 positions in it.

So let's say that you got your letter and replied that you would accept. The phone call comes and they tell you that you're number 20 out of 21 for a class. You tell them that you would rather wait for the NEXT class (when you would likely be more senior and more likely to get a higher-paid position).

See the trouble? Even though you're more senior then the fellow they call next (for the next class), he might be able to hold an aircraft that pays significantly more simply due to your relative position in the class. You're not allowed to exercise the privileges(?)of your seniority.

Problem #2. This limits the furloughed pilots contractual right to have the CHOICE regarding whether or not to come back. Let's say I got the "letter" a few weeks ago and decided to bypass. Then, by some turn of fate the flight-department where I currently work shuts down this month. Now I have to wait until this entire "block" of classes is filled and THEN will be given the opportunity to change my mind. Shouldn't recalls closely follow bids?

It's been over 6 years since I was furloughed -- more than twice the amount of time I worked for the airline -- so there's not much I remember. Maybe i'm wrong about how things are supposed to work. Somehow, though, it seems like we're being treated unfairly.

 

[careerfurloughee]

I am senior because I was hired at a young age on the right side of the bell shaped curve.
pilot

...and all those pilots senior to you that retired at 60.

 

[pilot]

With a FULL retirement.

 

[700UW]

Their retirement if they retired from US was terminated just like every rank and file employee and reduced by the PBGC if they did not take the lump sum payout.

 

[pilot]

I'm speaking of the lump sum.

My point is that with ALL the issues furloughees must face, age 65 etc..., coming back may not be the best option. There are many other ways to make a BETTER living than sitting on the bottom of a seniority list waiting and hoping things get better.

It ain't what it used to be. And it ain't gonna get better with the 320's of the world capitulating at every turn. And LCC has a ton of guys like 320.

pilot

 

[Swaayze]

Well I won't be going to Republic. Last call has come and I'm passing. I will most likely bypass recall until last call at USAir and then do some more real soul searching. I've decided that the negatives of commuting to reserve far outweigh the benefits for my family and me at this point.

It's a real shame the profession has degraded to the point that I'm just no longer willing to expend the extra effort to try to make it in this business (or perhaps its just me). I will continue at Eagle for now - it's a fair job with decent QOL and keeps me flying. I will continue to explore other opportunities and/or vocations as well. Hopefully the new contract will occur soon and some good news will make U attractive again.

Thanks again all for the input and opinions.

 

[Furloughedagain]

I'll be interested to hear what other vocations you consider. I personally have no other marketable skills. Every week I look at the positions available at my current employer (those that pay an equitable salary anyway)and realize that i'm unqualified for most anything.

Nonetheless, I think you're making the right decision re: Republic. You would be doing it for one reason and one reason only: A few hundred hours of PIC turbine.

But what happens when we get that magic 1000 PIC turbine? The rules for the game will continue to change. (I hear 1300 is the minimum at SWA now). Even if we had the time today those are just minimums and are not realistically competitive.

Chasing PIC time is just not a viable option for an individual with a family. Even for those who are single it's barely more honorable than buying a 737 type "just in case".

Returning to US Airways, however, bears a little bit more thought. If you could persuade your better-half to move to a domicile (tropical Philly or Charlotte), then an FO seat there is probably worth a few pennies more than an FO seat at Eagle.

It's funny isn't it? Some of the jobs that furloughees took simply to keep flying. You hear about guys going to the middle east to fly for Emirates, or slogging around India in a CRJ. You hear about others flying Jetstreams for Boston-Maine out of Portsmouth, NH -- a two leg commute by train and airplane through Boston! You hear about guys who have bounced from airline to airline looking for a home... Eastwind, to Vanguard, to ATA... each time finding themselves facing unemployment once again. (At least Great Plains had Krispy Kremes and Subway!)

Boy we're glutton for punishment are we not? In what other industry would people fight each other for a position at the very bottom rung of the ladder, where experience means virtually nothing. I'd venture to guess that you have far more total-time than the vast majority of the Captains you fly with.

Sadly, the furloughed USAir pilot who works at a place like Eagle or Comair is worth no more than the Comair Academy graduate who shows up with 300 hours.

At the end of the day I guess we have to look at it as a job. Clock in. Do your time. Clock out. Go home to the wife and kids. Fly plane. Get check. If you get paid enough to keep the furnace lit, and spend enough time at home then we should all be happy.

I know your decision was a difficult one. I've made it several times now myself. I suspect that every furloughee (except those few fortunate souls who were hired by FedEx or Southwest) are wrestling with those very same decisions. Despite what Pilot says in this forum, starting over in some other vocation just isn't that easy. (especially for those of us foolish enough to have taken an aviation-related major in college). We're pilots and pilots fly. Just take a look at the multi-page resumes that some of the furloughed pilots are sporting these days and remind yourself that you're not alone.

Regards,
Mike

 

[Swaayze]

At the end of the day I guess we have to look at it as a job. Clock in. Do your time. Clock out. Go home to the wife and kids. Fly plane. Get check. If you get paid enough to keep the furnace lit, and spend enough time at home then we should all be happy.

We're pilots and pilots fly. Just take a look at the multi-page resumes that some of the furloughed pilots are sporting these days and remind yourself that you're not alone.

Regards,
Mike

Thanks Mike,

It's somehow comforting to know that I'm not alone and that there are others out there who "get it".

You hit the nail on the head. I'm actually working hard on trying to be happy with what I have. I have realized that I have been very negative and bitter with my lot in life lately and the negative energy was multiplying. Without going into detail, basically I'm trying to change my energy, acknowledge and align with God and ultimately change my attitude (and altitude so the saying goes). It's hard to do consistently, but it has helped me greatly with finding some peace in my situation and decisions, and hopefully it will only get better from here.

I think, as some say, we are very marketable in other jobs, but because we are so conditioned to follow rules and processes we tend to see only the restrictions that we don't meet ("2 years experience", etc). I really have the same feeling as you here and I have no big desire to leave flying. I do intend to keep my eyes a little more open to other possibilities.

BTW, my captain this month says he read somewhere that your outfit will be HQ'd in the DFW area within a few years (speculative article, not a real rumor) so be sure and let me know when I need to apply! 😉

Take care,
Cam

 

[AirDad767]

Furloughedagain,
I understand your feelings of being treated unfairly. Being on the pavement for extended periods of time is a feeling known all too well to this pilot group. As a card carrying member of the "283", I can tell you how I felt about Y.I.S. and the continued way we at the bottom third are treated in as far as representation. The part about a fair shake at bidding or seniority, unfortunately that's how it works at USAir(ways). The first time through, we bid on what crew planning had to offer for that class. It was the same way in 1998 during that recall, except we got drafted to Metrojet while new hires went everywhere else in the system. Fair is relative.

I'm going back for a third time because I choose to. With the changes happening in many facets of the op and the future never being quite set, I think the cup is more than half full. I know that people at the airline, people not quite back at the airline, and passengers of this airline are always pissing into the wind about how crappy it is. Well come on out to Lagos, Nigeria, Georgetown, Guyana, or Far Eastern Europe. Its not "settling for", its I choose what I know and enjoy to do.

I wish you well and good luck in your choice. Change, oh yeah. Maybe instead of bitching about things, we should all get involved in the process. ALPA and the company both need nudges in the right direction. I think the former is headin' in the right direction.....the company needs a good shove. Lets all move together towards a common career change for the positive. I know that sounds like sunshine, rainbows, and psychadelics..but hey, it is what you make of it. Just like life.


Makin' Lemonade of the Lemons, one more time!

DW charter member of the frequently furloughed club since
1990.

 

[Furloughedagain]

Cam,

I think that this outfit moving to DFW is one of the signs of the apocalypse. Too much infrastructure here to up and move (including a cave in Missouri that houses a backup computer system twice the size of the Pentagons).

But you never know I suppose. I'll definitely keep you in the loop. Looks like we'll be hiring again in mid-April if you know anybody who is interested.

 

[autofixer]

"BARONS" (The week of Feb. 22nd) magazine reported that COSTCO is one of the country's best companys for which to work. A cashier there earns $40,000 after 3 or 4 years. No worrys, no physicals, no 16 hour days without overtime, no flea-bag hotels, no food making you sick on the road, no minimum overnights, no check-rides, no FAA and most important, no LCC with Otis behind the wheel.

 

[Furloughedagain]

If the rumors on another website are true and on March 16th they will release a bid including another 220 recalls, we may be forced to make that "final decision" sooner than we all hoped.

Another 220 will probably get them pretty close to the bottom of the list with all of the bypasses.

 

[Swaayze]

If the rumors on another website are true and on March 16th they will release a bid including another 220 recalls, we may be forced to make that "final decision" sooner than we all hoped.

Another 220 will probably get them pretty close to the bottom of the list with all of the bypasses.

Wow, that would be impressive. Personally I'm pretty sure I'll bypass 'til last call. I really want to know what the contract will look like before seriously considering coming back. I must admit many of my decisions have been made under the guise of keeping the most available (and attractive) options remaining for the future. Now I'm down to only either recall or no, sooner or later. Good and bad I guess.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Another 220 will probably get them pretty close to the bottom of the list with all of the bypasses.

... went through 240 to fill just the April classes.