Seniority integration

[blue collar]

Premium is the same way. Its the date you were awarded the premium classification.
 
So you can have a basic date, and a lead date, inspection date etc....

I get that- but I don't believe AA has premium. It's based on your occupational seniority (the way it should be).

 

[700UW]

I don't see how that will work, if I'm the youngest guy in my class 1/1/2000 and my last 4 are 0001, and a 70 year old last 4 digits are 5555 US guy with 1/1/2000 seniority will be behind me but an older AA guy with last 4 digits 9999 will be above the both of us. How is that going to work.

What dont you understand?
 
Myself and others have explained it over and over.
 
Age will have nothing to do with the integration.  AA's own relative seniority will not change.
 
When the SS# will be used is quite clear.
 
US and AA mechanic both hired on 1/1/00, US SS# 1234, AA's SS# 5678, so the US employee will be above the AA employee, and vice versa, if the AA employee and the US employee both have the same hire date and the AA SS# is 0001 and US SS# is 0002, the AA employee will be placed above the US employee.
 
Nothing is going to change in regard to AA to AA seniority and the same goes for US to US seniority.

 

[700UW]

I get that- but I don't believe AA has premium. It's based on your occupational seniority (the way it should be).

Why should that be?
 
So say a 20 year mechanic never got lead time and a 10 year guy did, and he moved to get his lead time, so how is it fair that a 20 year guy who NEVER worked one day as a lead would leapfrog a guy who has been a lead for 10 year already?

 

[MetalMover]

Oh yes it was unfair, AA demanded that the IAM and ALPA all wave their LPPs or they wouldnt have bought TW and let it go chapter 7.  Dont rewrite history.
Funny thing is some at AA say the IAM and TWU had an agreement just like APFA did and then pulled it.  The IAM and TWU went to arbitration and that is how Kasher ruled, and the APFA just stapled.
 
How would you like it since US arranged and pushed the merger that they pull what TWU did to the former TW employees?
 
Spin it how you want a real unionist doest gain an advantage for themselves and penalize another union and its members.
 
And the language was in the TWU CBA, and AA forced the IAM and ALPA to remove their protections.
 
I have been through the PI/PS/ mergers, no one was penalized because of it, US actually gave the ramp and csas their time back that was lost.
 
And how hard is it to understand that Allegheny-Mohawk was NOT in effect for the AA/TW merger.

Given the fact that AA purchased near death TWA, they had a choice...The unions did not have to agree. They could have stood their ground and head to the unemployment lines. You forget to mention that both the AA pilot and FA unions prevailed in court..
Allegheny-Mohawk WASN'T in effect?
Then why the hell was Kasher appointed to the case?

 

[700UW]

Because the IAM and TWU had an agreement, the TWU pulled it, so it went to arbitration.
 
Why didnt the APFA and IAM go to arbitration?
 
What is so hard to understand that AA forced the IAM and ALPA to waive their LPPs?
 
So no Allegheny-Mohawk was not in effective.

 

[MetalMover]

Why should that be?
 
So say a 20 year mechanic never got lead time and a 10 year guy did, and he moved to get his lead time, so how is it fair that a 20 year guy who NEVER worked one day as a lead would leapfrog a guy who has been a lead for 10 year already?

Don't worry about these issues because the alliance most likely be voted down..... Better off being non union than belong to a loser IAM/TWU combo.

 

[700UW]

Better off being non-union?
 
You really are stupid, kiss your jobs goodbye if that happens.
 
You will be an employee at will and will have no protections.
 
You will be on the unemployment line.
 
Overhaul will be gone, shops will be gone and you will have minimal line maintenance.

 

[MetalMover]

Better off being non-union?
 
You really are stupid, kiss your jobs goodbye if that happens.
 
You will be an employee at will and will have no protections.
 
You will be on the unemployment line.
 
Overhaul will be gone, shops will be gone and you will have minimal line maintenance.

Stupid? Better than being brain washed and naive like you!
 
Delta mechanics seems to be doing ok.
 
What's US outsourcing percentage at now?
 
TWU? ha! big joke...read the language.

 

[700UW]

And the only reason that is to keep unions out.
 
You do realize that DL farms out all their heavy and most of their mods?
 
You do realize they have contract mtc working along side their own mechanics at the TOC in ATL?
 
Go ask the ramp and CSAs at US what happened to them in 1992 with no union.
 
You do realize DL has three different pay scales for an A&P?
 
You do realize DL gave some of their mechanics a 2% raise while others got a 3% raise?
 
You do realize DL cut their profit sharing by 33% from 15% to 10%?

 

[MetalMover]

And the only reason that is to keep unions out.
 
You do realize that DL farms out all their heavy and most of their mods?
 
You do realize they have contract mtc working along side their own mechanics at the TOC in ATL?
 
Go ask the ramp and CSAs at US what happened to them in 1992 with no union.
 
You do realize DL has three different pay scales for an A&P?
 
You do realize DL gave some of their mechanics a 2% raise while others got a 3% raise?
 
You do realize DL cut their profit sharing by 33% from 15% to 10%?

Hows PIT doing?

 

[blue collar]

Why should that be?
 
So say a 20 year mechanic never got lead time and a 10 year guy did, and he moved to get his lead time, so how is it fair that a 20 year guy who NEVER worked one day as a lead would leapfrog a guy who has been a lead for 10 year already?

First of all- it was the 10 year guy's choice to move for lead. Second- why should his 10 years trump the other guy's 20 years? Why should someone be busting their ass as a mechanic for 35 years, and when they hurt their back move into a lead position- only to get shafted on his days off by a 5 year guy who's only been a lead for 3 years? I think that occupational (DOC) should be used for everything pertaining to the classification. Lead, inspector, lead inspector, tech crew chief, etc. I've always been opposed to premium seniority. There's a lot of different circumstances that can happen- and to me the argument of 'he's been doing the job longer' holds no water between people in the same classification. If they want to draw lines, then why don't they differentiate between aircraft and gse seniority?

 

[700UW]

Still there with overhaul of the A320 narrowbody family, and protected under the CBA, even in the new one.
 
How is AFW doing?
 
How is TUL doing?
 
At AA you farmout line mtc at US they cant.
 
AA can outsource 35% of your total maintenance budget and can exceed that percentage.
 
At US they can only farmout 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance, line cant be farmed out.
 
And it took two bankruptcy filings for US to be able to farmout work.

 

[700UW]

First of all- it was the 10 year guy's choice to move for lead. Second- why should his 10 years trump the other guy's 20 years? Why should someone be busting their ass as a mechanic for 35 years, and when they hurt their back move into a lead position- only to get shafted on his days off by a 5 year guy who's only been a lead for 3 years? I think that occupational (DOC) should be used for everything pertaining to the classification. Lead, inspector, lead inspector, tech crew chief, etc. I've always been opposed to premium seniority. There's a lot of different circumstances that can happen- and to me the argument of 'he's been doing the job longer' holds no water between people in the same classification. If they want to draw lines, then why don't they differentiate between aircraft and gse seniority?

Because the man never worked one day as a lead, no one deserves super seniority.
 
If you work 20 years as a mechanic and a guy worked 10 years as a lead, the 20 year guy shouldnt leapfrog someone who has been doing the job.
 
So a mechanic who has been working 20 years and never worked one day as inspector and a guy who has been doing for 10 years as an inspector, then the 20 year guy bids to inspection so you think he should be senior to a guy who has been an inspector for 10 years?
 
So how about a guy who has been on the ramp for 20 years then gets his A&P the upgrades to a mechanic, should he leapfrog every mechanics who has 19 years and under?

 

[blue collar]

Because the man never worked one day as a lead, no one deserves super seniority.
 
If you work 20 years as a mechanic and a guy worked 10 years as a lead, the 20 year guy shouldnt leapfrog someone who has been doing the job.
 
So a mechanic who has been working 20 years and never worked one day as inspector and a guy who has been doing for 10 years as an inspector, then the 20 year guy bids to inspection so you think he should be senior to a guy who has been an inspector for 10 years?
 
So how about a guy who has been on the ramp for 20 years then gets his A&P the upgrades to a mechanic, should he leapfrog every mechanics who has 19 years and under?

To the first situation- yes. A mechanic with 20 years who bids inspection should use his 20 years to bid. Just because it hasn't been in inspection doesn't mean he hasn't been doing the same classification of job. To use your reasoning- should they differentiate between line MX and overhaul? They're two types of job in the same classification.
To your second situation- no. I don't know of an airline that has MX and fleet in the same classification. The ramper would start as a day 1 mechanic.

 

[Duke787]

What dont you understand?
 
Myself and others have explained it over and over.
 
Age will have nothing to do with the integration.  AA's own relative seniority will not change.
 
When the SS# will be used is quite clear.
 
US and AA mechanic both hired on 1/1/00, US SS# 1234, AA's SS# 5678, so the US employee will be above the AA employee, and vice versa, if the AA employee and the US employee both have the same hire date and the AA SS# is 0001 and US SS# is 0002, the AA employee will be placed above the US employee.
 
Nothing is going to change in regard to AA to AA seniority and the same goes for US to US seniority.

I'm the youngest AA guy of 10 mechs with 0001 ssn, hired 1/1/2000 , there are 10 mechs from US there 1/1/2000 senior guy has ssn 0002, there are now 9 LAA guys above me and 10 LUS guys below me?