Seniority integration

[700UW]

PMTW=Pre-merger TWA
 
PMWN=Pre-merger Southwest.

 

[blue collar]

How is it a mess?
 
You were around for the PI and PS mergers correct?
 
The IAM has always done it by dovetail DOH into DOC, and the tiebreakers have usually been the last four of the SS#.
 
Would you prefer how the TWU treated the former TW guys?
 
Where a five year guy at AA stayed while a 30 year guy at TW didnt?
 
Or how the APFA stapled the PMTW FAs to the bottom of the list?
 
Or how AMFA at WN gave all the PMWN Mechanics a four year bump in seniority over the PMAT Mechanics?
 
No one is ever going to be happy, but it is the most fair way to integrate.

A mess because AA has done it by age, and IAM has done it by SS#. The AA guys shouldn't lose seniority within their group due to the new way/and vice versa. Also- how can you be sure that you're going to be slotted in the right way? You won't know others' ss #s. Just because it's the way the IAM has always done it doesn't make it the right way.

 

[blue collar]

And the WN/AT Integration was voted on by both sides. Maybe this alliance should put out a vote for the members to decide how they want seniority to work?

 

[blue collar]

And the WN/AT Integration was voted on by both sides. Maybe this alliance should put out a vote for the members to decide how they want seniority to work?

 

[dfw gen]

you cant argue with an expert put him on ignore or enjoy his foot stomping.....

 

[700UW]

A mess because AA has done it by age, and IAM has done it by SS#. The AA guys shouldn't lose seniority within their group due to the new way/and vice versa. Also- how can you be sure that you're going to be slotted in the right way? You won't know others' ss #s. Just because it's the way the IAM has always done it doesn't make it the right way.

There is a process to protest if someone feels they werent slotted correctly.
 
No one is going to lose seniority, its a merger, you dont get to do what happened to the TWA employees.
 
Both the IAM and TWU agreed to it as did PMUS and PMAA.
 
No one at AA will leap above someone already at AA, their seniority as already been determined.
 
So for example if two mechanics were hired on 1/1/00 and one is 50 and one is 40, and the 40 year old has a lower SS# than the 50 year old, he wont be placed above the 50 year old.  Your seniority at AA has already been in effect.

 

[blue collar]

There is a process to protest if someone feels they werent slotted correctly.
 
No one is going to lose seniority, its a merger, you dont get to do what happened to the TWA employees.
 
Both the IAM and TWU agreed to it as did PMUS and PMAA.
 
No one at AA will leap above someone already at AA, their seniority as already been determined.
 
So for example if two mechanics were hired on 1/1/00 and one is 50 and one is 40, and the 40 year old has a lower SS# than the 50 year old, he wont be placed above the 50 year old.  Your seniority at AA has already been in effect.

Why do you keep using the TWA example? I never mentioned it- I didn't hear anyone else mention that's how they wanted it. No need to keep rehashing it, or accuse bob of wanting a staple job.
You did clear up the question of how the integration would be handled. The SS # only applies to integration of the two lists- not the seniority on their relative list. So to answer all of the AA questions- your SS number will only be used to determine if you are ahead of a US person, not to move you ahead of a current AAer.

 

[700UW]

I use it because it show how unfair it was, the US Congress passed a law because of the AA/TW merger and how seniority was handled.
 
And yes to your second part of the you wrote.
 
And Bob was in favor, go back and look at his posts, they all hide behind the language.
 
And he already said US doesnt bring anything to the merger, and implies the PMUS employees dont deserve their seniority.
 
You can all say what you want, but DOH into the DOC is the only fair way.

 

[blue collar]

I use it because it show how unfair it was, the US Congress passed a law because of the AA/TW merger and how seniority was handled.
 
And yes to your second part of the you wrote.
 
And Bob was in favor, go back and look at his posts, they all hide behind the language.
 
And he already said US doesnt bring anything to the merger, and implies the PMUS employees dont deserve their seniority.
 
You can all say what you want, but DOH into the DOC is the only fair way.

Bob never said that US doesn't deserve their seniority. I think the fairest way is to put it out to vote on both sides rather than having the union tell you how they're going to do it. And I agree, that occupational seniority is a fair baseline for two fairly equal carriers.

 

[blue collar]

How about premium seniority? Will that stay around? I guess that's to be decided in the JCBA.

 

[blue collar]

Deleted - dupe

 

[MetalMover]

I use it because it show how unfair it was, the US Congress passed a law because of the AA/TW merger and how seniority was handled.
 
And yes to your second part of the you wrote.
 
And Bob was in favor, go back and look at his posts, they all hide behind the language.
 
And he already said US doesnt bring anything to the merger, and implies the PMUS employees dont deserve their seniority.
 
You can all say what you want, but DOH into the DOC is the only fair way.

I t wasn't UNFAIR just because you say it wasn't....Both the TWU and IAM had provisions in their CBA's that should a merger or takeover occur, seniority would be determined by ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK...And should no agreement be reached, they would submit to binding arbitration..
Once again, for the reading and hearing impaired, Kasher ruled what he deemed FAIR and EQUITABLE..NOT THE TWU AND NOT THE IAM....
 
McKaskill -Bond both senators from Missouri, crafted legislation for seniority integration. there was no need for this because Allegheny Mohawk was already in place.

 

[700UW]

Premium is the same way. Its the date you were awarded the premium classification.
 
So you can have a basic date, and a lead date, inspection date etc....

 

[Duke787]

Why do you keep using the TWA example? I never mentioned it- I didn't hear anyone else mention that's how they wanted it. No need to keep rehashing it, or accuse bob of wanting a staple job.
You did clear up the question of how the integration would be handled. The SS # only applies to integration of the two lists- not the seniority on their relative list. So to answer all of the AA questions- your SS number will only be used to determine if you are ahead of a US person, not to move you ahead of a current AAer.

I don't see how that will work, if I'm the youngest guy in my class 1/1/2000 and my last 4 are 0001, and a 70 year old last 4 digits are 5555 US guy with 1/1/2000 seniority will be behind me but an older AA guy with last 4 digits 9999 will be above the both of us. How is that going to work.

 

[700UW]

I t wasn't UNFAIR just because you say it wasn't....Both the TWU and IAM had provisions in their CBA's that should a merger or takeover occur, seniority would be determined by ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK...And should no agreement be reached, they would submit to binding arbitration..
Once again, for the reading and hearing impaired, Kasher ruled what he deemed FAIR and EQUITABLE..NOT THE TWU AND NOT THE IAM....
 
McKaskill -Bond both senators from Missouri, crafted legislation for seniority integration. there was no need for this because Allegheny Mohawk was already in place.

Oh yes it was unfair, AA demanded that the IAM and ALPA all wave their LPPs or they wouldnt have bought TW and let it go chapter 7.  Dont rewrite history.
 
Funny thing is some at AA say the IAM and TWU had an agreement just like APFA did and then pulled it.  The IAM and TWU went to arbitration and that is how Kasher ruled, and the APFA just stapled.
 
How would you like it since US arranged and pushed the merger that they pull what TWU did to the former TW employees?
 
Spin it how you want a real unionist doest gain an advantage for themselves and penalize another union and its members.
 
And the language was in the TWU CBA, and AA forced the IAM and ALPA to remove their protections.
 
I have been through the PI/PS/ mergers, no one was penalized because of it, US actually gave the ramp and csas their time back that was lost.
 
And how hard is it to understand that Allegheny-Mohawk was NOT in effect for the AA/TW merger.