Seniority Agreement Reached with IAM/TWU/AA/US

[AMFAinMIAMI]

OK, so I have to ask how might this affect TWA workers senority.. OCC, 4/10/01 or 25%??

mike757

It's been 12yrs since 4/10/01 the TWA guys will keep what they have now, what you had at another airline whether it be TWA, EAL, or any other company does not matter. If we had a union that was set up like the IBEW it may be different but that is not what we have.

The merger does not matter either, either the IBT or AMFA will file cards, if the cards are determined to be good, and sufficient number we vote. If not we will be stuck forever with the TWU.

Don't blame AMFA​

Don't blame the IBT​

Blame yourself​

AMFA at AA in 2013​

 

[AP Tech]

Take a page from the Ex Trump Shuttle guys and threaten to sue the IAM.....good chance they would cave......

 

[mike757]

So let me get this straight, many on this board are advocating for different union that will represent ALL us more fairly and effectively. Hopefully creating a more dignified and unified work group, that in time, will return some, if not all of the benefit losses incurred over the last years.

Looks to me like we'll be saddled with the same old divisions and prejudice that made it possible for AA to bend us over like they did.

Weather I'm on the payroll or not I will always advocate for full occupational seniority integration, regardless of who bought who.. In the long run, that benefits everyone, and IMHO it's simply the right thing to do.

 

[700UW]

Take a page from the Ex Trump Shuttle guys and threaten to sue the IAM.....good chance they would cave......

The Trump guys did sue, and the case was bs, no way they should have gotten there Eastern time, they resigned from EA and went to work for Trump.

The IAM gave them their Trump time, when AMFA turned their back on the Trump mechanics, and they sued and won in a jury trial.

And the trump mechanics who were represented by AMFA scabbed on US Airways planes when we went on strike in October of 92.

http://www.cadc.usco...le/96-7233a.txt

So since I was IAM with United and I quit to go to Piedmont, should I have gotten my UA time?

And in regards to TW/AA you dont get a do over, it sucked what happened but it is what it is.

 

[dfw gen]

Will the IAM do the same for the USAIR workers as they did to TWA?

Josh

go away fool

 

[paul1]

When does the membership vote on this?

B) ^_^ :huh: you are kidding right

 

[TWU informer]

I love how these "Unions" involve their membership and allow voting on these agreements....NOT

 

[bob@las-AA]

When does the membership vote on this?

We will not be voting, it is set in stone.

 

[OldBubba]

TWA guys should get to 100 percent seniority!! So you're going to tell the men in St Louis that have 100 percent seniority, that they will lose that and drop back to 4/10/01. I pick my vacation by my hire date / which is also my occupational seniority how can you take that away from me? when I've had it for 12 years. oh and by the way we gave AMFA their seniority, give us ours.

 

[Topcat187]

TWA guys should get to 100 percent seniority!! So you're going to tell the men in St Louis that have 100 percent seniority, that they will lose that and drop back to 4/10/01. I pick my vacation by my hire date / which is also my occupational seniority how can you take that away from me? when I've had it for 12 years. oh and by the way we gave AMFA their seniority, give us ours.

The TWA seniority has already been arbitrated and resulted in what it is today. Fair or not, it is over.....

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

TWA guys should get to 100 percent seniority!! So you're going to tell the men in St Louis that have 100 percent seniority, that they will lose that and drop back to 4/10/01. I pick my vacation by my hire date / which is also my occupational seniority how can you take that away from me? when I've had it for 12 years. oh and by the way we gave AMFA their seniority, give us ours.

OldBubba

I agree the TWA guys should of gotten their seniority at the time of the AA acquisition.

But that did not happen and will not happen this time around. This is an assumption on my part but I think just as fences were put up with the AA and TWA guys when they merger between USAir and AA similar events will be negotiated. Even as far as transfers between AA stations and USAir stations at least for a limited time frame while the unions work out which will be the representing union and after they figure away to integrate both work forces. Looking at the seniority of the USAir guys and talking with guys I know there, many are older and may even be gone as I might be before it all gets resolved. Most at USAir started in Maintenance when they hired in at USAir. Where here at AA alot hired into the ramp and upgraded after time even though they had A&P's when hired in. Your vacation time will always stay as it is by company time even the TWA guys got that. They bid vacation before AA guys. So much is going to be negotiated that it will be yrs before its all worked out.

The big thing I see the USAir guys are going to loose is the IAM pension, it will stop being funded. AA will not put into that. So depending on what the IAM does with it, that will and should be discussed before we merge. I would assume what ever union is at AA will be the union that when its all said and one will represent both.

The agreement which the IAM/TWU have put out is what was discussed months ago and will be done by the McCaskill/Bond agreement which is fair for all. BY classification/occupational time same just different name at each union in place.

Many TWA guys have many different seniority dates as well as some AA guys since some lost time due to layoffs and deals made by the TWU with company when they did not follow the rules and put up fences at AA stations that had jr guys.

Just a question we gave AMFA their time where? Explain?

 

[mike757]

OldBubba

I agree the TWA guys should of gotten their seniority at the time of the AA acquisition.

But that did not happen and will not happen this time around. This is an assumption on my part but I think just as fences were put up with the AA and TWA guys when they merger between USAir and AA similar events will be negotiated. Even as far as transfers between AA stations and USAir stations at least for a limited time frame while the unions work out which will be the representing union and after they figure away to integrate both work forces. Looking at the seniority of the USAir guys and talking with guys I know there, many are older and may even be gone as I might be before it all gets resolved. Most at USAir started in Maintenance when they hired in at USAir. Where here at AA alot hired into the ramp and upgraded after time even though they had A&P's when hired in. Your vacation time will always stay as it is by company time even the TWA guys got that. They bid vacation before AA guys. So much is going to be negotiated that it will be yrs before its all worked out.

The big thing I see the USAir guys are going to loose is the IAM pension, it will stop being funded. AA will not put into that. So depending on what the IAM does with it, that will and should be discussed before we merge. I would assume what ever union is at AA will be the union that when its all said and one will represent both.

The agreement which the IAM/TWU have put out is what was discussed months ago and will be done by the McCaskill/Bond agreement which is fair for all. BY classification/occupational time same just different name at each union in place.

Many TWA guys have many different seniority dates as well as some AA guys since some lost time due to layoffs and deals made by the TWU with company when they did not follow the rules and put up fences at AA stations that had jr guys.

Just a question we gave AMFA their time where? Explain?

TWA/Ozark happened before my time but I'll fill you in as best I can.

TWA merged with/ bought Ozark airlines in 1986, TWA was the larger
Controlling partner, with much greater market share in STL where they both competed. TWA also came up with 250M to make the deal fly.

TWA was IAM, and Ozark was AMFA. In the end, Mechanics SENIORITY WAS DOVETAILED, like it should be!! AMFA guys kept full seniority, time in service, and their pensions, TWA kept there's.

I don't think there were any layoffs as a result of the combination, no fences, no arbitrators was involved that I was aware of.

I'll say it again, you AA guys say you want a new union that will listen to the membership, and act in your best interest when negotiating a new contract, but when it comes to divisive issues like TWA occupational seniority, you pretend it's out of your control, you play deaf, dumb, and blind.

I've got news for you, It's not a dead issue, not yet anyway, but the clock is ticking guys. I encourage employees interested in fair seniority integration to contact there congressional leaders, union and company officials, find someone can will listen to reason, and help bring this fragmented work group together.

Awarding TWAers their full OCC seniority, would be a step in the right direction, and a source of pride and goodwill, which is obviously lacking here at AA.

It would also be a good way to pander for signed AMFA cards and/or votes, as many as 400 of them...

 

[700UW]

It is a dead issue, its been arbitrated and decided, its over, it sucks what happened, but give it a rest all ready. You are not going to change it with this merger.

When Piedmont bought Empire, the pilots got screwed at Empire, when US and PI merged, nothing changed.

Its time to move on all ready.

 

[Bob Owens]

TWA/Ozark happened before my time but I'll fill you in as best I can.

TWA merged with/ bought Ozark airlines in 1986, TWA was the larger
Controlling partner, with much greater market share in STL where they both competed. TWA also came up with 250M to make the deal fly.

TWA was IAM, and Ozark was AMFA. In the end, Mechanics SENIORITY WAS DOVETAILED, like it should be!! AMFA guys kept full seniority, time in service, and their pensions, TWA kept there's.

I don't think there were any layoffs as a result of the combination, no fences, no arbitrators was involved that I was aware of.

I'll say it again, you AA guys say you want a new union that will listen to the membership, and act in your best interest when negotiating a new contract, but when it comes to divisive issues like TWA occupational seniority, you pretend it's out of your control, you play deaf, dumb, and blind.

I've got news for you, It's not a dead issue, not yet anyway, but the clock is ticking guys. I encourage employees interested in fair seniority integration to contact there congressional leaders, union and company officials, find someone can will listen to reason, and help bring this fragmented work group together.

Awarding TWAers their full OCC seniority, would be a step in the right direction, and a source of pride and goodwill, which is obviously lacking here at AA.

It would also be a good way to pander for signed AMFA cards and/or votes, as many as 400 of them...

It is a dead issue. You left out the fact that Ozark mechanics had language in their contract that left TWA and the IAM no choice in the matter, they had to dovetail, sure TWA had protective language as well but the IAM waived their contractual rights to make the merger happen, why? because the alternative for both the IAM and the members would have been worse-Liquidation. Then the IAM would have been out millions that TWA owed the pension and lease payments on engines owned by the IAM and all the TWA guys would have been without a job or recall rights back to a job. So its over. Did you get screwed? Sure you did, but not nearly as bad as it could have been. Move on.

BTW you left out the fact that when the two merged the Ozark guys did get screwed because the contract they had with Ozark had better pay than the TWA deal, when TWA mechanics came to AA they didn't take a pay cut, they got an increase.

 

[Salty Dog]

What happens to people like me with 2 years in facilities and 20 years in fleet service? If they use occupational seniority do we keep our company time for layoffs or vacation bids?