Retirees filed to be reheard

[Steve Walegir]

Actually it’s incredibly easy to figure out once you’ve read this thesis.

http://schema.lib.cam.ac.uk/PR-PHD-05437_CUDL2017-reduced.pdf

Great, now my phone sounds like a Texas Instruments Speak and Spell

 

[AANOTOK]

The majority in the system were but NYC, ORD, LAX and especially here in MIA had plenty who weren’t.

Bob my suggestion. Wait till the “Labor Group” puts out the figures and calculations for this round and then you can back calculate. Otherwise seriously your just going to get people anxious (And pissed off) when they get less than they thought they would.

I think you are gonna have more pissed off people than you do have happy...Surprise, eh!

 

[WeAAsles]

I think you are gonna have more pissed off people than you do have happy...Surprise, eh!

I can’t help those people who still firmly believe they’re going to get over $10,000.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Of the original 14% that was held back that is the main part of this distribution didn't AA already hold back shares from us to cover our taxes? If yes then it would be easy to distribute through DD our portion of the 14% then separately distribute the gains and figure taxes from there. Should be at least enough money for a nice thanksgiving dinner, should be higher judging by my NYC math I learned but I've also learned from aa to temper my expectations when it comes to matters like this

i believe they held back shares to pay taxes up to the IPO price. this $$ would need a forensic accountant to figure out at price(s) the shares were sold, how much interest was accumulated...etc. in other words, we'll pay taxes on this DD check and the amount added to your 2017 income.

i'm hearing the twu's victorious attorneys have already collected their fee..so, don't deduct anything from the apprx. $85 million that's in the kitty. so, to get some type of orientation, i'd like to know how many twu employees are entitled to this $85 million.

i heard the preposterous 23,000 number. when i hear that number, that's all i need to hear as to why things work in the usa. knowledge is power and if the powers that be, don't wish to share info, then don't insult twu members who have half a brain. i want to say by memory that apprx. 13,000 twu members received equity in the form of shares.

 

[Steve Walegir]

i believe they held back shares to pay taxes up to the IPO price. this $$ would need a forensic accountant to figure out at price(s) the shares were sold, how much interest was accumulated...etc. in other words, we'll pay taxes on this DD check and the amount added to your 2017 income.

i'm hearing the twu's victorious attorneys have already collected their fee..so, don't deduct anything from the apprx. $85 million that's in the kitty. so, to get some type of orientation, i'd like to know how many twu employees are entitled to this $85 million.

i heard the preposterous 23,000 number. when i hear that number, that's all i need to hear as to why things work in the usa. knowledge is power and if the powers that be, don't wish to share info, then don't insult twu members who have half a brain. i want to say by memory that apprx. 13,000 twu members received equity in the form of shares.

I had asked the same question and Bob@las posted

Fleet Service:.....9068
M&R:..................9656
Stores:................1140
Dispatchers:.........147
Instructors:...........154
Maint Cont Tech:...79
SimTechs:..............80

I still think those numbers are high

 

[WeAAsles]

i believe they held back shares to pay taxes up to the IPO price. this $$ would need a forensic accountant to figure out at price(s) the shares were sold, how much interest was accumulated...etc. in other words, we'll pay taxes on this DD check and the amount added to your 2017 income.

i'm hearing the twu's victorious attorneys have already collected their fee..so, don't deduct anything from the apprx. $85 million that's in the kitty. so, to get some type of orientation, i'd like to know how many twu employees are entitled to this $85 million.

i heard the preposterous 23,000 number. when i hear that number, that's all i need to hear as to why things work in the usa. knowledge is power and if the powers that be, don't wish to share info, then don't insult twu members who have half a brain. i want to say by memory that apprx. 13,000 twu members received equity in the form of shares.

The wording told to me on the high number was that they were “entitled” to collect something out of the equity distribution. There may have been a ton of people who weren’t entitled to receive much at all.

Don’t forget even those EBO people got and will still get something because two pieces of that original distribution had to do with a Maintenance 757 grievance and a Medical settlement grievance. The 23,000 number probably comes from people who retired even years before the BK but worked at AA when those issues took place?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i agree, no idea why and who throws those numbers out. i don't blame the poster...i was told the top twu man in my station also said "23,000", unless he misunderstood the question.

if we go by the distribution formula:

54.6% of the $85 million should go to M & R
37.6% of the $85 million should go to Fleet Service

the rest to go to the other 5 classes/crafts represented by the twu.

P/Ters are entitled to 70% of the rate given to F/ters.

the eligibility period was:

To be minimally eligible to share in a portion of the distribution, an employee must have been in an employment relationship with American Airlines in a TWU represented craft/class on the date American filed for bankruptcy (November 29, 2011), and in an employment relationship with American Airlines in a TWU represented craft/class on the closing date for participation in the distribution (July 26, 2013). The period between November 29, 2011 and July 26, 2013 is the “eligibility period”. However, persons in certain categories who do not meet these criteria for reasons beyond their control are eligible to participate. November 29, 2011 was picked as the start date for the eligibility period because the bankruptcy filing was effectively the end of the old American Airlines. It was also what gave American the ability and leverage to obtain changes in the pension plan and the scope rules that will lead to substantial cost savings for the new American Airlines; and American’s labor costs as of that date were the predicate for American’s base case for its demands for concessions. Anyone who hired on or after November 29, 2011 did so knowing that the post-bankruptcy company would be a different company operating under different collective bargaining agreements. July 26, 2013 was picked as the end date because the TWU will have to provide American with a list of persons eligible to receive shares, and the amounts of shares for each of them, in time for the initial distribution which is expected to be the end of August.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

The wording told to me on the high number was that they were “entitled” to collect something out of the equity distribution. There may have been a ton of people who weren’t entitled to receive much at all.

Don’t forget even those EBO people got and will still get something because two pieces of that original distribution had to do with a Maintenance 757 grievance and a Medical settlement grievance. The 23,000 number probably comes from people who retired even years before the BK but worked at AA when those issues took place?

that's whole thing...why are we framing every sentence with a question mark?? how can they (twu) not know how many members are entitled to this $85 million?

a brief Q & A memo would have done wonders. i know i would ask that question. to those putting out such info, maybe they would have decided NOT to ask themselves that question and NOT print the answer?

 

[bob@las-AA]

I'll post this with the appropriate step raises, but still based on 80 million. Just because the weez gave me a hard time....just kidding.
years
of
service
1 …….. $1,789.82
2 …….. $1,889.86
3 …….. $2,001.20
4 …….. $2,111.87
5 …….. $2,224.54
6 …….. $2,335.87
7 …….. $2,446.55
8 …….. $2,559.21
9 …….. $2,670.55
10 …….. $2,959.98
11 …….. $2,997.56
12 …….. $3,035.13
13 …….. $3,072.70
14 …….. $3,110.28
15 …….. $3,147.85
16 …….. $3,185.43
17 …….. $3,223.00
18 …….. $3,260.58
19 …….. $3,298.15
20 …….. $3,335.73
21 …….. $3,373.30
22 …….. $3,410.87
23 …….. $3,448.45
24 …….. $3,486.02
25 …….. $3,523.60
26 …….. $3,561.17
27 …….. $3,598.75
28 …….. $3,636.32
29 …….. $3,673.90
30 …….. $3,711.47
31 …….. $3,749.04
32 …….. $3,786.62
33 …….. $3,824.19
34 …….. $3,861.77
35 …….. $3,899.34
36 …….. $3,936.92
37 …….. $3,974.49
38 …….. $4,012.07
39 …….. $4,049.64
40 …….. $4,087.22
41 …….. $4,124.79
42 …….. $4,162.36
43 …….. $4,199.94
44 …….. $4,237.51
45 …….. $4,275.09

 

[WeAAsles]

that's whole thing...why are we framing every sentence with a question mark?? how can they (twu) not know how many members are entitled to this $85 million?

a brief Q & A memo would have done wonders. i know i would ask that question. to those putting out such info, maybe they would have decided NOT to ask themselves that question and NOT print the answer?

I’m sure that they “people” let’s say Mike Mays if he wanted to could ask/look and see exactly how many members and former members are entitled to something. Some people may have died though and left no beneficiary.

I’m not sure why though we need to know or have that exact number before the checks start arriving in our mailboxes? What exactly do we derive out of having that info? More clutter for Bob to come up with crazy, kooky Mathematical formulations?

 

[WeAAsles]

I'll post this with the appropriate step raises, but still based on 80 million. Just because the weez gave me a hard time....just kidding.
years
of
service
1 …….. $1,789.82
2 …….. $1,889.86
3 …….. $2,001.20
4 …….. $2,111.87
5 …….. $2,224.54
6 …….. $2,335.87
7 …….. $2,446.55
8 …….. $2,559.21
9 …….. $2,670.55
10 …….. $2,959.98
11 …….. $2,997.56
12 …….. $3,035.13
13 …….. $3,072.70
14 …….. $3,110.28
15 …….. $3,147.85
16 …….. $3,185.43
17 …….. $3,223.00
18 …….. $3,260.58
19 …….. $3,298.15
20 …….. $3,335.73
21 …….. $3,373.30
22 …….. $3,410.87
23 …….. $3,448.45
24 …….. $3,486.02
25 …….. $3,523.60
26 …….. $3,561.17
27 …….. $3,598.75
28 …….. $3,636.32
29 …….. $3,673.90
30 …….. $3,711.47
31 …….. $3,749.04
32 …….. $3,786.62
33 …….. $3,824.19
34 …….. $3,861.77
35 …….. $3,899.34
36 …….. $3,936.92
37 …….. $3,974.49
38 …….. $4,012.07
39 …….. $4,049.64
40 …….. $4,087.22
41 …….. $4,124.79
42 …….. $4,162.36
43 …….. $4,199.94
44 …….. $4,237.51
45 …….. $4,275.09

You see what I mean Crema. You got Bob off and running again.

Will someone please sit on this guy.

 

[bob@las-AA]

The wording told to me on the high number was that they were “entitled” to collect something out of the equity distribution. There may have been a ton of people who weren’t entitled to receive much at all.

Don’t forget even those EBO people got and will still get something because two pieces of that original distribution had to do with a Maintenance 757 grievance and a Medical settlement grievance. The 23,000 number probably comes from people who retired even years before the BK but worked at AA when those issues took place?

Sorry weez 23000 is wrong, it's 20324, and I did fire off a e-mail to the author of that letter, and cc-ed all the heads of the locals, Fa did respond, and a new letter can out, although it didn't reflect the correct number of eligible members. And the EBO people get nothing.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

bob, maybe you would know:

- if this DD check is taxed and then the gross is added to your 2017 income, are in we in fact getting double-taxed? we did 'pay' the taxes up to $22-$23 IPO price.

 

[bob@las-AA]

You see what I mean Crema. You got Bob off and running again.

Will someone please sit on this guy.

When I was hired, the union failed to tell me about the prefunding, or anything for that matter, so I can't fight for what I didn't participate in, but the equity! It's gloves off buddy.

 

[bob@las-AA]

bob, maybe you would know:

- if this DD check is taxed and then the gross is added to your 2017 income, are in we in fact getting double-taxed? we did 'pay' the taxes up to $22-$23 IPO price.

The on the DD check, we would be taxes as income, back then we were the face value of the distribution, and then taxed for any gains if you kept all your shares, to avoid this is to special elect 100% to your 401.